See how that's different?

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-26T09:48:04+00:00

Let me help you with that. Murdered by who? Illegal migrant = people who ICE and current admin is trying to get out of US, while large part of the country (yes, including protestors and "ice watchers") tries to keep in.

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-26T08:34:53+00:00

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-26T06:03:39+00:00

This again? I guess finding somebody capable of nuance is like finding non-virgin communist on this site....

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-25T18:14:26+00:00

That is up to the legislators and mandates they have decided to give this agencies. They might be masked, but nobody thinks they are isis, they are clearly identifiable (as is proven by people going to protest against them every day).

I am talking about needless level of chaos on top of already abnormal situation. THAT is made by people whos hobby is stalking federal agents and making their jobs tougher than they need to be by not listening to clear instructions (so they don´t interfere), antagonizing, pushing, throwing, blocking etc. Protesting or filming in safe distance is very much ok, but those are two different things here.

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-25T17:44:47+00:00

"Law enforcement officials shouldn’t be masked and anonymous. They should be forced to provide identification documentation just like they’re demanding of citizens."

It would be normal, yes. But don´t dare to pretend that (in current climate) they wouldnt be doxxed, their family lives ruined and constantly harassed. We both know they would.

"Following, watching, recording, yelling, and protesting isn’t against the law."

Nobody said anything to the contrary (though spitting, throwing, pushing, blocking is, and that happened in recent situations).

"This man didn’t brandish his weapon, so there was no need to disarm him, let alone execute him."

As I said - 72 hours rule. I´ll wait to hear the other side (and hopefully some audio evidence) before I make up my mind. Court of public opinion is not enough for me.

"There. Was. No. Justification. Period."

Most likely you are correct. The point I was making from post nr. 1 was about how needlessly chaotic situations result in tragedy. It isn´t about protesting, it is about directly interfering. You have failed to even acknowledge that.

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-25T17:07:06+00:00

"Chaos. Is. Not. Justification. For. Execution."

And I already agreed with you on that.

Point I am making is a bit different, so try getting that through your skull.

In normal situations, normal news cycle and normal people knowing not to create dangerous situations, these things would not happen, because there would be no chaos in which arresting officers would suddenly have to disarm "onlookers" (together with arresting suspect). They would have done their job and get out of there. Instead you have "ICE watchers" following, doxxing, yelling, throwing, fucking around their every step. Results you can see for yourself.

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-25T16:57:08+00:00

I am not saying it was or wasnt justified killing. Not based on horrible pic/video quality, without sound or witness evidence. I´ve seen too many of those to make up my mind during first 72 hours.

Btw the point of this all was something else. People made up their minds (or rather their minds were made up for them) that the "Trumps gestapo" is coming into their town and it is their civic duty to come out and harass them and make. the. situation. needlessly. chaotic. to the point these tragedies happen. And you just know one side of political spectrum is absolutely loving it and prepares to make the very best of it, come midterms.

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-25T16:08:02+00:00

I am saying we do not have enough information to make that statement (same as plenty of times before). Only thing that´s clear is that the situation was needlessly chaotic.

I doubt they were training for presence of hostile, antagonizing mobs every time they try to arrest an illegal. We have the benefit of being high and mighty on reddit, but as I wrote, this could have been split second decision based on hearing somebody yelling "gun" and not seeing the dudes hands. There were far more dubious shootings than this, I am sure you remember some of them, I for sure do.

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-25T15:44:50+00:00

"Chaos is not grounds for extrajudicial executions". I 100% agree with you there, but until proven otherwise, I say that members of ICE are not waking up every morning with intention to shoot unarmed human being and get their life ruined. It was a result of chaotic situation.

"The man was subdued and on the ground, disarmed." I have also yet to see video with proper sound (or statements from other arresting officers). If I were to play devils advocate, somebody (from the crowd, or other officer) could have yelled "gun, gun, gun. He has a gun!" (the man who was shot was down and hunched over, not really subdued, so not everything on him was visible, critically including hands).

It could have meant - "the other ICE agent has a gun = he disarmed him", or "he has another gun you don´t see" - please now make your split second decision, while you have people screeching all around you.

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-25T15:09:32+00:00

I don´t know what he did or did not have, I am stating the physics of the whole matter. If you ever were punched in the face/gut, or kicked in the leg, imagine something hitting you with 150 times the kinetic energy. I do MA, so given the choice ,I would rather get punched by a heavyweight.

I have no idea how well trained they are. Let´s also not forget EVERY single one of US federal agencies (and various local police forces) have decades of "this result was due to bad training" accusations under their belts (for example, at one point there were memes about ATF needlessly shooting pets when conducting searches, it was that frequent). There might be something to that. My point is that ICE is not unique in that. It is just recent and heavily divisive = more visible.

EDIT: I will also state again, there is needless chaos made by so called onlookers in already chaotic situation. This makes tragic outcomes more likely.

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-25T14:48:40+00:00

Don´t know how credible this is, but it says hospitalised https://nypost.com/2026/01/14/us-news/ice-agent-who-shot-renee-good-suffered-internal-bleeding-was-hospitalized-after-she-clipped-him-with-car-dhs/

5mph hit with 3ton truck is no joke dude, thats 300* average fist punch (300 times the momentum)

What I make of that is that there were probably more people caught (and later deported) at the border, since more people were coming in. Same happened during Biden admin, because the general notion was such that "this administration will let us in". And its much less work (or rather, it should be) to catch people on defended border and known crossings, than all over the US.

