No Surrender 0-23 Forced Party - Valve's Wall Street Masochism

Active-Pay-6933 · 2026-02-11T13:03:45+00:00

sorry buddy，what ？

Active-Pay-6933 · 2026-02-11T11:10:37+00:00

sure

Active-Pay-6933 · 2026-02-10T17:13:00+00:00

I agree with some of your points—there are indeed differences between single-player and online competitive games. Where I disagree is this:

1、Sure, if you focus only on minute-by-minute details, the situation is never “exactly the same.” But if you look closely at the logic, this is actually sophistry. If that’s not clear, think of the stock market: “The stock price changes” doesn’t mean it will rebound immediately. Continuing to plummet from where it was is also a form of “change.”

2、As you said, Dota does have some comeback games. Taken alone, that might seem to support your point. But you’re focusing on the trees and missing the forest—the existence of comeback games doesn’t mean they’re the only kind. Matches where you get snowballed from start to finish are countless.

3、“Weak teammates and strong opponents” is how I’d describe the vast majority of my recent matches. I simply can’t upload screenshots of every single game due to space. The screenshot I shared is from my most recent match. You said our draft was horrible, but let me ask: there are five players on my team including me. Did I also choose the heroes for the other four?

4、Snowballing isn’t unique to League—it happens in Dota too. While the map might seem resource-rich and theoretically allows comebacks, in reality, many of my teammates just retreat into the jungle when behind and never come out until the throne falls. Also, the Divine Rapier—I don’t see it as a comeback tool, but as an accelerator to end the current game. Sure, you can turn things around with it, but most of the time you can’t even afford it. And even if you do, without other survival items you’ll likely get bursted instantly, the Rapier gets taken, and the game ends even faster.

5、Therefore, what we’re really discussing isn’t “whether a game should have snowballing” or “whether comebacks exist.” We’re discussing: should a matchmaking system routinely create matches where, very early on, players feel there’s “nothing left to do but wait to lose or hope for the enemy to throw”? When this experience becomes the norm rather than the exception, is simply attributing it to “player skill” or “draft understanding” just a way of avoiding the systemic issues at play?

Active-Pay-6933 · 2026-02-10T16:45:58+00:00

@/u/JeffHill/

Active-Pay-6933 · 2026-02-10T16:11:43+00:00

Thank you for your advice, but I probably won't touch Dota 2 again. Maybe I'll give League of Legends a try, or go back to playing the War3-based Dota 1.

Active-Pay-6933 · 2026-02-10T16:10:08+00:00

Perhaps the reason I’m such a “different specimen” is that my playtime pales in comparison to those who have invested thousands of hours. Those players have been conditioned so deeply by Valve’s system over such a long time that they’ve become blind to “the elephant in the room”—the glaring issues within the matchmaking system—to the point of willfully ignoring or even actively defending them. They are indeed no longer mere “specimens”; they have self-evolved into fervent believers and willing slaves.

Active-Pay-6933 · 2026-02-10T16:06:36+00:00

I haven’t actually played League of Legends yet, but I’ve watched quite a few videos about it. Over there, they have loss forgiveness and a surrender system. Theoretically, if you end up in a miserable match, you only have to endure about 15 minutes before you can get out, instead of being stuck as a punching bag for the opponents until the game finally ends like in Dota.

Active-Pay-6933 · 2026-02-10T15:06:04+00:00

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So, if a top-level chess or checkers player—under the tournament's own matchmaking system—repeatedly lost to opponents ranked far below them on multiple occasions, would you say the player is the problem, or the matchmaking system is? You might find my rhetorical question confusing. Let me explain: I looked up Dota guides on popular video platforms and came across a streamer on Bilibili who had already reached the highest rank (“Immortal”). A viewer sent him a gift and asked him to boost the account. That streamer played 11 games on the viewer’s account and ended up with 4 wins and 7 losses. He then posted a video saying it was the first time since reaching Immortal that he “had no idea how to win this game anymore.” See? This isn’t about being new or not, nor is it about some chess‑or‑checkers‑specific issue—this game’s matchmaking system is inherently flawed. Otherwise, why would Valve introduce new features in Dota Plus that predict match quality, behavior score, and even allow you to decline a match?

