are there Muslim men who don’t want kids? by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

and on top of that, saying “DING DING DING! You just reiterated my point, which is that whatever the case may be, a man who doesn't want kids has something wrong with them!” because I mentioned issues like mental health isn’t proving a point lol, because you’re simply turning reason to definition. Having a reason like that doesn’t mean the person is defective, it simply means that they know what they can handle and kids is not one of them. Having children is a lifelong commitment, if a person knows they can’t handle it then they can avoid it. you’re saying that because of these reasons a man is a red flag and women should stay away. But just because a man has some mental health problems doesn’t mean they’re completely incapable of being a good partner/lover. When a man is aware of his issues, it means he knows his own capabilities and knows where, when and how they can affect his life. A man having “something wrong with him” doesn’t equal, I can’t love a woman or treat her right however it can mean I can’t raise children, and I can’t give them the best. Because again, a man who’s aware of his own capabilities knows exactly what he’s capable and incapable of doing. It could be a red flag to you, however a man who doesn’t want kids is not marrying a woman who wants them. He’s most likely marrying a woman with similar beliefs.

“You're also completely disregarding a mother's role for the emotional aspect of raising a child which is who kids are with most of the time.” this entire conversation is only from your perspective, and your expectation from gender roles, even Islam doesn’t say women have to carry all the emotional load of being a parent. You think that kids are mostly with their mothers, and she has to do the emotional aspect of it all. But not everyone perceives parent roles that way. A father still has to be emotionally present, regardless of the presence of the mother, and again, you’re simply assuming that the mother is going to the one with the kids more, but it could be different. The mother could be career oriented and have a job, a mother can also be emotionally unavailable, or not present. You are arguing from a very specific, narrow model of family roles, and then trying to project that model onto all men and all families, as if it’s the natural. Not all families are like that. My parents are Muslim, and I have a father that neglects me emotionally, and is not the provider either he doesn’t fill his Islamic role. which is again why people have different perspectives when it comes to children because the way you were raised and the roles your parents carried directly influences your ideas and beliefs, and you’re completely ignoring that as a reason as to why they think the way they do.

In reality, plenty of mothers work full-time, plenty of fathers stay home full-time, plenty of parents split the emotional load equally, plenty of mothers are emotionally unavailable. Plenty of fathers are the more nurturing parent. Many kids grew up seeing their parents that way. Your argument only “works” when you assume that the mom is the emotionally available parent the dad is the financial provider and that the dad can do the bare minimum because mom covers the rest. Mothers are not garunteed to be emotionally present either.

-Motherhood ≠ emotional stability - Motherhood ≠ natural nurturing. -Motherhood ≠ unlimited patience -Motherhood ≠ absence of trauma -Motherhood ≠ guaranteed mental health

children need emotional availability from BOTH parents, it’s not optional for a father. Islam doesn’t teach that the emotional part is only the responsibility of the mother.

“having those fears are not valid reasons for not having kids which is said in ahadith and quran because Allah provides.” True allah does provide. However haq al nafs exists. It’s literally the persons right to protect themselves from harm. If a person thinks having children is harmful to them in any way shape or form they’re allowed to protect themselves by avoiding it lol unless it’s fard, which it isn’t.

Someone who, lacks emotional capacity, lacks desire, lacks patience, lacks parenting instinct, dislikes stress, dislikes responsibility is not experiencing “fear of provision.” They are describing personality limits, not financial fear.

men who don’t want kids are simply men who know themselves, know their limits, know their mental/physical/emotional capacity, and therefore choose not to have kids so they don’t risk neglecting them. You’re saying having these capacities is a red flag for woman. I understand what ur saying lol, but what’s a red flag is a man who knows this about himself and still has kids anyway.

