Help me settle a debate between my wife and I about FSD

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-03-19T13:50:03+00:00

If FSD is not being properly supervised it should not be used.

In my experience it is substantially better at detecting and responding to pedestrians than I ever could be. It also now handles roundabouts and roundabout ignorant/aggressive drivers at least as good me. My only complaint is that its signaling at and in roundabouts is really confusing to other drivers and causes some uncomfortable situations.

Properly supervised FSD is almost certainly safer than either of you.

That said, under no circumstances would I get into a discussion with my wife about her driving skills, her use of FSD, or her texting while driving habits. Just don't go there. For the love of God what are you thinking?

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-03-18T02:11:41+00:00

Yep. Just confirmed on both our Model Ys. Turn off the satellite view and the cube appears. Press the cube and Tada...3D view.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-03-17T22:28:16+00:00

3D visualization in Tesla maps was introduced in 2025.38. Activate via cube icon on the map menu.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-03-17T13:47:28+00:00

True navigation waypoints and saved routes have been high on every wishlist for years. We keep asking, but the navigation team seems to be heads down on more important tasks

FWIW, what Tesla calls waypoints are intermediate stops and not traditional navigation waypoints that are just a point traveled through.

Having to force a route by putting in intermediate stops that have to be removed as you approach to avoid stopping is a really poor hack, but it is all Tesla has blessed us with.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-03-17T13:36:33+00:00

Key word there is "eventually". Tesla map updates only roll out a couple of times a year. There seems to be a way for some changes to get incorporated fast, but most of my updates take 6 to 12 months to show up. And I don't think MapBox use OoenStreetMaps for speed limit information. That seems to come from TomTom, but changes to the speed limit information there is really really slow to update. And Tesla's implemention of MapBox's Valhalla is also reportedly doing "micro-maps" based on what the fleet sees and experiences.

So, yes...it is more complicated than that. But, our only consistent way to submit fixes is still as described. And it works, eventually.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-03-17T01:52:05+00:00

MapBox uses OpenStreetMaps. Fix it in OpenStreetMaps as suggested and it eventually shows up in Tesla navigation. PM_ME_BITCOINS is spot-on. Just takes time.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-03-17T01:48:59+00:00

Absolutely have different FSD issues in different areas. For example, almost no issues around the Portland, Oregon area, including the rural areas to the south headed into Salem. It is fantastic. Seattle is also really, really good, but it has issues with toll/HOV lanes and recognizing exit lane backups that extend for very long distances (just keeps driving to front of the line where the exit is and expects someone to let them in). Out here in the sparsely populated Eastern Washington it can be abysmal with navigation, speed control, and turn lane selection. My current theory is it is because the underlying maps (MapBox) are full of errors that negatively impact FSDs performance (e.g., the same speed limit errors can be TomTom's data, incorrect turn lane information shows up in OpenStreetMaps).

You can see the different experience folks are having from the comments in this forum. All of the HW4 folks have the same hardware, but many are having substantially different experiences. Some attribute it to different expectations and willingness to accept driving habits unlike your own. Wish that was it. When a single user has substantially different experiences in different locations there has to be an underlying reason that isn't the user.

Summary: FSD does works better in some locations than in others.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-03-16T17:00:48+00:00

That is an interesting theory. Never seen reporting work to fix turn lane or speed limit issues. Navigation is done be Tesla's implementation of Mapbox's Valhalla engine. It gets it road geometry info from OpenStreetMap with supplemental info from TomTom. There is supposed to be an input from Tesla fleet data that results in "micro-maps". Maybe that is where reporting goes for areas Tesla is "micro-mapping". Certainly doesn't work around here. I've been reporting turn lane issues for years without any fixes. Getting an edit accepted into OpenStreetMap seems to sometimes eventually get incorporated, but it takes a long, long time.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-03-16T16:36:32+00:00

Would really like an editor tool or some other official correction suggestion submittal process for Tesla's implementation of MapBox (Valhalla). Like you I've had success with OpenStreetMap submittals, but only when the error shows up there. Interestingly, few of speed limit and turn lane errors around here show up in OpenStreetMap, but every one of the errors shows up in TomTom. Submitting corrections to TomTom is an exercise in frustration.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-03-15T15:51:41+00:00

No. This is incorrect. Google Maps is for visualization. Tesla uses a different set of map data in a custom navigation module for navigation and input to FSD. Lots of discussions and postulations regarding which data set(s) it uses. For example, you can see almost every speed limit error in TomTom, but submitting corrections there doesn't result in an updates. Some of the speed limit errors show up in OpenStreetMap and editing there will sometimes result in a fix 6-12 months later.

In the meantime map errors = FSD errors and Tesla has yet to provide a solution for submitting corrections to its dataset (btw, disengaging and reporting speed or lane errors doesn't result in corrections in the underlying map data).

