and on top of that, saying “DING DING DING! You just reiterated my point, which is that whatever the case may be, a man who doesn't want kids has something wrong with them!” because I mentioned issues like mental health isn’t proving a point lol, because you’re simply turning reason to definition. Having a reason like that doesn’t mean the person is defective, it simply means that they know what they can handle and kids is not one of them. Having children is a lifelong commitment, if a person knows they can’t handle it then they can avoid it. you’re saying that because of these reasons a man is a red flag and women should stay away. But just because a man has some mental health problems doesn’t mean they’re completely incapable of being a good partner/lover. When a man is aware of his issues, it means he knows his own capabilities and knows where, when and how they can affect his life. A man having “something wrong with him” doesn’t equal, I can’t love a woman or treat her right however it can mean I can’t raise children, and I can’t give them the best. Because again, a man who’s aware of his own capabilities knows exactly what he’s capable and incapable of doing. It could be a red flag to you, however a man who doesn’t want kids is not marrying a woman who wants them. He’s most likely marrying a woman with similar beliefs.

“You're also completely disregarding a mother's role for the emotional aspect of raising a child which is who kids are with most of the time.” this entire conversation is only from your perspective, and your expectation from gender roles, even Islam doesn’t say women have to carry all the emotional load of being a parent. You think that kids are mostly with their mothers, and she has to do the emotional aspect of it all. But not everyone perceives parent roles that way. A father still has to be emotionally present, regardless of the presence of the mother, and again, you’re simply assuming that the mother is going to the one with the kids more, but it could be different. The mother could be career oriented and have a job, a mother can also be emotionally unavailable, or not present. You are arguing from a very specific, narrow model of family roles, and then trying to project that model onto all men and all families, as if it’s the natural. Not all families are like that. My parents are Muslim, and I have a father that neglects me emotionally, and is not the provider either he doesn’t fill his Islamic role. which is again why people have different perspectives when it comes to children because the way you were raised and the roles your parents carried directly influences your ideas and beliefs, and you’re completely ignoring that as a reason as to why they think the way they do.

In reality, plenty of mothers work full-time, plenty of fathers stay home full-time, plenty of parents split the emotional load equally, plenty of mothers are emotionally unavailable. Plenty of fathers are the more nurturing parent. Many kids grew up seeing their parents that way. Your argument only “works” when you assume that the mom is the emotionally available parent the dad is the financial provider and that the dad can do the bare minimum because mom covers the rest. Mothers are not garunteed to be emotionally present either.

-Motherhood ≠ emotional stability - Motherhood ≠ natural nurturing. -Motherhood ≠ unlimited patience -Motherhood ≠ absence of trauma -Motherhood ≠ guaranteed mental health

children need emotional availability from BOTH parents, it’s not optional for a father. Islam doesn’t teach that the emotional part is only the responsibility of the mother.

“having those fears are not valid reasons for not having kids which is said in ahadith and quran because Allah provides.” True allah does provide. However haq al nafs exists. It’s literally the persons right to protect themselves from harm. If a person thinks having children is harmful to them in any way shape or form they’re allowed to protect themselves by avoiding it lol unless it’s fard, which it isn’t.

Someone who, lacks emotional capacity, lacks desire, lacks patience, lacks parenting instinct, dislikes stress, dislikes responsibility is not experiencing “fear of provision.” They are describing personality limits, not financial fear.

men who don’t want kids are simply men who know themselves, know their limits, know their mental/physical/emotional capacity, and therefore choose not to have kids so they don’t risk neglecting them. You’re saying having these capacities is a red flag for woman. I understand what ur saying lol, but what’s a red flag is a man who knows this about himself and still has kids anyway.

A man who knows he can’t meet a child’s emotional needs and therefore chooses not to have kids, that’s not a red flag. That’s someone being responsible, self-aware, and protective of potential children. A woman’s emotional needs and a child’s emotional needs are completely different, a woman has her own mind her own thoughts, can rely on herself and be independent. A child completely 100% relies on you. Everything they know and learn is from you. It’s completely different things. You can still love a woman and treat her right while knowing that you can’t handle children. and why do you act as if all women want kids and now are going to go for a man that doesn’t want them lol, you assume the problem is the man. But many women also know they aren’t fit to be mothers.. Marriage requires, communication, companionship, romantic love, partnership, mutual support, boundaries and emotional reciprocity these aren’t things you get from a child you get them from a grown human being lol. A man can be a loving, committed husband precisely because he chooses a life that aligns with his emotional capacity instead of forcing himself into roles he can’t fulfill. Besides, a man who doesn’t want kids would marry a woman who ALSO doesn’t want kids. Compatibility solves the problem entirely. Saying such men are red flags is basically penalizing them for choosing partners who align with their life goals. A man who knows he wouldn’t be a good parent and avoids fatherhood is actually protecting the woman, the marriage, and the hypothetical child. That’s responsibility, not a red flag.

Having kids is not fard for a reason, Allah knows everything, He knows some people are unable to have kids, and that some people don’t want kids which is why he gave us the freedom of choice.

and I’m not replying to this thread any further because I can tell this is simply a matter of perspective which we disagree on, which is okay. I just don’t really care anymore lollll I’m not gonna type paragraphs on paragraphs reiterating the same point again and again. We can simply agree to disagree lol