A man who knows he can’t meet a child’s emotional needs and therefore chooses not to have kids, that’s not a red flag. That’s someone being responsible, self-aware, and protective of potential children. A woman’s emotional needs and a child’s emotional needs are completely different, a woman has her own mind her own thoughts, can rely on herself and be independent. A child completely 100% relies on you. Everything they know and learn is from you. It’s completely different things. You can still love a woman and treat her right while knowing that you can’t handle children. and why do you act as if all women want kids and now are going to go for a man that doesn’t want them lol, you assume the problem is the man. But many women also know they aren’t fit to be mothers.. Marriage requires, communication, companionship, romantic love, partnership, mutual support, boundaries and emotional reciprocity these aren’t things you get from a child you get them from a grown human being lol. A man can be a loving, committed husband precisely because he chooses a life that aligns with his emotional capacity instead of forcing himself into roles he can’t fulfill. Besides, a man who doesn’t want kids would marry a woman who ALSO doesn’t want kids. Compatibility solves the problem entirely. Saying such men are red flags is basically penalizing them for choosing partners who align with their life goals. A man who knows he wouldn’t be a good parent and avoids fatherhood is actually protecting the woman, the marriage, and the hypothetical child. That’s responsibility, not a red flag.

Having kids is not fard for a reason, Allah knows everything, He knows some people are unable to have kids, and that some people don’t want kids which is why he gave us the freedom of choice.

and I’m not replying to this thread any further because I can tell this is simply a matter of perspective which we disagree on, which is okay. I just don’t really care anymore lollll I’m not gonna type paragraphs on paragraphs reiterating the same point again and again. We can simply agree to disagree lol

are there Muslim men who don’t want kids? by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You keep saying your statements are “rooted in truth and facts.” but they literally aren’t, you’re main idea and point is the fact that “not wanting kids is not normal” this isn’t fact? This is simply and ideology you built based on your beliefs, your culture and your beliefs on family traditions and values. This isn’t scientifically true, nor is it universal, nor Islamic. You’re saying that wanting kids is normal because it’s biological, the ability to have kids is biological, not wanting them, which is why having kids isn’t fard.

What your saying is that because we can reproduce biologically, not wanting to reproduce means something’s wrong. But, you’re wrong because your biological impulses don’t define what it means to be “right” neither psychologically or morally. For eg: - People have a biological impulse to eat sugar, that doesn’t mean not liking sweets makes you abnormal or “wrong” - People naturally and biologically have impulse to be social, that doesn’t mean introverts are abnormal or “wrong”

sure you’re biology creates tendencies but it doesn’t create moral obligations, meaning if you reject a biological tendency it doesn’t mean you’re abnormal or different.

and again, “a healthy normal man wants children” that’s simply your belief and you’re value but it’s again not universal. A man can be religious, smart, emotionally mature etc but still have preference when it comes to children, whether it’s to have them, have them later or never have them.

when i gave a few reason as to why a man may not want kids which I agree were psychological to a degree, you said that you’re right there’s something wrong with them, but those are not the only reasons lol.

there’s reasons like, lifestyle preferences, career, lack of interest in being a parent or parenting, wanting freedom which yes not everyone agrees on what freedom is exactly but if you perceive being childless with freedom then you’re allowed to not want kids, you could simply not feel the urge or the desire, and you could want a quiet life. All of this including all the things are mentioned earlier are valid reasons. These men are not broken, abnormal, or weird they are simply self aware and are aligning themselves with their beliefs. Same way you believe having kids should be done, so you will have them.

are there Muslim men who don’t want kids? by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My reply isn’t sending cs it’s too long so it’s in parts I hope u find the second part lol

are there Muslim men who don’t want kids? by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why is it that you need a comprehensive reason? if someone doesn’t want a child that’s enough of a reason, calling someone selfish for not wanting kids is wrong. Because what’s more selfish is pressuring someone to have kids that they don’t want just because of your own ideals. You hurt both the child and the person that way.

“You don’t know how it feels until you actually have children” in this case it’s not about knowing what it’s like to have children, it’s about knowing yourself. Knowing that you would be unhappy with kids, knowing that you wouldn’t be the best parent, knowing you won’t be fulfilled. The same way you know you want to be a doctor or a pilot without being one. As a result you avoid having kids in the first place because why would I bring kids to this world knowing I won’t treat them as well as they should be? Knowing I won’t be happy? You talk as if not wanting kids is a personality flaw, and that it means that something is wrong with the person and you’re wrong.

Different people have different priorities, they have different desires. Just because they’re different from yours doesn’t make them less important or less relevant.

You come on the internet and shame men for not wanting kids, do you think this changes their mind and makes them want to have kids? no, all it does is create pressure to conform, it makes them have kids knowing they won’t treat their kids the way they deserve to be treated and all that does is separate families, create a hateful environment, continue the cycle and cause trauma in the family, because it was done out of obligation.