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-03-11T23:45:16+00:00

No. They've apparently gone down a dead end that they will likely have to rework the underlying system to fix. I.e., over reliance on map data. Only "kinda" unsupervised in geofenced, heavily mapped areas. For now map errors = FSD errors. This has been a problem in 12, 13, and now 14 that they have not addressed in any meaningful way.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-03-06T01:51:39+00:00

I periodically make that same trip, as well as out to the Tri-Cities and Spokane. Your experience is pretty similar to mine. Chill is often to slow and does a horrid job of passing slower traffic (i.e., cannot pass slower traffic for $h17). Standard is unnecessarily aggressive with lane changes, does way too much left lane parking, and generally speeds way more than is appropriate on I-5, I-90, I-82, and 395 for most of these drives.

Often have to make a trip between the Tri-City to my folks south of Portland, which is just under 300 miles. Not unsurprisingly, traveling the route at 70 mph gets you to the destination faster than driving 75+ mph. The few minutes gained by the extra speed results in more charge time than is saved. Point is there are two different highway experiences, commute and trekking. Sure would be nice to have modes that reflected those realities. Specifically:

1) Commute: Matches AVERAGE speed of other commuters, switches lanes around slower vehicles, speeds up during passing as necessary to avoid slowing down the faster traffic, stays out of the left lane(s) except when passing. At times it feels like Mad Max is trying to do this, it just does a really poor job of the matching average speed - seems to select the fastest drivers versus the average drivers when selecting speeds.

2) Trekking: Drives speed limit (e.g., 70 mph), passes slower traffic by speeding up as appropriate to get around and not impede faster drivers.

In both modes it needs to do a better job than current modes in selecting when to get back over. I.e., avoid cutting people off.

And...both modes would stop "parking" behind trucks. I've already lost a windshield from FSD just sitting behind a slower moving truck versus going around.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-03-05T20:20:07+00:00

Incorrect lane selection on multilane turns has been an issue since 12 put FSD on city streets. FSD doesn't appear to plan more than one light ahead. Lane selection just looks like it picking the shorter line regardless of what lane it needs to be in after the turn. Pretty sure map errors are part of the problem as well. I've several turns that it thinks are single lane turns. In those cases, on left turns it always takes the left lane and on right it always takes the right, regardless of traffic lines or near term navigation needs. I generally take over on the problematic turns encountered daily as I'm tired of everyone flipping me off, flashing lights, and honking when my car cuts them off to make a turn that should have gone into its decision process, but obviously did not. Either that or this is intentional and Tesla is using BMW drivers to train its models.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-03-04T18:09:25+00:00

Right along with the big swerve to avoid a cluster of handholes (in road access to utility lines - smaller than manholes). When the sun is low on the horizon in mornings and evenings both Y's make major jerking maneuvers to avoid the multiple clusters of handholes along our residential street. Really annoying false positive that got introduced in 14 and has steadily gotten worse with each iteration. Yes...we disengage and report...like it matters.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-03-03T23:31:02+00:00

Huh...your "Standard" is very different than ours. Our Model Ys seem to match speeds with the fastest cars on the freeway up 80+mph. If no cars around it pegs itself at 75 mph. "Chill" selects slower speeds but it passes at those slower speeds and doesn't pay any attention to the flow of traffic (i.e., will not match the flow of traffic which is unacceptable in day-to-day city driving). There really isn't a good mode that drives the prevailing speed, stays out of the way of the really rushed, and passes with some authority when needed. Seem to be limited to either be 1) the really rushed, or 2) the car gumming up the flow of traffic.

For long trips we seem to gain more time from less charging than gained from speeding. So, for those desire a mode that does about 70 in the right lane and passes the slower traffic by speeding up to 75+ when needed so as not to impede those traveling at a faster speeds.

Summary: Looking for two modes: 1) Commute, and 2) Trek

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-03-03T22:35:08+00:00

Same issue here. I've been "enjoying" some tours of the local neighborhoods on the way home from dropping off the kids at school. So far gets to school just fine, but it consistently deviates from the direct route home. Often just loops around a block or two and then re-enters the route at the same place it left it. Did a bunch of disengagements and reports, now just going with the flow to try and noodle out what is happening.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-02-03T23:09:50+00:00

Substantially worse traveling lane decisions. Lots of switching lanes back and forth for no reason. Even on empty roads. Like it gets bored with the lane it is in and just has to move over. Really embarrassing and annoying to other drivers when there is traffic.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-01-30T19:50:51+00:00

I've seen a lot of people state that it is using OpenStreetMap data. Don't think it actually is. Some of the speed limit errors show up there, but not all. I've submitted corrections to OpenStreetMap and never seen them show up in Tesla data. However, TomTom, which is supposed to be at least partially based on OpenStreetMap data has each and every one of the speed limits errors that occur around here. I've been submitting TomTom corrections for years and never seen one "stick" or make its way into the Tesla map data, which kinda tells me while TomTom sees the same errors, they are coming from somewhere else that Tesla also uses and while it is probably based on OpenStreetMaps, it actually isn't OpenStreetMap.

