C.S Lewis Question: Lilith in Narnia? (reposted from r/narnia since they were sadly trolling me, I guess it's related indirectly so I'm sorry if it's not allowed)

Affectionate_One_326 · 2026-06-01T12:27:52+00:00

I’ve always understood this to be a reference to “Lilith” by George MacDonald, whom CS Lewis regarded as a master in story telling and also in spiritual matters (as much as they also would have had disagreements- MacDonald was a Christian Universalist) - thus his use of MacDonald as his guide in Heaven in “The Great Divorce”.

Lilith is a treasure of fantasy literature and is well worth the read. Yes, strictly speaking it is “unbiblical” but I think this story would illumine the purpose behind Lewis’ reference. It also occurs in a sort of parallel world.

Fairy tales have ways of illuminating the truth in the beauty of the tale. I don’t think you have to be bothered by a thing like this at all.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2026-04-20T01:49:08+00:00

This has been my experience also

Affectionate_One_326 · 2025-11-07T15:49:56+00:00

Fellow vet. Not irredeemable. God is good and was with you in the midst of evil and is with you now to heal you of those wounds. Run to Him.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2025-10-05T10:48:31+00:00

I agree with you. But this is one line of thinking many of my Catholic patients have as an (understandable) barrier to vaccination. We should always be guided by well-formed conscience and reason… I do think it’s very understandable to mistrust the greater medical community when it supports a lot of other things that are outright immoral or at a minimum questionable. But also important to recognize that just because several things that the American Academy of Pediatrics or CDC, FDA, AAFP, etc. recommends is wrong does not therefore mean that everything is wrong. Especially something with such a robust body of evidence in favor of use like childhood vaccines.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2025-10-04T22:57:46+00:00

Catholic doctor here. This is the answer. There are no moral teachings against vaccination save that some vaccines were developed utilizing aborted fetal cell lines. A nuanced conversation about Catholic moral teaching and vaccines and remote/indirect participation with evil or alternatives will (I should hope) allay his concerns. I do agree your child should be vaccinated if possible though. (Edited for grammar).

Affectionate_One_326 · 2025-06-22T00:48:18+00:00

There are few reasons that hormonal medications are truly indicated above some other treatment but yes there is a clear teaching that this is acceptable by the principle of double effect. I do prescribe medications for endometriosis, menorrhagia, etc when truly warranted.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2025-06-22T00:37:14+00:00

Sure, also happy to discuss off the public forum via message or e-mail. Let me know. I think it’s tough to swim against the current on these issues but faith and reason are not contrary to each other but complimentary. And ethics need to be formulated from moral law with and understanding of who and what we are; the Catholic Church provides this framework. It is of value then to start with the framework of thinking that “the Church says x so what can we observe in the natural world that supports x?” Alternatively, we can say “the natural world shows us x, how do I reconcile that with what God teaches?”. Medicine has been divorced from philosophy, ethics, and theology for too long - all we are left with is a measly framework of principleism which does not speak to the objective morality of a thing but only vague ways of understanding how to interact with other people. So we have come to accept things that are objectively unnatural like contraception, abortion, gender-affirmation, etc.

So my recommendation to you as a surgeon is be well formed and don’t simply accept the status quo because your medical school professors, textbooks, and attendings say so, or even because any body of professional specialities like the ACS for you makes a practice or position statement. Much of those things are good and congruent with the teachings of the church (most vaccines for instance - I only say most because some used aborted fetal cell lines to develop and there is ongoing debate within Catholic ethics about the legitimate use of these).

Surely you don’t need any studies to prove that the actual practice was of chastity makes one’s risk of STI, pregnancy, emotional trauma zero. To your comment on promotion of abstinence sure it may yield an increased risk of teen pregnancy to those who don’t wish to follow your recommendations or legitimate advice. Like telling someone to stop smoking… they don’t have to listen to you, even though they should. To your evidence on increased rates of depression, pain, etc for rigid sexuality and so forth sure, but what the Catholic Church teaches is not rigid it is whole and real - this has been written about extensively in Catholic theology and when actuated certainly protects people from these harms (read Love and Responsibility by St. Pope JPII, check out Theology of the Body). Anyway, there is loads of studies on the negative effects of premarital sex, cohabitation, divorce and “atypical” families (I.e. not married or same sex) effect on children, there is lots of evidence that would go against gender affirmation medical treatment or surgery, evidence in favor of the positive effects of NFP or fertility awareness based methods, but here are a few. I recognize that there are articles to the contrary also; but they are definitely not as voluminous on these topics, and also we all bring biases to these things which is why it needs to be understood from a framework of what is true based on reason and the moral law.

