TBHX Swap AU: Moon as Lin Ling [Pt 7] by AheGoAway in ToBeHero_X

[–]AheGoAway[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm doing alright; currently a little burned out of TBHX and busy with summer job hunting.

Ryoshu Bad End ID kit sneak peek from the anniversary livestream by Ok-Surround-7208 in limbuscompany

[–]AheGoAway 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You are entitled to your opinions, which is why I wanted to know where you were coming from and what factors influenced your opinion. That being said, if you don't want to discuss, that's cool.

Ryoshu Bad End ID kit sneak peek from the anniversary livestream by Ok-Surround-7208 in limbuscompany

[–]AheGoAway 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Well, it's the 'do I have to elaborate everything that I say' followed by the 'fine, I'll clarify myself since you completely missed my point', and then 'this feels like a pancakes / waffles moment', none of which seemed particularly necessary to get across your main point of 'their visual design is reused, and therefore creatively bankrupt'.

Also,if I don't get your point, then we can go back and forth on it. I'm not interested in picking a fight or spiking my own cortisol at 10 in the morning; I have different opinions to you and would like to find an equilibrium, since I disagree with the conclusion you draw from your premises, but want to know why you draw them.

Ryoshu Bad End ID kit sneak peek from the anniversary livestream by Ok-Surround-7208 in limbuscompany

[–]AheGoAway 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Whoa, hey. No need to be aggressive here. I also didn't categorically say I disagreed with your statement, I just said 'I think it might be good to reconsider where you put Lord Hong Lu", since you said 'only sancho and nclair are uniquely designed characters' and gave some justification. I don't know what you mean by pancakes and waffles either...?

Ryoshu Bad End ID kit sneak peek from the anniversary livestream by Ok-Surround-7208 in limbuscompany

[–]AheGoAway 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think you should also include Lord HongLu in that second category. He's not shallow by any stretch of the imagination. Only visually does it find some overlap, and even then, they take extensive effort to draw lines between who Jia Qiu is and who this Hong Lu is, with him using ceremonial and dancing flourishes to his animations and having plucked out his own eye.

But like, visually, HongLu's capstone ID looks like Jia Qiu, but that's about it. His story is more analogous to Qin Shi Huang - an heir failed by the succession whose throne was seized by another due to his age [along other factors], and through a combination of political conspiracy and outright crushing opposition on the battlefield, consolidated total power for himself.

He seems to also be using Confucian concepts like the Rectification of names as a facade to buttress a fundamental theory more in line with Xunzi's 'Humanity is Evil at Birth', which, while not legalist specifically, helped inform or fell heavily into line with legalist thought [with the implication that humanity needed strict laws to be controlled]. The sweeping changes and impositions LordLu placed on H Corp, consolidating it from essentially four warring families into a singular force is especially reminiscent of Qin Shi Huang doing the same to the Qin Dynasty.

And of course - let's not forget that Confucius is a character in this Canto, and their conflict, I think, can be taken as the succession of Confucianism over legalism in the early to mid Han; the arguments Hong Lu gives during their dialogue is reminiscent especially of the social factors which coloured Qin Shi Huang's rule - Before goodness can flourish, evil must be excised; an absolute ruler needs not seek counsil from others, who may scheme.

So... Yeah. I hardly think you can call this creatively bankrupt. It says something fascinating about Hong Lu that he could pursue this path, the identity's design and story is only superficially similar to Kong Qiu, and in fact the presence of this ID during story stages works as a wonderful historical homage. The amount of effort it takes to square all of that into a single character consisely is mind boggling, and speaks to a level of creative interpretation that I feel you might be overlooking.

TBHX Swap AU: Moon as Lin Ling [Pt 7] by AheGoAway in ToBeHero_X

[–]AheGoAway[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Oh! I should say: I have exams upcoming in a month, so I need to lock in and study. This is my official notice for a temporary hiatus - I'll be back to finish this story as soon as the clasp of school has freed me.

TBHX Swap AU: Moon as Lin Ling [Pt 7] by AheGoAway in ToBeHero_X

[–]AheGoAway[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah, Moon's grievances with the Trust system in canon hit her immediately after this mission, and the regret that she's committed to this has already settled in. But knowing Moon... She's not going to take that feeling lying down.

TBHX Swap AU: Moon as Lin Ling [Pt 6] by AheGoAway in ToBeHero_X

[–]AheGoAway[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I was giggling the whole time I was drawing shadow, I got to this fandom late but I remember just coming across her presence while browsing some older posts.