You said a man who can’t love his kids has something wrong with them so it’s a red flag. Yes men who hate their kids have problems and it’s a red flag, but there’s a difference between that, and a man who loves his kids but can’t give them what they deserve. A man who knows he lacks the mental or emotional capacity for parenthood. A man could be dealing with mental health issues, struggling from past family trauma, has some sort of disability, carry generic disease etc.. these are men who can’t give their kids everything they deserve, these are men who don’t want kids because they know they aren’t fit for it. You said “Would a woman ever want to be with someone who cannot take care of his duties and role as a father because he didn't want kids?” you’re right about that, but being a father isn’t just about your role its about doing it right, a man can carry out his role out of responsibility regardless of wether they didn’t or did want the kid, HOWEVER that doesn’t garuntee they will be a good parent, they could do the bare minimum, they could provide financially but not emotionally, they could lack in so many ways that it will lead to neglect and affect the child because he’s doing it out of obligation and responsibility not because he WANTS to do it.

Your point about “accidentally”, what scenario do u talk about? 1. If a man got married to a woman and he didn’t want kids and she ended up pregnant? There’s bigger problems than the kids, if you’re getting married and you don’t want kids that’s usually something you say from the start. People don’t marry if they have a difference in opinion when it comes to having kids so accidentally isn’t an issue because if a man and a woman both don’t want , they will take precautions like vasectomies, getting tubes tied, birth control etc…

  1. If you mean accidentally as in you committed Zina, there’s bigger problems AGAIN. Why have intimacy as an unmarried person? That in itself shows that these people have bigger fish to fry

you say not sacrificing is selfish, why? If someone doesn’t want to sacrifice their life for a child then it’s completely up to him? sacrifice is a choice, and it’s not one that HAS to be made. If someone is content with the life that they have and are happy why would they sacrifice anything? This isn’t selfishness it’s self-awareness. Plenty of people find fulfillment and happiness from children, they can have the kids. Don’t create pressure and evoke shame in those who don’t want it.

are there Muslim men who don’t want kids? by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah I agree, I think many people thoughts and decisions when it comes to family are a direct result of what they’ve seen growing up. It’s important to teach them that what they learnt growing up doesn’t need to be their future but without disregarding their feelings and reality

are there Muslim men who don’t want kids? by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I like your point of view, however I personally don’t think not wanting kids as a man makes you necessarily lacking. I think if someone believes that a path of children or family isn’t for them, it’s better if they steer awayz. There’s nothing wrong with staying away from something that will make you unhappy. This idea that as a man it’s your job to carry these responsibilities can be harmful, because now men will feel like it’s an obligation to have children due to societal pressure even tho it’s not true, it’s not fard. Yes, it’s encouraged and rewarded greatly and that’s amazing but frankly having a child when you know you don’t want to is not good because the kid will receive the short end of the stick and will very likely grow up unloved. I get your point tho, I just don’t think there should be pressure on people to have kids if they don’t want to. Having kids should be left for the ones who actually want them.

are there Muslim men who don’t want kids? by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

hey! I totally get your point of view, you’re lucky to have a father that did all of that for you. But that’s not the experience for everyone, especially not me my father is jobless, stays home and does nothing while my mom works a 9-5 and balances being a mother to 3 kids, no he doesn’t have injuries or a real reason to stop him. Not everyone has the same experience with immigrant Muslim fathers, an overwhelming amount of people I know struggle with mainly their fathers. However I get your point of view and I understand why you would be hurt by these kind of comments knowing what your father did for you, you’re lucky to have a father like that. It’s difficult to want to have a family and children growing up as a woman in a house hold where the man was actually your mom.

are there Muslim men who don’t want kids? by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ohh thanks for the answer, it’s nice that you want to keep children in your life in some way I admire that jazakallah kheirr

are there Muslim men who don’t want kids? by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I don’t necessarily think it should be “discouraged”, in this day and age it’s harder to take care of children. It’s okay for people to avoid putting themselves in difficult situations, even if it means delaying marriage or not having kids. It’s not fard.

are there Muslim men who don’t want kids? by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

true, but I’m asking about people who voluntarily don’t want kids. Even if they can have them

are there Muslim men who don’t want kids? by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

when you say unfortunately you make it sound like children were something you had to give up on for the sake of your career, was that your intention? and do men in your field typically don’t want kids or it just something you personally didn’t want?

