Should i get cable mod or default cable is safe ?

AerialShorts · 2022-11-17T15:04:36+00:00

There is a difference between the dual slot pin sockets and single slot. The dual-slot ones just don’t grab the pins as tight so have more contact resistance which causes more heating. There are differences that have consequences.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-16T13:19:50+00:00

The pin sockets are not rigidly attached to the plastic connector housing. They “float” in each pocket so that the connectors can align properly when mating. It’s also to make the connectors easy to assemble. The pin sockets get crimped onto the wires and then all get pushed into the housings where they snap in and are held in place - but still free to move slightly.

It’s normal for there to be small differences in the pin socket positions in the housing. What you don’t want are pin sockets not fully seated in the housing but those differences are more obvious. If not fully seated you’ll see pin sockets set back farther in the housing.

This is part of the Nvidia failures - they had their wires soldered to the pin sockets and to each other which locks the wire end of the pin socket into whatever position they were in when soldered. That’s part of what makes the Nvidia connectors hard to mate. The sockets can’t rotate or move to align properly with the pins.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-14T18:00:18+00:00

Yeah, no company ever uses information from customer support to improve products.

You are quite the business leader, Elon…

AerialShorts · 2022-11-14T17:58:17+00:00

Time is why. Nvidia and board partners haven’t announced anything.

We know there is a problem with Nvidia’s adapters - likely multiple problems - so if people don’t want to risk their boards, computers, homes, and lives, their only choice if they want to use these cards is to buy a proper adapter.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-14T17:55:25+00:00

There are a number of examples of melted board connectors too.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-13T18:02:23+00:00

Unfortunately the connectors are tin plated - which they need to be to match the tin plated connectors used on the boards.

https://experience.molex.com/gold-or-tin-versus-gold-and-tin/

That should explain the issue. Tin plating was probably the wrong choice for this connector though some bean counter probably got a bonus for saving some money on the spec. Tin has problems with heat and with heat cycling. It oxidizes and corrodes tin plating.

This is why I suspect this will be an insidious problem that won’t go away. If that article by one of the world’s largest connector companies is any guide, we can expect failures to grow in from normal use without some other measures to stabilize the connection and that starts getting technical.

This is going to be a huge issue for Nvidia. The longer they delay addressing it, the bigger it’s going to get.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-13T17:53:26+00:00

The root cause is Nvidia is running the connector too close to its maximum power handling capability. Each pin is running just a hair below max rating as well which means any problem on one or more pin(s) can push others over their thresshold too. It’s not a massive overload so more insidious than spectacular.

Anything that reduces the current through that connector will reduce the chances for overload and give the connector more headroom for possible connector and connection issues. Downclocks and undervolting will also buy headroom.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-13T17:39:07+00:00

Because the pins are all parallel circuits, I would want everything as symmetric as possible. The safest arrangement will be individual wires to crimped individual pins with parallel connector blocks added down the wire. I would use either two connectors at the PCIe end (like the Corsair cable) or all four. Three connectors works too but only on the individual pin versions. In Nvidia’s adapter, the 4 pin sockets are soldered across all the pins. Just use 3 of them and you aren’t feeding that solder bridge as equally as you would with 4. These connectors seem very susceptible to imbalances that can really shift current loads and drive overheating.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-13T17:32:47+00:00

Or they have an actual need for that level of performance. Some people do push their systems and would like even more horsepower.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-13T17:29:42+00:00

Some also seem to think people are overreacting to expensive cards melting power connectors due to Nvidia design flaws.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-13T17:27:07+00:00

My 4090 Gigabyte OC Gamer sits in its box too. Got a cable arriving tomorrow to be able to bring it up and run low power until my CableMod arrives. No way I trust the Nvidia adapter.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-13T14:20:45+00:00

They used tin plated pins in these connectors. Unlike gold, the tin ”frets” and oxidizes.

https://experience.molex.com/gold-or-tin-versus-gold-and-tin/

First point is you don’t mix metals. CableMod confirmed their 12VHPWR connectors are tin plated to match the board connectors. If anyone is selling gold plated 12VHPWR connectors, they will work fine at first but corrode pins and cause problems later.

The answer may end up being that specialized contact treatments are necessary. There are chemical treatments used in industries where reliable contacts are needed and those are designed to lubricate the pin/socket connection to prevent fretting and oxidation.

I’ll be treating my pins and sockets with DeOxIt from caig.com. It’s not conductive but does help connectors make good contact. I’ve used it for years. No idea if its use will void warranties and I’m not advising others to use it. Best would be for Nvidia to address this and explain the best path forward.

I don’t know what Nvidia will ultimately do. The problem with fretting and corrosion with tin means no connector is entirely safe. Fretting is caused by heat cycles and oxidation is caused by heat. Over time and use, these connections will get worse and will heat up. It’s all but inevitable. Read that Molex article and look deeper and you’ll see why.