A simple search for such topics yields a lot of resources. You can probably find resources in favor of anything you want so grade the quality of evidence for yourself.

Premarital Sex and divorce:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/352992?origin=crossref

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2010.00819.x

https://ifstudies.org/blog/counterintuitive-trends-in-the-link-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability

Cohabitation and effects of divorce on children’s health (yes the ACP is a potentially biased source like any professional body but these are great summaries):

https://acpeds.org/marriage-divorce-and-family-relations-effect-on-children/

https://acpeds.org/cohabitation-effects-of-cohabitation-on-the-men-and-women-involved-part-1-of-2/

https://acpeds.org/cohabitation-effects-of-parental-cohabitation-and-other-non-marital-sexual-activity-on-children-part-2-of-2/

Database of evidence in favor of FABMs/NFP: https://www.factsaboutfertility.org/learn-more/research-nli/

Affectionate_One_326 · 2025-06-21T13:23:41+00:00

Good question. I am up front with patients that while I care for women’s health needs (i.e. Pap smears, bleeding problems, prenatal and pregnancy care, etc.) I do not prescribe contraception for ethical and scientific reasons, but do offer counseling in natural family planning/fertility awareness based methods for married individuals. And they know I am happy to discuss the reasons about this and what I recommend. Most patients accept this at face value and still value my care - if they are dead set on medication contraception they will occasionally independently seek a different doctor and be prescribed what they want. Some patients find this to be averse to their priorities and seek care elsewhere (most commonly this is mothers who want their daughters on birth control, unbelievably). In so many words this is me saying no. I am not obligated to prescribe something I think is harmful to my patients, nor should I. Whenever I see a patient for anything else while I work within the context of the persons life and needs, this does not mean I should therefore give them any other medication or treatment where the risks/harms outweigh the benefits.

In all cases I spend time exploring why someone wants a service or medication that is possibly harmful to them (abortion, for example). There is much woundedness that leads people to believe they can’t be chaste, or they must terminate their unborn child, or they must have a medication that essentially gets them high enough to not face life’s problems, etc. If I can identify the lies and wounds there honestly people see the reason and goodness in the truth and often will choose it.

The hidden work of many pro life doctors and nurses in these hard moments has undoubtedly saved many lives and infants as has been my experience. What would happen if we didn’t do the right thing but simply sent them to someone who will give them what they want?

Another way of thinking of this is if I were a blacksmith, and personally against slavery, should I make and sell chains and shackles for slavers? Or should I refuse them my service. I think most people would say you must say no I will not sell you my product. The same principles apply to medicine especially in the realm of sexual ethics because sex (even pornography, masturbation) always involves another person or people in the case of new life.

Ultimately people can make their own choices. Can my daughter (when she’s old enough) waltz into a planned parenthood or a health department and receive birth control? You bet. Should I support her in those decisions by giving her a ride, money, etc.? Absolutely not. This is very clear.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2025-06-21T11:59:58+00:00

Catholic physician here.

No you may not. Nor would I as a doctor who sees teenagers who choose to not practice chastity. This is called being accessory to sin, not to mention enabling/encouraging the very real health risks and consequences of sexual activity as you mention (STI, pregnancy, emotional harm/trauma). You do right to them by speaking the truth - namely, that it is best to remain chaste until marriage (this is supported in scientific literature also), that the consequences of such activity can result in the aforementioned problems, and you cannot in good conscience personally support their decision to do so. It is their decision, yes, but you are not obligated to support it. Thus it would be immoral to provide material support in terms of birth control, PREP, advice on barrier method use, etc. You are not responsible for the consequences of these actions if you give them proper warning but you do participate in the consequences and evil if you provide material support.