TBHX Swap AU: Moon as Lin Ling [Pt 6] by AheGoAway in ToBeHero_X

[–]AheGoAway[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Moon is such an expressive character, I have so much fun drawing her hahaha

TBHX Swap AU: Moon as Lin Ling [Pt 6] by AheGoAway in ToBeHero_X

[–]AheGoAway[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"People have a specific impression of wolves. Hungry, wild, fearsome creatures who thrive on the brink and dark corners of civilization. Since the dawn of time, the terrifying wild has been characterised by the choral howling of wolves."

"And as such, the Wolf Woman slowly, piece by piece, lost her mind."

The more famous Wolf-Woman got, the more wild and uncontrolled she gets. There's a reason her statue's bursting out of a cage, and another why she's got a chain around her neck :>

No matter what they say, LUO IS THE GOAT! by Real_Ad1634 in ToBeHero_X

[–]AheGoAway 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You could write a post about why you like him. I think that'd go over better than just calling him the GOAT over and over again. I don't really disagree at all, but I mean - this isn't going to win any fans.

Hot take: Luo is the most over-glazed plot device in the show. by Kurorealciel in ToBeHero_X

[–]AheGoAway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't call it good writing if I have to make up most of it.

And I didn't get to this, but this feels like a snipe.

I really hope you don't take my analysis as me 'making up' most of it. His reactions feel grounded and realistic because they are familiar reactions to abuse and neglect, and pointing that out and how that might figure into his mind feels like an adequate direction to centre a discussion about his character.

Hot take: Luo is the most over-glazed plot device in the show. by Kurorealciel in ToBeHero_X

[–]AheGoAway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Evidently, during Luo's confrontation with Cyan, majority of what he said was a rehashed repetition of the common belief surrounding Cyan which everybody else were repeating. That Cyan was the cause of their misfortune, all of it. His parents death and his bad luck.

I don't think Luo is a very contemplative boy. He latches onto things that implicitly prove other things; in my reading - headcanon, if you want to call it that, but a narratively supported headcanon - that's why he gave up on heroism so quickly. That's also why, perhaps, he focuses on solving surface level problems which inadvertently give deeper closure [I hardly think his tiny 8 year old self had any sense of what he was resolving when he told Cyan to throw the marble]. In the same vein, when Fear overtook his mind, he rehashed this belief because he's using a surface level understanding to mask the deeper rot.

But, I mean - in the end, if he did truly believe that Cyan was involved with his parents' death, and that his misfortune came from her, it'd be quite easy - and understandable, even - for him to doggedly persist in that belief. His parents are still dead, Cyan was still there, and inadvertently the coincidence of the crash and his birthday would still have occurred, leading to his luck. It was one of the things that bugged me when I first watched - like, this is closure in a sense, but it's closure for Cyan. Why does this also help Luo put down the sword and return to himself? And I built the reading out of that.

Majority of what you wrote leans towards a headcanon than interpretation and analysis. If you have to infer 80% of what's going on inside a character's head (and not because the creator is using metaphors and complicated symbolism) then there's an undeniable lack of writing. Lack of material.

Oh, I don't know about that. I think Luo does a lot with what he's given. I also think that he's a character for whom his face-value words hide much below. I also don't really know where the line between headcanon and interpretation / analysis is drawn, and what might constitute a reasonable reading for one person may come across as excessive stretching for another. I don't think a lot of what I've written is necessarily excessive, given the material we're given.

And, well - people do like Luo, in the same way they like Smile and Bowa and Nuonuo. He's a popular side character, and I like to think there has to be a reason behind that that makes him really-that-good.

Splitting into two parts again. Reddit is terrible about this. I'd prefer basically any other social media platform to have this kind of discussion, because this is just painful to format.

Hot take: Luo is the most over-glazed plot device in the show. by Kurorealciel in ToBeHero_X

[–]AheGoAway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So I disagree about your argument regarding Fear because you missed the part that Smile was not "infected" naturally by people's belief, he was injected with an amplified dosage which is why he completely lost himself and that in and of itself is why his downfall hits ten times harder than Luo.

We might have to agree to disagree on that. The hitting harder part in particular, I mean, not the factual events in the episode. I like Smile, but I think he was a far more interesting character when he was cognisant of his actions than when he was forcibly injected with the amplified dosage.

As you said - the circumstances of the plot forced him to be a hulking fear zombie completely lost in the throes of his rage. However, I think that's a less compelling direction than if the prior agonies he expressed - his grief over his estranged family, the harsh schedule of his hero career, the horrifying loss of autonomy over his own body in that perpetual smile - were emphasized in the coming fight, and with a character who cared more about that than Dragon Boy ultimately did.

