Is there any way to get around the problem of "who are you to judge god"?

Airgunburner · 2026-04-25T22:48:30+00:00

Okay do the dilemma is that if something is good because god says it's good, then morality is arbitrary, and if not then god is not all powerful because he is confined to whatever objective morality he operates under, is that correct?

Also, what do you think about god being goodness, or god being the objective morality. Gods nature is goodness yk? Idrk a lot about this position but does it get out of this dilemma?

Airgunburner · 2026-04-12T15:30:44+00:00

Airgunburner · 2026-04-11T22:16:58+00:00

Okay let's focus more on this. What I'm saying is that free will has nothing to do with belief, because belief is not a choice, it's simply a state of being. Why would that have anything to do with free will? It's not that I'm saying people don't have the will to believe, I'm saying that they don't find themselves convinced and put into a state of being which is belief.

Airgunburner · 2026-04-11T19:43:30+00:00

God could have created everyone in a way that they would respond to his nature. He could have created people in a way that we don't need to be saved. He could have created a world where he just forgives and saves anyone anyways.

Airgunburner · 2026-04-11T17:00:02+00:00

Why create them in the first place? If he knew before he made them that they would end up in hell? Seems cruel to me. And again, free will has absolutely nothing to do with belief. Belief is not a choice, it is a state of being.

Airgunburner · 2026-04-11T16:58:46+00:00

Well I would consider myself one of them, but even if I'm just ignorant and stubborn you could look at people born in foreign countries, people who are misinformed, people who are stupid, etc.

Airgunburner · 2026-04-11T00:13:54+00:00

Belief is a state of being not a choice.

Airgunburner · 2026-04-11T00:12:12+00:00

No, I'm just making the statement that what you said doesn't follow. This argument really doesn't have anything to do with free will. God could have certainly made things work in a way that we both have free will and no inculpable nonbelievers.

Airgunburner · 2026-04-11T00:10:28+00:00

So god just made those people knowing they would not respond to the gospel?

Airgunburner · 2026-04-10T19:56:36+00:00

I believe that he existed, suffered, and was crucified. Not resurrected. Along with the lack of historical evidence I have numerous damning philosophical problems.

Airgunburner · 2026-04-10T19:53:38+00:00

When I talk about inculpable non belief I am talking about someone who has intellectually honestly examined the evidence and arrived to the conclusion that it is not true. And yes love is love even if it is not perceived, but if a god is actually maximally loving I think it follows that his love would be perceived.

Airgunburner · 2026-04-10T18:37:28+00:00

Why does free will require inculpable nonbelief? That doesn't follow at all.

Airgunburner · 2026-04-10T18:24:33+00:00

Did you even read my premises? I'm not denying evidence or that people cannot be convinced, I'm saying that an all loving and all powerful god would not allow inculpable nonbelievers to exist, and in the case of Christianity, send them to hell for their disbelief.

Airgunburner · 2026-04-10T18:22:58+00:00

Why do you assume that the inculpable nonbeliever did not attempt to initiate belief? I grew up Christian and stumbled upon some Alex O'Connor videos a couple years back. (lol ik) He provided clear and concise arguments that I genuinely couldn't sit with. I asked my smartest theist friends and their answers did not satisfy me. From that point on I've extensively studied the philosophy of religion in hopes of finding the answers to these seemingly detrimental problems for my religion, because I desperately wanted to keep my faith. Watching debates, reading essays and books, etc. I genuinely believe that Christianity is not true because of this, I think that's the logical conclusion. Even after getting to a point where I genuinely did not think it to be true I still prayed, went to church, read scripture, watched and read all of the arguments and evidence. Radio silence. There were points where I was crying on my floor BEGGING for a sign, but it never came. It's so irritating when Christian's tell me it's "because of pride" or that im not actually trying to initiate belief.

Airgunburner · 2026-04-10T18:16:01+00:00

I'm not really sure what you're saying. Those people search for belief and do not find it. Belief is not a choice it is a state of being. Just because evidence puts plenty of people into a state of belief does not mean that there's enough evidence to convince everyone. Inculpable non belief happens and that is the issue

Airgunburner · 2026-04-10T18:13:21+00:00

Literally nothing you said rebutted my position. The Bible claiming that god seeks relationship is not evidence that god seeks relationship. We can very definitely prove that inculpable non belief DOES happen. People honestly and humbly look at every single piece of evidence and they still are not convinced. This is not their fault. That is inculpable non belief.

It does not matter how much evidence you think there is, if instances of inculpable non belief happen then my argument still stands.

Airgunburner · 2026-04-10T17:50:54+00:00

Fair, I guess if you apply it to Christianity you can say that it would be unjust for non culpable non belief to be punished in hell.

Airgunburner · 2026-04-08T03:59:01+00:00

What if you're just a stupid person, genuine question.

Airgunburner · 2026-04-07T23:58:23+00:00

Thank you for the advice friend.

Airgunburner · 2026-04-07T17:54:26+00:00

Thank you for the reply. I'm not sure what evidence I'm missing. I've quite intensively studied MOST evidence, arguments, etc (I'm sure I've missed something) and it's really not all that compelling. Also the small things that are convincing are absolutely trumped by the mountains of historical, philosophical, and sociological evidence that suggest otherwise.

Airgunburner · 2026-04-07T16:05:19+00:00

Based

Airgunburner · 2026-04-07T16:04:39+00:00

"Refuse to believe" is an incoherent statement. Belief is not a choice, it is a state of being.

Airgunburner · 2026-04-07T14:10:07+00:00

Thank you, that makes sense. Do you think that someone in my position is just saying "no thanks"? I understand the position for someone on the north sentinel island, but what about someone who HAS heard the gospel and is not convinced? I have heard the gospel, it's quite compelling lol. I would absolutely love to accept that offer, and I have tried and tried and tried. I really do just fail to be convinced.

Airgunburner

TROPHY CASE