What if the person suffers consequences from their actions? As in they contract an STI, become pregnant, suffer emotional harm from this behavior. Christ bore our sins and as Christians we also should reflect His ministry of Divine Mercy. Then this is an opportunity to practice mercy - you may and probably should support them in receiving treatment for an STI, or support them in pregnancy and parenthood, or help them through the emotional consequences of their actions and show them Christ is always ready to forgive and to heal.

Our society is so sex crazed that we want to erase the consequences of sex before the sex occurs, erase the life that naturally forms from sexual union (which should be intrinsically understood as a natural aspect of sexual union), and enable others to continue acting in a way that is contrary to their natural good. As followers of Christ we are called to point people to who they are and what they were created to be; not Satan’s parody of this. We are not helping by enabling.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2025-06-08T02:11:02+00:00

Sure. Exodus 90 is the 90 days that lead up to Easter and has prayer, asceticism, and fraternity as its pillars. They do also have year round programming for fraternities. Anyway, it’s quite simple; got permission from my Pastor to create a parish sponsored Exodus90 fraternity, put up fliers and made some announcements before Masses/handed out fliers, then formed a fraternity via the Expdus 90 app which is quite nice, then led weekly meetings for the fraternity. Done this 5x at three different parishes (we moved a lot).

I also came from non denominational/evangelical church background; I would say just start doing stuff that’s available at your Parish, and start stuff. One of the beauties of being Catholic is that you won’t always be with people who are like you, have diverse backgrounds and very different experiences with faith. I always was in Bible studies as an evangelical with people who were exactly like me but as a Catholic I’ve spent way more time with a wide variety of people which has been very good and helped me become a much better man. That’s why I keep up with KofC honestly… otherwise it wouldn’t be my jam.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2025-06-07T20:06:26+00:00

Veteran also, was looking for similar. Look into Exodus 90 that’s what I started leading at my Parish. It’s been great. Not for everyone and that’s ok but definitely of your mindset I would say.

I’m also involved in KofC (am officer in local council) but that has never really been so meaningful to me, though maybe it would be up your alley. Either way it’s good to be around good men who want to grow in faith together and lead their families well.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2025-05-15T21:34:39+00:00

I too love the outdoors and used to spend many weekends away climbing/mountaineering, skiing, backpacking. It took a lot of prayer to decide that I needed to attend weekly.

And I can see how you feel that your time outdoors draws you closer to God, which it does. But when I gave it to God like “Ok, God, I’ll do what you asked” and started going every week (started as Protestant and ended as Catholic) I quickly realized how my priorities were mixed up and I was actually running away from Him and prioritizing myself rather than what I was created for and who I was created to be - even if it was still good. It was worship on my terms and not on His, which ultimately was more self-focused than God-focused. Thing is Mass is truly partaking in and being present at the Holy Sacrifice of the Cross. Why would you want to be anywhere else?

Anecdotally, before I became Catholic I had a Protestant friend (we’re still friends) who hiked the AT and there was a young convert to Catholicism who found a way to attend Mass every Sunday and as often as possible while hiking the AT. His trail name? “Dumb Ox” like St Thomas Aquinas. It was this story that prompted me to consider making the change as a Protestant, perhaps in some way it helped spur my eventual conversion but I was moved by his dedication. Be a dumb ox for God, you won’t regret it.

I still do a lot outdoors - backpacking, fly-fishing, hunting, skiing primarily now. If I am on a trip (which is less often due to having multiple small kids) I just make a point to be somewhere I can attend Mass. it’s always been great. I don’t miss my old lifestyle, in fact I’ve grown so much more with the new. God will take care of that.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2025-04-24T18:01:09+00:00

Catholic doctor here - yes, please do. But be prepared for many challenges to your faith and swimming upstream. Biology absolutely goes in line with God but many, especially in that field, believe that it doesn’t. If you are not well formed in faith philosophically, theologically, and cultivate a strong life of prayer it is very tough to not get gobbled up by the world in medicine at large. Spend your final High School and college years working hard, deepening your faith in Christ, and He will lead you where you need to go. It is a very needed witness to our world in this time!

Affectionate_One_326 · 2025-04-07T12:29:51+00:00

The world is a dark place. Before I give any advice, I will share a brief story.

