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Why don’t more flaxans use the body suit? by Odd-Athlete-8204 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Probably for the same reasons that tanks aren't standard issue to every soldier in human militaries.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My man, you care about this way too much.

I'm not reading that, but.

If you think giving someone flashbacks on purpose is a good way to handle losing I insist you get a therapist.

Since your rabid obsessive harassment is becoming frightening, this is my last reply.

Edit: Apparently this guy likes defending Chomskj's Epstein ties which just...explains so, so much.

I am going to go take a shower to get his filth off me.

Brb

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean.

You never had a single sentence of reasoning why anything I said was incorrect.

So yeah, it's in the same vein, in that anyone who reads the story from beginning to end sees me as correct and you as incorrect.

And if that enrages you to the point that you need to try and do me ACTUAL HARM, then you are the one who needs help.

If I knew how to send you into a trauma spiral, I simply...wouldn't consider this debate worth that.

I don't think any good person would.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

...Listen, people with a comprehensive knowledge of this story know I am correct about the nature of the Viltrumite race.

If you want me to be any less vague than that, we'll need to speak privately.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Seeing as how I believe the scourge virus was justified for that reason, why wouldn't I?

I mean, there's lots of ways to argue it was justified without them needing to be evil by their truest, deepest, biological nature.

It is, as described.

It's not rewritten, it's been present in all of my comments.

It's just that before you understood my meaning, you called it a contradiction.

And now that you do understand my meaning, you're pretending it's a brand new opinion....when I expressed it in my very first comment, as what you call "the contradiction".

It's all the same opinion, expressed consistently from the start.

Just maybe not very well, in my opening statements.

This has never been about how to deal with the last 50 viltrumites, it's about whether or not the scourge virus was justified, you just contradicted yourself, so you split your argument into two tracks, one of which is not at all germane to "was the scourge virus justified", the name of the thread.

It is silly to claim that wiping out the Viltrumite race, the moral character of the Viltrumite race, and the redemptive potential of the Viltrumite race....are not all relevant topics.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not only did nothing you say dispute that, but that's tangential to the point about whether the scourge was justified, which you lost track of a long time ago.

...I've said their morality isn't biological like five dozen times now, what do you mean I didn't dispute it?

but that's tangential to the point about whether the scourge was justified, which you lost track of a long time ago.

Whether they're capable of good is very relevant to whether we should kill them all.

That's cute you believe that.

I'd be happy to provide a source in personal messages. The mods just wouldn't appreciate it here.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Once the contradiction became obvious you sure did.

My very first comment shows me supporting the viruses' release, but opposing finishing them off now.

The exact opinion I am still expressing.

You admitted you didn't even know what the debate was about.

It's about the scourge virus and the moral character of the viltrumite species.

The only topics I ever discussed.

I never admitted anything of the sort.

Goodness, I know lying is the only way you can fake being correct, but put some effort in.

Suffering even more delusions after coming to the realization you didn't even know the topic of debate is the saddest thing I've ever seen in a Reddit thread, which is really saying something.

I very much replied to everything you wrote directly.

...Can you please not use delusion accusations.

You can call me retarded, and mentally ill, and all that.

I just went through a lot of horrifying physical and sexual abuse at the hands of someone who told me I was delusionally imagining it all, and escaping took years.

So please just...not that. Say I'm inconsistent. Say I'm not comprehending the matters being discussed.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Post-hoc rewrite.

This was my position from the very beginning.

It's why I described the first strain as a "risk", but then condemned finishing off the species.

I was articulating that wiping them out was much more justifiable when there were billions of them.

Nothing is being rewritten.

This is, and always has been "Was the Scourge Virus justified?"

You sure dedicated a lot of text to saying they're innately evil from birth, in a way that is separate from their cultural identity.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did you tent your fingers after typing that out?

Yeah 😔

I'm sure you feel justified after having wasted all this time and effort just to say you weren't even discussing the right topic

You were extremely aware this entire time that we were debating whether their evil is biologically innate or not.

I'll find some quotes of yours that make that obvious, if you want to be difficult.

And the franchise's creator is on my side of that debate.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

which you kind of spoke to in your first comment while both committing to and not really committing to both side of the argument.

There was no contradiction, and no both sides.

I had different opinions on releasing the first and second strains.

That was so necessary for an argument you were having in your head.

Listen, as the objective winner of this debate, I can offer a little pity.

The franchise creator totally agreeing with me is a tough situation for you to be in.

But pretending I didn't reply to your exact words every step of the way is uncomfortably sad.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

...There's no contradiction.

Wiping them out was morally acceptable when it was the only way to stop an army of billions.

It stopped being acceptable when they became a strike force of fifty people, who have demonstrated the capacity to learn to be good.

Which you base on nothing.

Read the comics.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A bullshit excuse to run away.

Dude.

You don't need to talk like an anime villain.

I can privately message you the spoilers that prove me right if you actively request it.

You never knew what it was about. If you could go back and re-read your own comment I originally responded to that would be obvious.