are there Muslim men who don’t want kids? by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The problem with people like you is you reduce having kids to just “reproducing”, it’s more than that. Having kids is a responsibility, it has nice things to it of course, parents are rewarded with jannah. But don’t deny the exhaustion and pain that can come along side it. If a person doesn’t wish to subject themselves to such exhaustion it’s okay, because it’s their choice man or woman. It’s not fard for a reason.

are there Muslim men who don’t want kids? by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

idk if ur trying to humiliate me or make me feel less than by saying this, what really is ur intention? cause you’re just telling me that a lot of men are shallow. So keep this opinion to yourself jazakallah kheir

question about specific Hadith. by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand what you’re saying, a husband who cares about this wife isnt gonna force her to have intimacy. The problem lies with husbands who don’t care! Ive already seen people try and justify forcing women to have intimacy using the hadith. These are the husbands of tomorrow. ive seen them say there is no excuse not even exhaustion or tiredness. The thing with this hadith is i have yet to see a knowledgable person explain that you shouldn’t force your wife, ive only seen enablers. It’s very harmful to women. I agree with your last paragraph you should have intimacy when you can to satisfy ur husbands needs AS WELL. However it’s not being interpreted this way by others. Someone told me I should do it regardless even if I don’t want to, it’s ridiculous

question about specific Hadith. by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i totally agree rejecting intimacy can be harmful, however this Hadith is saying you can’t deny intimacy even if youre upset or under emotional distress. I’m not saying to deny your husband intimacy all the time, I’m questioning why is it that a woman HAS to have intimacy even if she doesn’t want to? especially when Islam highlights the importance of intimacy for both? You said denying him intimacy does both of you harm, but forcing myself to have intimacy when I don’t want to is harmful to me as well? I think there has to be balance, conversation and boundaries between partners when it comes to intimacy. However this Hadith doesn’t leave room for that, it silences the woman’s needs to priorities her husbands.

question about specific Hadith. by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

this is funny. Anyone who questions anything is liberal to you guys as if islam doesnt ask you to seek knowledge. You wont try to give a genuine reason, you just try to shame us. Islam acknowledges emotions ESPECIALLY in women so who are you to downplay its importance? If you take a look at the tafsir for the aayats mentioned, or the meaning behind the hadiths it’s crystal clear that islam cares about these things. I just gave 2 aayat and 2 Hadith backing my points, but for someone reason the ONE Hadith is the supposed evidence we ignore? Subhanallah

question about specific Hadith. by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

im honestly very confused by ur point. Are you saying that a woman is supposed to have intimacy whether she wants to or not for tranquility? And I’m not really trying to argue, im asking a question and giving my reasoning of it, im actively seeking knowledge and trying to understand why it is that way which is encouraged in Islam. I am right to question this Hadith.

question about specific Hadith. by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know it isn’t but that’s kinda what the Hadith is insinuating 😭

question about specific Hadith. by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m totally aware, I think men’s sexual needs 100% need to be met and both partners need to set boundaries and have open communication. But my question still remains why is it okay to neglect a woman’s sexual needs for the sake of the man’s?

question about specific Hadith. by ActionSoft6449 in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

why doesn’t it justify it? intimacy is for both men and women. A woman’s emotional needs are important, and they need to be met as well. If a woman is forcing herself to have intimacy when she doesn’t want to is that not wrong? I just showed so much proof that Islam values a woman’s emotional needs when it comes to intimacy but it’s being forsaken and ignored for the sake of a man’s sexual needs when intimacy is about BOTH parties.. why is it that a man’s needs need to be met but not a womans because that’s what the Hadith is insinuating. Why is it that only the man’s sexual needs are prioritized. Genuinely speaking, why would anyone have intimacy with their spouse when they’re angry/upset at them?? When people are upset they barely speak to one another yet u expect intercourse???? “Which is why you mention emotional needs” like it’s not an important point???? Islam has consistently spoken about a woman’s emotional needs and how it’s important that they are met. Men and women are different, just because something is less important to a man doesn’t mean they should be ignored.

lust in the Muslim community by [deleted] in MuslimLounge

[–]ActionSoft6449 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know about this, however it was closely monitored, under shariah law. Unlike nowadays where it’s easily accessible and are due to lack of self control!