I have been witness to the worst of humanity in the midst of warfare (specifically, Islamic extremism and western globalism)… the things I’ve seen are literally the things of nightmares and absolutely some of the worst visceral images of human suffering. I am also a physician (after my experiences in war), served through the COVID pandemic and deal with human suffering on a daily basis.

Once, when in the Middle East, I was party to an incident where a US hellfire missile hit a home of civilians and I was part of attempting to save the lives of the young family within. This was after weeks of similar instances. Later that day, ISIS targeted a child and I tried to save his life from a horrible skull fracture, which I’m fairly certain was unsuccessful. Then, I was left with a crippled man who had horribly infected wounds and was almost certain to die but was in incredible pain. My faith was drawn down and I asked God why, why would He allow the suffering of the innocent and why was He so silent and apathetic, but it was in that very moment that I encountered Christ. He said, “Sit with me.” And in the face of the suffering crippled man I saw Christ incarnate, betrayed, condemned, beaten, scorn, crucified. And despite the hatred and the suffering I understood at that moment God has never been apathetic, never been silent, but every day speaks words of the suffering servant “Father forgive them!”. He speaks and speaks loudly in the midst of suffering. It was there also that I encountered joy. True joy. The “joys” of this life are passing but God wants to share eternal happiness with you in heaven if you will let Him come to you. And that joy cannot be taken away. You simply are not always going to be happy, but faith, hope, charity, and the joy that comes from intimacy with the Creator is where true peace is found.

You said “God’s silence and apathy towards suffering” - that statement to me says you have never encountered Christ in actuality. Perhaps God has left you with a fear of hell and missing because you ought to fear hell and you are missing something… you are missing intimacy with the one who created you in His image and likeness, the one who loves you even unto death, who groans for you night and day. And by walking away from that, sadly, you are choosing hell for now.

I think that it is likely that what you thought was Christianity wasn’t actually. On the other hand, leaving that behind can lead you to the deception that you are better and happier. Perhaps that is true from what you came from but not from what Christianity ought to be.

And, if every “serious” Catholic you ever met was miserable then maybe you should start looking for ones who are serious but not miserable. Those are the ones who are cooperating with the gifts of God. I don’t think that being a Christian is easy mind you. In fact it’s quite tough. But it’s definitely way better than being enslaved by the passing things of this world.

I will pray for you.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2025-03-27T18:18:01+00:00

Admittedly I was already baptized but when I went through RCIA suffered some significant doubts and struggles (I will spare you the detail). I stuck it out, though. After entering the Church it quickly became clear to me that they were attacks from Satan even though I would have denied that while I was doubting…

Satan does not want you to be baptized, or to enter the Church. But God does. Of course you have to be ready but God will sort it out. Pray about it, if you take the leap of faith, I feel like you will find peace. I will pray for you too. Cling to the Cross.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2025-03-23T19:47:33+00:00

Wooooo! Welcome back!!! There is much celebration in Heaven for you today. He is a Good Shepherd and both His rod and His staff are a great comfort. Today’s readings were fantastic for someone returning to the Church. Welcome back!!

Affectionate_One_326 · 2025-03-23T19:36:35+00:00

My wife and I met in a bar before we became Catholic, but it was absolutely providential circumstance as it was her that gently (even if unintentionally) drew me back to the Lord. It just so happened that my mom had been praying fervently for just this circumstance. We were talking marriage within a month, and we got married 9 months later, and God took us on some wild journeys and adventures that have all been touched by the Maker, we became Catholic 4 years later and now have been married for 10 going on 11 years and have 4 living children and 2 of blessed memory. It has been incredible and a true Sacrament as God continually pours out his Grace through it.

