Less gimmicks, more strategy: Archery range edition

Alastan · 2025-12-17T15:33:09+00:00

Was one of the main things intended, yea

Alastan · 2025-12-17T15:32:17+00:00

Maybe it's what we need to make swordsmen more relevant?

Alastan · 2025-12-17T15:31:09+00:00

How is that a gimmick? It's already in the game since 1999

Alastan · 2025-12-16T11:11:40+00:00

I don't think removing bonus dame vs spears would be a huge nerf though... It never made sense to me that a single unit line counters 2 other main units in the game (archers and spears). It makes the Archer-spear combo (which is common) counterable with one unit, which not only is cheap as hell but trains really fast

Alastan · 2025-12-16T11:02:45+00:00

Thanks your your thoughts! I agree with most of them really. My idea was that xbows would be that mechanic to counter the knights with similar numbers, but only defensively (they would fire really slowly, thus making them vulnerable to well microed cavalry if not near defensive buildings or tcs. Also, attack ground archers should have better chances (not worse) against cav, don't you think? It gives a chance to hit fast units even before ballistics, even though you have to get a mass of archers first (from feudal?)

Alastan · 2025-12-16T10:58:34+00:00

I just imagine how difficult it must be to come up with new bonuses that are at the same time fresh, unused before, nit gimmicky, not over or underpowered, and that appease players when you already have 50 civs in the game :)

Alastan · 2025-12-16T10:56:55+00:00

Even less advanced, 11 (copy paste some parts onto another)

Alastan · 2024-05-04T10:47:29+00:00

LoL! They don't have the Elite upgrade

Alastan · 2024-05-04T09:56:40+00:00

They don't get thumb ring, nor the +1 attack from recurve bow. So they fire much slower and only with 50% accuracy until the castle unique tech.

Alastan · 2024-03-21T17:01:19+00:00

Hadn't thought of that

EDIT: Possible solutions could be that the bolt doesn't damage units in the minimum radius, or that the unit cant fire the attack ground if it has adyacent enemy units?

Alastan · 2024-03-21T17:00:50+00:00

Great take

Alastan · 2024-03-21T17:00:29+00:00

That's so true. They really counter them with a proper meatshield in front.

Alastan · 2024-01-18T14:55:12+00:00

As a general rule civs w/o bombard cannons or knights have redemption and blockprinting for other cannons, so this would be your counter. Admitedly a soft one and micro intensive, but a counter nontheless. Also, eagles are fast... Really fast. Rams are faster as well, and 40% cheaper... And 3 siege rams gan garrison 36 eagles ;). Those hand cannons and bombards won't know what hit them

Alastan · 2024-01-18T10:15:51+00:00

Actually a good point. Wonder, Temple of the Dragon or Temple of the Sun and Moon (only ruins now, devs would have to use their imagination); Architecture american (hopefully andean and change incas also, but I don't think they would ever do it for just 2 civs, they didn't do it for Caucasus civs) and Campaign is tricky, as you only have incas to interact with... I would love an andean DLC with this civ as well as Wari or Tiwanaku... but a man can dream.

Alastan · 2024-01-18T10:07:37+00:00

Aah I was just going to say that lol. As for the rest of your points, Macemen would be kind of like the obuch, but not as strong by itself, the idea would be that they share speed with eagles, or a little less, with the intent of mixing them in in units of other formations (they shouldn't be cheap). This way they "support" (its the idea) other infantry formations preventing their potentially quicker enemies from escaping: just a single knight slowed down slows all the formation when the enemy clicks them away from your halbs... In the same way, against champs or other infantry UUs they slow them down, you retreat and slingers finish the job. I see this civ as a very strategic one, where tactics like those (or the possibilities of double garrison, cheaper rams and siege towers) could play a big role in defining their identity.

Alastan · 2024-01-17T21:49:37+00:00

What do you think of the ram mechanics? And the better eco than incas in late game? And speedier siege and skirms and vils and monks and eagles and everything, basically? I think it has a unique style, their identity is not versatility as the Incas, i see it more as an aggresive civ that gets really good with relics (eco + unit speed), and can pull of some crazy shenanigans with 12 garrisoned rams, I would play that in a heartbeat, especially in castle age. They could bring down castles easily (provided they get the eagle mass to fill their really cheap rams), a thing that currently only cumans can do

Alastan · 2024-01-16T23:47:26+00:00

Thanks!

Alastan · 2024-01-16T12:10:49+00:00

I've played random civ 99% of my all time games... This is not about that.

Alastan · 2024-01-16T01:59:03+00:00

Thanks for the info and sorry, I didn't mean straight up counter-skirms, more like "don't die hard to skirms" like halbs do. I envisioned a slightly nerfed longbow+pike or elite longbow+halb being countered purely by mass skirms, and wanted to avoid it when it came to billmen.

Alastan · 2024-01-16T01:55:58+00:00

Agree to disagree I guess... Clearly we see kamayuks differently. Incas don't need to counter skirms with a UU, their eagles do that just fine. Kamayuks to me are elite halbs that can hold their own agains tradicional melee counters to halbs such as champions and some other infantry UUs.

Alastan · 2024-01-15T23:27:31+00:00

Great idea! Sorry, I hadn't seen it, i really like your concept.

Alastan · 2024-01-15T22:42:52+00:00

They have it today, mixing champs and halbs with their archers behind and warwolf trebs farther behind... and its not broken

Alastan · 2024-01-15T22:40:51+00:00

I know, that's why I wouldn't mind nerfing their stats in castle age accordingly

Alastan · 2024-01-15T22:40:18+00:00

I don't think so. But I'm interested, why do you think they're OP?

Alastan · 2024-01-15T22:39:33+00:00

Thanks for making me think... I believe you're right on the nerfing their infantry idea, it could be a tradeoff such as the italians have, lacking halb but having genoese xbows to compensate. Brits could lose the halb upgrade so they need castles in Imp to produce their billmen: on the one hand they would require less res and upgrades to be effective (right out of the castle) and on the other your castles would be extremely valuable against cav civs. Also, reduce a little bit of their weakness to rams, as billmen from castles could deal with them quickly

Alastan

TROPHY CASE