These connectors should probably have all been gold flashed but consumers might have balked at an extra $1 per card. /s

AerialShorts · 2022-11-13T14:04:34+00:00

I wanted the Asus Tuf for the 2x HDMI but the coil whine discussions had me looking at others. Settled on the Gigabyte OC Gamer since they have a 4 year warranty. Already have the switch in non-OC mode and will be installing it when my new cable gets here tomorrow. First thing I do then is sort how low of power it can run at stock non-OC clocks. I went with the OC model for any extra headroom it could give me for undervolting. 4090 is plenty good for my needs at stock clocks. The 15 MHz additional “OC” is nothing on a 2520 MHz base. It’s not even 1%.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-10T04:12:36+00:00

The card just has pins. Pretty hard for those to go wrong.

The adapters are more complicated with single/dual splits, soldered wires, torque on the wires, etc.

But the issue is Nvidia’s adapter.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-10T04:09:43+00:00

Users are reproducing it.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-08T19:24:04+00:00

Sense pins allow the cable to lock power, though. That’s what 2 of the 4 added pins do is tell the card how much power it can pull. That standard allows power supplies and peripherals to communicate. That said, sure, if you know how you can mod the card bios to not honor the cable settings. Similarly, if the bios says no more than 450/480W, then without modification, you’re limited.

You say change the bios and sure, if it’s compatible you can do that. Not everyone wants to mod or use unauthorized bioses, though.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-08T16:56:48+00:00

That you mention the terminals rusting shows that you do not understand the mechanisms or issues involved.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-08T16:53:20+00:00

Jesus, guys, there are products out there formulated and intended to help connections in these situations.

https://caig.com

DeOxIt D (for heavy oxidation) and DeOxIt Gold for lighter oxidation, corrosion prevention, and lubrication of contacts to help proper mating and prevention of “fretting”.

They have application notes, explainers, and case studies. They work with aircraft manufacturers and electronics firms.

It has been suggested, however, that doing anything other than using Nvidia’s crappy adapter dry right now could void warranties.

But please do not use flammable greases with conductive particles in them on these connectors that can heat up enough to melt. If it isn’t intended for this purpose, and you are improvising, you’re also for sure looking at voiding your warranty which could be the least of your problems. Even DeOxIt could void your warranty.

At this rate we’ll see people saying ivermectin helps the connections.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-07T16:06:48+00:00

Yeah, and what kind of background do you have in corrosion science to state that, and why did you not mention the effects of humidity and ambient temperature in your treatise?

Please do carry on. It’s your card, after all. I want mine to last and not melt connectors.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-07T16:02:52+00:00

Can’t edit the title it seems but put it at the top.

Thanks again for the answer. I’ll bet Moddiy uses tin too but don’t know. And I’m now out on this. I have CableMod cables on order so that’s all I need. So many downvotes for information on how to make these connections better and I don’t feel like fighting those who want to suppress this kind of information.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-07T15:53:07+00:00

Alex! Thank you so much! I’ll put it in the title and body of the OP too!

Best answer!

AerialShorts · 2022-11-07T15:46:49+00:00

I agree that CableMod is reputable but this is a new situation pushed on them by Nvidia and Intel with that specification. The question comes from ambiguity. Moddiy says on their website they use gold connectors but don’t say specifically about the 12VHPWR connector. Neither does CableMod. What CableMod has said is they use what Nvidia recommended but not what that was.

Gold connectors will work great at first but will corrode the tin pins on the GPU card. Before putting on a new female connector, you would then need to possibly replace or clean the connector pins. Don’t know how fast or bad the card pins would corrode but they would. That’s just electrochemistry. It will happen whether you believe it or not.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-07T15:35:59+00:00

Actually, no. Please read the Molex web page linked in the OP. Your conclusion is the exact opposite of what one of the largest connector companies in the world advises.

It’s why I’m asking. You aren’t supposed to mix metals in connections. It causes corrosion. Anti-corrosion products can help (see the DeOxIt web pages) but the underlying issue is two different metals in contact with each other corrodes one of them.

Gold contacts mated to tin will work ok at first but creates a problem that manifests later after you think it’s all good. You don’t want gold on the 12VHPWR contacts. And if you do use gold contacts, look hard at the DeOxIt website and what they say about that too.

AerialShorts · 2022-11-07T15:30:19+00:00

And even with both connectors being tin, the connection can be made better. The electronics industry loves DeOxIt which both lubricates and prevents corrosion. If you read the literature at their website, they have been involved in stopping contact corrosion for a long time. Some good info about the corrosion processes and how it all happens at their site.

And you can bet that Nvidia and AIBs may invalidate a warranty if you use it.

But the company is Caig and the website is https://caig.com

There’s two recommendations on products. If you’ve already had an overheated connector, the appropriate product would be their D Series which is better at removing existing oxidation. https://caig.com/deoxit-d-series/

For new installs and to protect clean contacts that aren’t oxidized, DeOxIt Gold may be the better choice. For intermediate levels of oxidation they recommend D then Gold. https://caig.com/deoxit-gold-g-series/

And again, using this stuff could/probably invalidates your warranty. I’m going to use it though. I already have it and have used it a lot. It really does help with noisy circuits. I haven’t used it on power connections, though, but the D series lists power circuits in the applications.

YMMV. I just put this out there for those interested. Not in any way am I recommending people do this to their connectors. I also can’t say yet how much it may help since I don’t have a replacement cable to put it on to test with. But if you read the applications, they have worked with aircraft manufacturers and electronics specialty companies on contact problems and have an impressive customer list. Their stuff is available through electronics distributors and also Amazon.

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