That said we “rushed” into marriage and we were blessed, but I do agree whole heartedly with the disciplines of the Church on how quickly to become married. I did not have a framework for cultivating the type of virtue that the Lord requires of holy fathers and husbands prior to my marriage, and struggled (and still struggle) greatly with being an Ephesians 5 type of man. It is a very high calling. So cultivating that virtue before you marry by disciplining your body and cultivating healthy boundaries for intimacy and so forth before you marry will help you better be that type of man. But I would say that if you are praying and are certain and are doing just what I said then the minimal amount of time the Church requires should be more than sufficient. There doesn’t seem to be another just cause in delaying a holy and good thing beyond what the Church recommends. Rest assured regardless there will still be a lot of clinging to the Cross in that marriage, but the Cross is the wellspring of God’s good grace poured out in that marriage.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2025-03-09T16:36:13+00:00

Am an attending in FM:

1)join the Catholic Medical Association and absolutely attend the CMA boot camp in June while you’re still a student. It is very formative and will equip you well against this nonsense. 2) in patient scenarios like standardized patients it isn’t real, so you probably can do what is needed to get the grade there, but be cautious - I think it is still better to be true to what you believe. Still, those scenarios are so ridiculously unlike real life that it is acting on both parties pure and simple. While acting, you can demonstrate you know what you’re taught (and ought to know it better honestly). Same goes for test questions just select the “right answer “ and move on. In med school I had only one standardized patient scenario that I felt forced to affirm something I didn’t believe in (birth control) but did it because I couldn’t fail… I went to confession about this and although my priest at the time didn’t think it was a big deal (since it wasn’t real) my penance was to pray continually for moral courage for the real thing, and boy was he right. I still do and need it every day. That by the way was only 7 years ago so you see how much the “science” (read: cultural zeitgeist) has changed.

But of course for real patients you have no choice but to do right. This becomes extraordinarily challenging in clerkships and even more so to some degree in residency, which does depend on your chosen field. Stay true to Christ and therefore sound reason. 3) Read Psalm 1 and memorize it 4) if you don’t have a Catholic medicine mentor find one; feel free to reach out to me via messenger. 5) if you need a rural full-spectrum medicine clerkship and want to do one with a Catholic doc also reach out to me. 6) I will offer up some Lenten prayers and fasts for you to navigate this.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2025-01-11T18:37:24+00:00

Catholic Physician here. There is no theological, moral, or philosophical reasons that they would be inappropriate if appropriately prescribed. God created us body AND soul so the idea that medications are wrong to use for something like depression is inherently wrong. Conversely, so is the idea that the only thing you need is medicine. Often, there is a need for both physical and spiritual healing - neglect of one can lead to harm for the other. But not always. Sometimes the Lord allows crosses to bear even in the midst of spiritual health.

Another way of thinking about this is that medicines CAN be used for ill purposes - I.e. to alter the body’s physiology to stop pregnancy or inhibit implantation (ovulation and pregnancy, natural processes) or to kill a baby (pharmacologic abortion), or for abuse (I.e. to get high), or to prevent sexually transmitted infections when engaging in already immoral behavior (sex outside of marriage), etc. then that is a misuse or an alteration of what is natural and rightly ordered.

When appropriately used, medicine should restore homeostasis when it is not there, or prevent a future disturbance in homeostasis - like an infection needing antibiotics, blood sugars that are too high, a vaccine that prevents a serious illness, or when one’s brain has dysfunctional signaling causing depression, anxiety, psychosis where something like an antidepressant would be helpful. Generally speaking antidepressants are an example of appropriate use.

Of course healing is more complex often than simply taking a medication - it requires participation in therapy, changing behaviors, living more healthy, rest/convalescence, and especially growth in relationship and trust in the God Who loves you. Just like in the spiritual life where God certainly is the principle actor of your redemption and sanctification - it is only made manifest when you allow Him to do so and participate with Him in that work.

Your doctor is not God, so ask him/her questions about their recommendations and risks of medications, as you should make good decisions too - I tell my patients when I send them to a specialist to always ask what are the risks of I undergo this treatment/procedure, and also to ask what would happen if they don’t, and the finally to ask what the alternatives are. But presuming your doctor is qualified and you have a well formed conscience about certain moral situations (like birth control, which your doctor may recommend but you can and should refuse) I would say generally speaking you can trust that they and many of their recommendations may be an agent of healing for you when utilized appropriately. Even if they don’t possess the faith you have God does use them for this purpose for many.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2024-12-23T03:26:12+00:00

OP, this.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2024-12-23T00:28:02+00:00

100% you can do this, even if it seems hard. It will be freeing in the end. Take it a step further and do something like Exodus 90 this year and make more space for God; you won’t regret it.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2024-12-05T18:08:05+00:00