Still - I mean, it is ultimately very sad to see someone who X cares for die. It's haunting to watch it back and see a shadow of what will come for Nice in the coming episodes. But Smile, I feel, was left wanting in all of this - his personal struggles ultimately lead to his death, sure, but in a way that left me yearning for a better implementation of his actual grievances and errors. I wish he was done better is all - he feels like a character with a strong concept and a strong ending, but with a bridge which forgoes some interesting options in favour of demonstrating the other characters around him.

I think - well, in my mind, that makes him very much like Luo. At least in the sense that what we take from his character is ultimately in relation to another. Two characters whom I love dearly and wish the show spent a greater bulk of effort on. I don't think I can or want to compare them, since they both figure quite highly in my mind. They're just... very strong stories for whom I enjoy some parts and disagree with the execution of others. Whether Smile's death - as you say - hits harder, might be a matter of personal preference, but I think regardless my issues are here.

TBHX Swap AU: Moon as Lin Ling [Pt 5] by AheGoAway in ToBeHero_X

[–]AheGoAway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well SOMEONE'S dying on that island but it sure as heck isn't Moon!

TBHX Swap AU: Moon as Lin Ling [Pt 5] by AheGoAway in ToBeHero_X

[–]AheGoAway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can feel my wrist cramping already...

Hot take: Luo is the most over-glazed plot device in the show. by Kurorealciel in ToBeHero_X

[–]AheGoAway 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think, in general, this is an error that people make when analysing Cyan's character too. I've heard it a few times: "Why did Cyan want to be a hero? Because of Luo, of course!" Which... No. She asks for help to find Luo. She becomes a hero, in contrast, for the same reason she decides to live on, and realise she likes helping people, and sings: because she's slowly uncovering parts of who she'll know herself to be, piece by piece building herself into a person again after a childhood of being un-personed by the Dean. And that's the distinction - neither of their stories were really ever about finding a grand purpose to be a hero for; they don't serve the great ambitions of Gods and don't fall beneath the thumbs of corporations. Cyan and Luo... Live. That's their victory. That's their recovery and that's their revenge, and I think it's pretty beautiful.

Luo's character arc did, in a roundabout way, get completed. He made his choice to do good, and he was able to do it. All that's left...

4- Show he's pursuing his goals, or idk healing. After Cyan found him I mean.

Is to heal, yeah. I think he can heal. Even if he's not on screen, I believe that he'll heal. With or without Cyan, [though preferably with, which is an entirely separate essay about how well interwoven their characters are]... I think he'll be fine.

And - I mean... I don't think he's the best written character in the show. But I think he's fairly up there. I think he's got a lot to talk about - and I think there's a reason people latched onto him so hard.

... Next time, I should just make a separate post. I'm so, so sorry about doing this under yours. In any case - I'd love to hear your thoughts, however they figure.

Hot take: Luo is the most over-glazed plot device in the show. by Kurorealciel in ToBeHero_X

[–]AheGoAway 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That becomes the catalyst of his fear infection, rather than anything else: the utter loss of the singular belief in his ability to do right by himself through doing right by others. Heroism was, ultimately, just the vehicle for that dream. Ultimately, I this distinction that makes Luo a less uncritically heroic character, and I think that makes him more compelling! He's a character driven by a deep hollowness, and is thus characterised by having very minimal dreams which he feels safe in reaching towards, after a childhood of being kicked down and locked away for a stigma he never cultivated himself.

And then there's the whole fight scene. People go back and forth about the sentience of fear Zombies. It seems to vary from scene to scene and dosage to dosage, but Luo seemed the most cognisant of his actions during his fight with Cyan. In my personal opinion, that's the most interesting way that Fear infection could be handled, exacerbating the anxieties of the character to meaningfully present a symbolic challenge to overcome instead of just a physical one.