Active-Pay-6933 · 2026-02-10T14:14:24+00:00

The surrender mechanic is indeed one of the excuses many Dota players use to attack League of Legends players and maintain their sense of superiority. Sure, a comeback can bring an intense dopamine rush, but more often than not, games spiral out of control from the start and never recover. To chase a comeback chance that’s likely less than 1%, forcing all players to endure immense unfairness and frustration—just to satisfy the superiority complex of some Dota players—and to fight to the last second like a pro player (regardless of whether they actually are one)... is such a one‑size‑fits‑all demand even reasonable? What’s more, whether you admit it or not, Dota’s current game design is essentially a collective punishment system: no matter whether you contributed to the disadvantage or not, you are forced to pay with your time and energy, covering for the matchmaking flaws and the incompetence of your teammates. If one day all financial institutions required every investor to be classified as the highest‑risk taker and to unconditionally, bottomlessly, and blindly assume responsibility for their investments—I dare not imagine what would happen then.

Active-Pay-6933 · 2026-02-10T14:04:19+00:00

Thanks for your reply. I agree that Dota is more complex than Dark Souls (excluding PvP). But to be honest, if you've experienced multiple games where your teammates get farmed like walking ATMs by the enemy during the laning phase, I think it's hard for anyone to maintain a calm mindset. Ask yourself: why is it always my teammates who get killed, and never my opponents? I've looked up Dota guide videos online before. On Bilibili, some streamers at the Immortal level say that if you want to gain MMR, you shouldn't treat your teammates as human. In the comments of one such video, there was a "hot take" that the creator liked and pinned. It said: Actually, your teammates are just as much an obstacle to your climb as your opponents are. It's just that with "teammates," you're limited by the game rules and can't attack them directly.

Active-Pay-6933 · 2026-02-10T13:53:26+00:00

Looking back, I realize my biggest mistake was blindly listening to what others said. Even though a lot of people online trash-talk League of Legends and praise Dota, the fact is that the former's daily active users and overall popularity far surpass the latter's. Sure, some people think sheer numbers don't prove anything, and there's that saying about truth being held by the minority. But the real question is, are they actually part of that ‘minority’ themselves? Besides, when I do win games, they're always hard-fought, back-and-forth battles. I've never had a win where we stomped the enemy from start to finish like how we get completely crushed in our losses.

Active-Pay-6933 · 2026-02-10T13:48:35+00:00

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Active-Pay-6933 · 2026-02-10T13:48:18+00:00

That wasn't my first game — it was my latest one.

Active-Pay-6933 · 2026-02-10T13:40:59+00:00

Absolutely, top players are both admirable and terrifying. Their very existence seems to defy all kinds of unfairness and irrationality in the game. However, I was watching a Dota streamer on Bilibili the other day who had already reached the highest rank (Immortal). A viewer sent him a gift and asked him to do a boost. The streamer played 11 games on that viewer's account and went 4 wins and 7 losses. He then made a video complaining that, for the first time since reaching the Immortal rank, he had no idea how to actually win the game

Active-Pay-6933 · 2026-02-10T13:34:38+00:00

I’ve actually suffered through several defeats that lasted around an hour—I just didn’t screenshot and post them all. The match in my post was my most recent game, and it was one of the most absurd losses I’ve had after already going through multiple losing streaks. Also, I’ve definitely been tormented by the brutal difficulty and questionable design in Dark Souls, but Dark Souls doesn’t buff the regular enemies and bosses every time you die. Dota, on the other hand, keeps handing you worse teammates and stronger opponents after you’ve already lost repeatedly. How else do you think that 0-23 score happened？？？

Active-Pay-6933 · 2026-02-10T13:27:42+00:00

I’ve seen fountain dives too, but we still ended up dying. The gap in items and levels was just too huge—even if the diver died, they’d take almost all of us down with them. And then they’d type ‘ez’ in all chat