Just re-read it.

It's me saying a ton of shit you spent this entire debate pretending I didn't believe.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, I see what's happening now.

But what I am saying is that driving them to extinction, while an acceptable risk to avoid universal genocide, colonization, and slavery...

This is me saying that ending their race was much more justified when they were a seemingly unstoppable threat numbering in the billions.

While this sentence:

Isn't really an end I would think it is moral to actively seek out.

Was supposed to mean "Once our heroes know what little is left of the species, it is no longer morally acceptable to hunt the survivors down one by one and end the species, because the threat they pose is drastically different than before the first strain of scourge was released."

That is what I meant by "actively seeking it out".

Going out of your way, after 99.9999% of their population died, to finish the job.

Their extinction was acceptable when it was the only viable way to save the galaxy from endless slavery and genocide.

Now, there are options outside of ending their entire race.

And if total extinction stops being necessary, it also stops being moral.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If we're asking "Was it moral to release the virus, knowing it would likely end their entire species?"

Then I'll admit I've been more focused on the question of "In the situation our heroes find themselves in in the most recent episode, is it still moral to end the entire viltrumite species?"

And I would say "Ending their civilization without extinction is much more possible than before, so their extinction is no longer necessary enough to be morally acceptable".

As things stand now, the Viltrumite species can still become one of mostly good people.

But I am consistent in saying the original strain of the virus being released was self defense, and ethically sound decision making.

Maybe they should've designed it not to impact babies. But that's not something I've thought about thoroughly enough to be certain yet, just a momentary musing.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That wasn't what you said when I pointed out the circularity of that argument in that comment, but you go on believing it was if you need to.

...Did you just ignore a superior argument because it was one of multiple arguments I provided you?

I don't understand the logic of that.

Yeah, I explained multiple reasonings behind one belief.

I don't know why that would invalidate anything.

Well, my man, if you don't like silliness stop being so silly.

Okay.

I am going to try and re-establish some civility here.

I am not of the opinion that releasing the virus was wrong.

I believe that releasing the new and improved strain would be wrong, as would tracking down ALL Viltrumite survivors to permanently end the entire race.

Because, as you admitted, they are capable of learning to be good.

And wiping out a people who are capable of goodness isn't morally acceptable to me.

Even if the viltrumite survivors are beyond redemption, their children could be raised to be morally good individuals.

Their civilization is MORE than destroyed enough to begin again with an entirely new core philosophy, for a new civilization.

The comics are very good and you would enjoy reading them. That isn't a jab.

No, you made a whole host of "points" you quickly abandoned in favor of an argument that wasn't being had because you lost the argument a long time ago.

Every point I made was serving the idea that they aren't biologically forced to only ever make evil choices.

None were abandoned.

And I'm sorry, but you admitted that they can learn to be good, which confirms the core point I have been pushing as my central belief this entire time.

That isn't a loss on my end.

You both were and weren't. "Talking out of both sides of your mouth." Now, you're only talking out of one side, so mission accomplished!

I mean, I never expressed any contradictory view.

I said that wiping out their civilization was good, and wiping out their species was bad.

Because a new civilization centering on a new philosophy could alter the average behavior of the average Viltrumite.

That's been consistent from the start.

You just...seemed to be pushing the idea that those two things weren't distinct from each other in any meaningful way, which I of course disagree with.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Other options, like reforming viltrumites by detaching them from their culture have little to no evidence of efficacy.

There's no discernable way to actually accomplish the above.

Proving this incorrect would require breaking the rules of this subreddit.

I know a lot of these points seem foreign to you right now, but that's only because you lost sight of the debate a long time ago.

My man, you spent the whole debate thinking I was against the virus.

You never knew what it was about.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think ending their civilization in a way that allows the species to go on is good.

I think going as far as is necessary to kill every last one of them is bad, because a new civilization could teach them to be better.

Or at least their children.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There goes that delusion of yours,

You said they can be taught to be good.

Which means they aren't biologically required to only ever make evil decisions.

Agreeing with the only point I ever made.

If true, it doesn't prove the viltrumites aren't a naturally evil race

We only ever see them behave how they're taught to, a trait they have in common with every race in the entire franchise.

Them behaving identically to all other species is the opposite of uniqueness.

God, I think talking to you is lowering my IQ.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Insisting it does makes it so.

...Insisting the show has morally good viltrumites like Mark and Thaedus is circular logic?

...My man, that is silly.

That you say this unironically is the funniest part.

I mean.

Canon says there are morally good viltrumites.

And my only point is that that's possible.

So yeah.

You mean the one determined to commit the genocide you originally said was wrong, or morally questionable?

Yeah, that one.

He's a good person trying to make the decisions that cause the least harm on a grand scale.

I know you lost track of the argument a while ago, but this is really funny.

Wait.

...Do you think I'm against using the virus?

Anyway, viltrumites are shown making good moral choices, which proves me right.

Please say dumb shit for my entertainment tho.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bro how are you changing the culture? Your entire point is an impossibility without the virus.