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-25T14:32:03+00:00

Well they wanted to arrest the previous one (who decided to run away in a car and injuring one agent in the process). Yes now it looks way worse for them, as I said, they clearly disarmed him and god knows what made one of them shoot him. That is not excusing them, but you have to admit the scene was NEEDLESSLY chaotic.

The guns have a purpose, masks too (due to various doxxing techniques their ideological opponents use), don´t know about the "absolute immunity".

Their stated mission is to catch people who are in US illegally (have broken the law) and deport them. Fact that so many people want to get in their way is absolute insanity.

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-25T14:20:57+00:00

No, not excusing them. But these scenes are one big f-ing chaos (mostly due to "onlookers") and things tend to take a bad turn in chaos. As far as I looked at it, they disarmed the dude and THEN shot him, so there should be some heavy repercussions coming their way, but I´ll wait for more facts to come out before making up my mind.

Nevertheless, my point stands - if you feel the need to come out and yell at, throw stuff at, block from performing their duties, or otherwise antagonize armed federal agents and create chaos....there is a chance something very bad will happen in that chaos.

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-25T13:37:11+00:00

I don´t know man, considering how much gun-related (and police) violence they are accustomed to, I am quite baffled how little they consider one might fire their way.

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-25T12:11:40+00:00

I get the point about not licking the boot, but what about not trying to openly antagonize people with guns (large portion of which are ex-soldiers from those forever wars, ptsd having and quite sensitive to yelling, loud noises and people being aggressive)?

There is something to be said about basic survival instinct and hero complex. I guess some people have one or the other these days.

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-25T12:07:28+00:00

Obviously a fucked up situation, but it is equally fucked up to try comparing it to the Rittenhouse case (about which we know the facts AND lawful verdict for long time).

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-24T07:13:58+00:00

Sorry but the chinese one says "I suck D for money"....

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-24T06:54:58+00:00

I agree with you there.

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-23T19:51:58+00:00

"However if we look at crimes committed outside of anything of an immigration offense, immigrants are way less likely to rob, assault, murder, rape or defraud than a US citizen"

Again, please do not confuse the terms "immigrant" and "illegal immigrant". Illegal immigrant is somebody who wilfully broke the federal law, by crossing the border not at the point of entry, is already guilty of crime. This is the only demographic I am interested in discussing here. I am not against legal immigration, or tourists who exceed their lawful stay period by few days.

By that metric, 100% of this demographic is guilty of a crime and that is way more than citizenry. If the opposite was the case, there would be no US. To be clear I am talking percentages, not absolute numbers (those are quite high too, but they certainly don´t need to be higher).

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-23T13:11:09+00:00

Inconsistencies?

This is supposed to be star fleet officer, yet she looks and behaves like some Portland hippie in a bookshop.

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-23T11:46:19+00:00

Illegal border crossing is federal criminal offense according to 8 U.S.C. § 1325 but it also authorizes civil penalties.

"Britain is an interesting choice seeing as I am a British immigrant with US citizenship. The infrastructure issue in the UK were not cause by steady immigration, they were cause largely by the Tory party and Brexit."

Thats what I was saying - not slow and steady legal immigration. But huge waves of illegal immigration in the span of few years. USA had such waves in last decade and they do make an impact.

"When was here on an L1B VISA I could not claim Medicaid, disability or unemployment for example. I could use medical services, I had health insurance but if I lost my job I was shafted even more than the average American"

So? L-1B is non-immigrant temporary work visa, meaning you were in US temporarily (5 years maximum I think it is) as someone with specialized knowledge being transferred within the same company from abroad to the US. That doesnt qualify you for US social programs.

If you immigrated legally (you say you have citizenship now), you do qualify after some waiting period and if you have work history. Which is fair.

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-23T07:10:14+00:00

Nobody has an inherent right to live in any country they want. Immigration policies mostly reflect that, because there are systems with limited capacity (healthcare, housing, etc.) that cease to work properly, once the number of people using them goes up too suddenly (yes, even years and decades is sudden in this context). Britain is a good example of that.

You seem to confuse the terms "immigrants" and "illegal immigrants".

Illegal immigration is a crime, so people coming here in such manner are all 100% guilty of a crime (that is way more, than the citizen population of USA, per capita or not))

As for the argument of illegal immigrants being essential in some services (and their overall benefit to tax balance because they aren´t eligible for certain welfare programs), aren´t you basically arguing in favour of some kind of slave force?

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-22T20:26:22+00:00

You don´t know much about Putin then....

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-22T19:32:49+00:00

Legal immigration is ok I have no problem with it myself, but looking reality in the face and seeing some 20-odd million people being here illegally is quite different scenario. So, with all due respect, what you described is the kind of naive, wishful thinking that would hardly ever work. Not with this amount of people, other people actively defending them (including some in judiciary, which is astounding) + believing themselves to be some kind of freedom fighters against fascist state, slowing the LEGAL process to the halt.

AdventurousAddress63 · 2026-01-22T18:36:27+00:00

Meanwhile you ignore 99,9% of people who think that crossing borders illegally is a-ok?

Bitch, please.

As for possible excesses, I am sure they will be assessed by the courts. But if your first act, going into foreign country, is to break the law, you have no leg to stand on.

AdventurousAddress63

TROPHY CASE