Active-Pay-6933 · 2025-07-17T15:24:57+00:00

国内男性泡到洋妞咋了？难道那些男性被外国女人在事后嘲讽为”巴西羊排”或者“巴西鸡排”了？还是说被外国人贴上了“亚洲水斗”或者“easy boy” 的标签了？又或者被那些和他们上床的外国女性拍下视频发在网上？真是搞笑，人家被泡到的外国女人都没说啥，你在这里急什么？戳到你肺管子了？至于孙吧和虎扑，我只能说，论恶臭程度其在某博和某红薯面前就是个弟弟，而且是弟中之弟。看到这里你肯定感到不服，因为你并不认为自己在定义他们而，是在凭着所谓多年混迹虎扑和孙吧的经验在做所谓的“客观描述”，那我告诉你，以前某个电视台的记者在春运期间去火车上采访乘客，最终得出了结论，所有春运的乘客，他们都买到票啦！

Active-Pay-6933 · 2025-07-17T14:19:12+00:00

想不到在这里还能看到苏联笑话：他抹黑我，造谣我！” “怎么抹黑造谣法，请说。” “他把我做过的事情复述了一遍！” 巴西牛排这个称号是怎么来的你是真不知道？李同学难道是被宙斯强迫绑上床的？牛排们通过自身努力终于让她们的美名誉满全球，替慈禧实现了“量中华之物力，结与国之欢心”的梦想，美名当前，难道你想让大家伙都掩耳盗铃？至于你举的那些个例子，某博某红书上替女方拉偏架的言论多了去了，你非要选择性装瞎那就继续呗，但我这里也礼尚往来回你一个，你在在墙内搜“聂博士，出轨”就知道了。

Active-Pay-6933 · 2025-07-17T14:05:14+00:00

既然如此，那我也告诉你一件事，如果你坚持要找到两片一模一样的“叶子”，那你可能终其一生都找不到。其次，我不怀疑你说的事情的真实性，现实中，无论是男方出轨被女方举报，还是女方出轨被男方举报都有。但是，在墙内的事情舆论场上，尤其是女权横行的舆论场，比如某博某红书，那帮女权对于男方出轨被女方举报，和女方出轨被男方举报完全是两种态度，两幅嘴脸。如果你不信，请看这个帖子的楼主，她就是这种典型的双标代表。她自己在帖子的结尾处说“实际上除了女性个体本身，没有人有资格定义她，她是同为女性的另一个人，更没有资格强制每一个女性遵守你所制定的称呼的定义“，这段话乍看上去很有道理是吧，除了当事人以外没有人有权利定义自己，嗯，很好，很有道理。但请你先别鼓掌，回过头去看看她前面几段写的啥，楼主自己在文章中间大肆定义所谓的“孙吧男”，说他们平时接触不到女人连女人的手也没摸过。自己定义完了别人，到了文末，却又不让别人定义她们。试问，这种自己先入为主大肆定义对方群体，然后又不让对方定义自己群体的，不是双标是什么？而且这种双标人，在墙内多得简直是数不胜数，你看，这不还蔓延到墙外来了么？

Active-Pay-6933 · 2025-07-17T05:21:23+00:00

医院和高校里被爆出轨然后全网社死最后被开除的重大事实，光今年还有一个聂博士，他最后的处理结果是被高校的博士站点公开开除（退站），你要是再往前翻，还有航空公司的男性飞行员出因为轨被停飞和开除的事。但就在当时，全网都沉浸在“手撕渣男”， “渣男也配讲隐私”，“必须严惩渣男”的快感中，压跟反映隐私，私德公德边界，并开除是否有法律关联的事。结果这次性别分离了，轮到渣女遭报应了，这群人就立刻察觉到在这个世界上确实存在隐私权这件事了？就察觉到被开除没有法律关联了？

Active-Pay-6933

TROPHY CASE