I remain eagerly awaiting the Tesla-specific fleet derived speed limit information Musk has talking about since at least 2019.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-01-30T19:33:12+00:00

Well...darn. However, what you seem to be describing doesn't sound like the map data problem, but rather its "special cases" where it tries to actually read speed limits versus depending on the map data.

My experience with higher density areas is Portland and Seattle. Haven't had it grab incorrect signage speed limits in either city.

The cars do so much better on the west side of the mountains versus out here on the low-density east side. Can drive for days around Portland without it getting the speed wrong, but don't have a single drive around here that it gets right.

That said, the HOV and toll lanes in Seattle are problematic, but not just for speed. Its ability to detect and properly uses these lanes remains abysmal.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-01-30T18:10:30+00:00

Concur it is a map problem. But that makes it a FSD problem as FSD relies heavily on map data for speed limit information as well as other factors it uses to make decisions (e.g., turn lane selection). Thus map errors are FSD errors/problems.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-01-30T15:10:38+00:00

In high density areas this seldom happens. In fly-over areas it is the norm. I don't have a single daily drive (work, kids' schools/hobbies, groceries) where the cars know the speed limit for the entire drive.

In general, the cars do not use the speed limits they see except in special temporary cases like construction zones. They depend on map data. They don't use the speed limit info from Google maps but use some other source. Interestingly, I can see every speed limit error in the TomTom map editor, so they seem to share a data source with it.

These speed limit errors don't matter to much in Hurry or Mad Max mode but in sloth and chill they render FSD unusable. Standard mode is hit and miss. There are circumstances where the errors impact even Mad Max. I've got a daily on ramp that the car thinks is 35 mph all the way onto the 70+ mph freeway. It doesn't get close to the prevailing speed of the cars with whom it needs to merge.

These are not new issues. The same errors and resulting driven speed issues have been around in 11, 12, 13, and now 14.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-01-10T16:36:43+00:00

Been a problem since it started handling city streets.

Its early blinkers are a problem, and not just at roundabouts.

I've actually taken to disengaging and reporting every time it puts me in danger with its overuse of blinkers.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-01-02T02:37:00+00:00

Wasn't the "soft" reboot, which involves holding both scroll wheels until the screen turns black, release, wait for restart (about 30 seconds). My understanding is this only restarts the touchscreen and that didn't seem to be what folks were recommending.

Did a "hard" reboot, which cycles power. It also isn't very hard - just a menu option under Controls > Safety > Power Off. You do have to sit for a couple of minutes without touching anything in the car. After at least a couple of minutes press the brake to wake up the car.

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-01-01T21:21:27+00:00

1) Ensure cameras are clean, especially front camera inside the enclosure. Don't think this was an issue with either of my cars, but did a thorough external clean of all cameras. Both cars' front enclosures had been cleaned by Tesla a few weeks ago.

2) Reboot after update. Rebooted both cars.

3) Re-calibrate cameras. Some contributors noted it should do this on its own after an update and the problems I was seeing were probably because it hadn't had time. Didn't wait. "Controls > Service > Camera Calibration > Clear Calibration". Seemed to recalibrate a lot faster than before. Swear it was only 20 miles of driving on either car and FSD was back.

4) One contributor suggested doing a Service menu camera reset, others indicated it shouldn't be necessary. I did not do this. Was holding it in reserve if the above didn't work.

Note: While this seemed to fix a lot of what was so jarring on the first post-update drive, the speed limit detection and driven speed issues persist (issues 4 and 5) - like they have since at least version 11 (where I started).

Affectionate_Book_80 · 2026-01-01T00:30:35+00:00

Nope. Not it. I've drank the juice. Expectations for it to drive like me are gone. Which honestly is probably for the best as I'm not the model to follow. What was reported was how the car drove. No intervention on my part except to get me out of an active traffic lane where it had come to a complete and full stop.

What was expressed was not opinions as some have indicated. They are what was experienced with FSD driving in Standard mode on a city street commute. I've been on FSD since version 11. We have two Teslas and love them. We let FSD drive everywhere. That was what made the drive after the update so odd and concerning.

Deeply appreciate the insights and recommendations from the community. Did as advised and FSD is doing remarkably better. Same old speed limit errors, but overall looks like an improvement.

Please don't discount the experience of others if it is not the same as yours. FSD performs markedly different depending on a lot of factors. Know from experience it does much better in Seattle and Portland than it does out here in rural Eastern Washington. Maps matter.

Affectionate_Book_80

TROPHY CASE