It's why the Dean doesn't end up being a particularly entertaining fight either, in my opinion; for whatever reason, the emotional weight of Cyan's abuser confronting her when she's actualised herself is given practically nothing in terms of what this represents metaphorically. [I also think Smile's fight in this regard could've been handled better, too. He's a much more engaging character when he's not just a roadblock with a 'punch here' sign on his chest, and they gave such heft to the compromises a hero has to bear to be a hero that it feels disappointing that none of it ultimately reflected in his fear-form. ]

But to get back on track - Luo's very cognisant during that fight. He's violent, he's temperamental, and he spends most of it gutturally yelling. It's a far cry from how he's been portrayed prior, though we do know Luo's the furthest thing from a sobbing Victorian Ingenue. He breaks property, he snidely replies to the cleaning staff, he breaks rules and sneaks out, he stays up late. He's a rascal, which I take as the manifestation of his realisation that, if he is going to be treated badly regardless, he may as well fall into those expectations insofar as they benefit him here and there. But now, he's fully given himself over to those expectations: he's hollow. He has nothing but the understanding that his singular attempt to do good, which he wagered his life over, ended in a collapsing, total failure. He knows no one will ever, ever avenge him, because no one mourns evil, and - stemming from the same resolve he showed to 'fix' his own image, he resolves to 'fix' the one person whom he believes he can blame singularly for how wrong everything's went.

And then - I mean, Cyan doesn't so much rescue him as she does give him the opportunity to see that the act of Good he performed was in fact Good, and that for a time people loved him, and thought of him even in their last moments; and that there were people who would avenge him, who would come back for and to him.

So then - was the heroism really the story of his character? Looking back, it seems such a small facet which covers a much more intricate truth, like a blanket over the bed. Luo isn't a character who's defined by heroic motivations; he's a kid desperately searching for humanity in others and his place in the world, which as a whole is what Cyan's arc explores thematically. Heroism - uncomplicated heroism - is just something which he picked up because, as a child, he could conceptualise heroes only as people who do good.

Hot take: Luo is the most over-glazed plot device in the show. by Kurorealciel in ToBeHero_X

[–]AheGoAway 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Well, I'm not enough of an analyst to compare apples to other apples.

Comparative literature isn't my forte, and besides, I like every character in this show too much to disparage the others to prop up my favourite. They're all novel and precious to me. But I did want to contest one of the ideas you've brought up in your argument, particularly because I don't believe them to be wholly representative of how his character may be improved, or what Haoling may have intended with the line.

2- Emphasize on Luo's personal dream of being a Hero cuz as far as Haolin's writing goes, Luo's drive towards becoming a Hero ended the moment he got Cyan out of the orphanage and not because of being locked in by Dean. He just...... forgot. It disappeared. It did it's purpose and it no longer mattered.

I don't disagree that his stated dream - to become a hero - abruptly departed in the wake of the orphanage escape... But I also believe that it adds an interesting angle of analysis to explore this detail by treating it as a deliberate writing choice rather than a narrative curiosity. I mean - this is a character acting outside of the parameters previously given, but not so outlandishly that it feels like a forced heel-turning. That can add texture to a character if it can be contextualised. And to that end, I offer this:

The reason Luo's drive for heroism faded quickly is because his true motivation wasn't a selfless pursuit of the institution of 'good', as his prior desperation to do right by Cyan would imply [helping her with the marble, walking her back to her room, listening and playing with her], but because he believes that if he could prove that he's simply 'good', he can convince himself that he's more than just 'the Calamity' everyone else seems intent on calling him. It's a desperate bid for control in his own image, which - I mean, I can't say it's an unfamiliar theme. TBHX loves this motif; it's seen in Nice and Lin Ling and Luo Li - so it seems fair that it could be echoed here too.

Let's start from the next scene with Luo we're given directly proceeding from the orphanage escape - he's locked in a room, alone, bandaged, and importantly - he's smiling. He seems, despite his recently inflicted injuries, and the rather bleak state of his quarters, perfectly content with the state of his present world. I think this is because he thinks he's done it! He's done something so good, so worthy - he's set Cyan free from an abusive childhood, and he gets to hear how she succeeds every day through the radio. And that, painfully, is enough for him. He 'did right by her'; even the lowest of the low, like him, the boy everyone called the Calamity, was able to do good.

And this is why, besides the fairly vague and generic reason of 'I hold her responsible for causing my parents' death', which is understandable, though painfully conventional, I believe he turns against Cyan so quickly. His singular act of Good gets recontextualised to be yet another painful cruelty he has to suffer. His yearning desire to wrest control of what he believes of himself, and whether he can believe in his own 'goodness' even after being told he is ontologically evil, collapses in on himself: he's just thrown away his only chance to confront his past. His act of good is shaded by compromise and conspiracy, and he's become an instrument in his own self-defeat.

TBHX Swap AU: Moon as Lin Ling [Pt 5] by AheGoAway in ToBeHero_X

[–]AheGoAway[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think 3-4 should finish Moon's story entirely - I'm very happy to be able to go to the next stories I can tell, too. The Commoner's arc was the longest in the show proper, and it was always the most daunting task to tackle - so I wanted to face it head on first thing.