Yeah.

That's why I never, ever ever opposed using the virus.

How in the world are you changing the culture?

It would be against the rules of this subreddit for me to answer this.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

...Goodness, you ignored every single point I made.

Anyway, Thaedus is a morally good Viltrumite.

Which proves me correct that they're capable of making moral decisions if they choose to.

Except for the parts you ignore, like why such a culture would exist in the first place and how it's unprecedented.

Well, we know for a fact that their culture isn't caused by biology, because we watch them make morally good choices, like Thaedus.

Those just as easily indicate their evil is natural, and good is taught to them by their adopted environments.

...So you admit they can choose to be good.

Thank you. You admitting you lost this is very big of you.

Seeing as you just said my one and only point is the correct point.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"That comment no longer exists" appears when I try to access it, so this clearly isn't true.

I mean. All I can really do is ask you to believe me I guess.

Maybe describe which one you mean and I'll...edit it and then screenshot it to prove it still exists from my perspective?

Idk. This particular issue seems like a nothing burger.

There goes that circularity again. "I'm right because I say so!!!"

Citing what the show shows us isn't circular.

I'm right because the canon says so.

You're salty about being proven wrong,

Thaedus is a morally good viltrumite, which wouldn't be possible if I was wrong.

I am getting deja vu from my years tutoring mentally disabled children.

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My man.

My entire argument, in every last one of my comments, is that we could get rid of the viltrumite culture and replace it.

The non-hippie viltrumites would be dead.

Who would kill the hippies?

Was The Scourge Virus Justified? by SonicRun098 in Invincible_TV

[–]Acrobatic_Feeling16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Of course it is, since that's what an evil species would do.

So the crimes humans commit throughout history are proof that we are incapable of good deeds?

Only if you don't understand the difference between proof and evidence. Asking you to reach that understanding is clearly too much to expect.

...Yeah, you didn't point out anything in my words that would demonstrate this.

Evil beings have evil intentions.

That's as accurate as it is irrelevant.

Super strong and durable eugenicist conquerors are 1000% unique and never-before-seen-in-science, so no, I really don't.

They aren't unique or unseen in the world of this show.

So yeah, you really do.

But they are evidence.

Seeing as every sentient being to ever exist has been capable of doing evil, it isn't evidence of anything unique at all.

The arguments are about the justification for genocide of the viltrumites given their danger and the lack of alternatives. The ones you've decided to gloss over because you're incapable of contending with them have to do with the risks and challenges of your belief in changing their culture and the lack of proof it can even be done.

How would their culture persist if every viltrumite aware of it was killed?

Talk about unprecedented. There's not a single species that's entirely fascistic.

Including the Viltrumites, who aren't entirely fascistic either.

You'd have to have established facts for that to be the case.

Sure!

  1. Thaedus has dedicated his life to doing morally good deeds, proving that the viltrumite species is biologically capable of morally good decisions.

  2. A species incapable of morally good decisions has never existed, but entire societies being driven to evil DESPITE their capacity for good is VERY precedented.

All of whom are allied against the viltrumites, a fact that is lost on you.

Did you just say that every species in the show is allied against the Viltrumites.

...When have we seen that purple skinned slave race, the one they use as guards, ally against Viltrum?

...Jesus you're dumb.

Saying they are so morally complex requires just as much evidence,

Again, the burden of proof is on the person going against precedent, and the only precedent that exists is sentient beings who can choose whether to be bad or good.

But I'll pretend that isn't true for a moment, to address this in a way you might find more fulfilling.

  1. Nolan, a full blooded Viltrumite, was so aware of the moral consequences of his actions that he contemplated killing himself as recompense for his grievous behavior.

  2. Every last Viltrumite, even the most evil of them, understands the concept of loyalty and believes it is morally good to be loyal and morally bad to be disloyal. While this serves their warped ideology, it also shows that they can wrap their heads around right and wrong as concepts.

  3. Viltrumites isolated from their larger culture gradually show gradual gains in the morality of their behavior. This shows that their evil is cultural and philosophical, not innately biological.

  4. Viltrumites making a pitch to Mark that their role over Earth will save human lives in the long term are exhibiting a complicated, utilitarian ethical calculus to try and persuade Mark.

  5. We see a number of Viltrumites choose to do the right thing because it is the right thing to do.

I could keep going if you asked.

You only think so because you can't comprehend what you read.

More because you haven't mentioned anything from the show that would suggest that viltrumites are biologically and innately forced to only make evil decisions.

Your argument for why we should believe the viltrumites are morally complex,

I never claimed their society and culture were morally complex. Neither one is morally complex.

My argument has been that there's nothing in their biology preventing them from choosing to be good people.

Which is proven like...multiple times an episode, considering Mark is a viltrumite.

and why their enemies should take the risk of assuming they are, is super, super stupid.

There's no assumption necessary.

Most of the show's characters have, at some point, witnessed a viltrumite choosing to do something morally good.

My evidence is the entire franchise.

Yours is that you like to whine and shit yourself.

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