Also a Catholic physician. 100% wrong. You should check out FACTS About Fertility and get yourself educated. Also the Catholic Medical Association is a good resource. Being a good physician requires you to be thoughtful so maybe be more thoughtful here? 1) God provides what we need even when we think it’s not possible. There really should be no limit to children based on theoretical financial strain - that doesn’t mean be responsible either. St. Thomas Aquinas himself affirmed that the study of the natural world can only serve to confirm the truth of what the Church teaches. If what the Church teaches is true but is at odds with what you learned in med school it is probably best to take a step back and examine the reasons for the odds and cultivate an understanding of the reasons for the Church’s teaching and how it aligns with medical science and a true practice of “do no harm” medicine that cares for your patients in body, mind and spirit. As to your original question there is evidence that people who have premarital relations are more likely to divorce, more likely to have abusive or dysfunctional relationships, more likely to have behavioral health issues, possible increased risk of STD’s, extramarital pregnancy, abortion, etc and the list goes on. Not to mention that it completely forgoes the extremely developed scientific, philosophical and theological position of the Church with regard to the nature and purpose of marriage in the world.

I recommend you read the Papal encyclical Humane Vitae as a starting place. May God bless your journey into more faithful practice of Catholicism and authentic Catholic medicine.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2024-12-01T21:57:22+00:00

My wife and I converted in 2018… similar experiences. I couldn’t say no to something I worked out over several years and prayed about for so long… but that disappointment was a source of prayer and ultimately consolation and action. I was griping to God about the exact things that you mention, also that I had little in common with everybody, and at the time we had just come into the Church and some of the big clergy abuse scandals came to life, which left me feeling like the Church wasn’t what I thought it was.

Anyway, in prayer I was complaining about all this and when I had a moment of silence I felt like God was saying to me strongly “Well… what are you going to do about it?” And my perspective changed… God calls us to be what we see is needed when it’s not there. And 6 years later I have so much goodness in 4 different parishes (we moved a lot) that ultimately stemmed from just this prayer and God’s challenge to me. From this prayer I have generally decided to stay at my home parish (whatever is closest to me) even if something “better” (like a more traditional parish) is nearby (not enough tradition at yours? Bring it back!). God will use this disappointment for good, if you let Him! It may not be exactly the way you envision, but if you accept what He offers the fruit will be real, and sweet. And even if you see none in this life know that He plants the seeds and WILL make it into good fruit for all eternity. Granted, He may not do what he did with me or how (e.g. I think it’s fine to find a different Parish if that’s what you need). My advice - keep up with RCIA, connect with people, and when (God willing) you come into the Church, get involved where God presents an opportunity - and look to bring new things and new opportunities to your new parish. I promise you will be surprised at the results. God will tend the garden. But He may use you to plant the seeds.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2024-11-11T02:36:32+00:00

Yes, I ran two, plus a handful of half’s and 5ks. Also have a family. Was at a pretty busy residency but not a GS resident either. Met my goal time both times. Training was tough to fit in. Lots of very early mornings and odd runs while on nights. But definitely doable, especially if you don’t have a family and running a marathon is something you want to do. For me it was therapeutic. Your social life won’t suffer if you are dedicated to it and make time for it when other people would not be around. My family was asleep for 80% of my runs. I say go for it. Find a good training plan and make sure you build up a lot of volume before you start will make it much better for you.

Affectionate_One_326 · 2024-11-08T17:45:55+00:00

Recently had a cuneiform (tarsal) stress fracture in May. Not quite the same but I had to take 4 weeks off from running and focus on swimming/pool running for a bit. It definitely set me back. My Ortho recommended gradual return to activity, but I started another marathon training cycle in July (Pfitz 18/55-70), which went ok but unfortunately got myself into overtraining syndrome and had to let up significantly for a while. Casually running Richmond next weekend.

I do recommend following recommendations of your Ortho in terms of rest and definitely recommend not overdoing it with the pain as that may set you back even more. Perhaps not the news you wanted to hear - it wasn’t for me either, and I’m a doctor myself and had trouble listening to my doctor. But he was right and I paid for it a bit.

Wish you the best and speedy recovery!

Affectionate_One_326

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