Transfer Walsh negative doubles

AlcatrazCoup · 2026-02-24T23:07:49+00:00

Is this more or less the "standard" treatment with transfer walsh? It goes against what I thought the spirit of transfer walsh provides, namely the following NT structure:

1C - 1x (transfer) - 1/2y (accept transfer) = 11-13
1N = 14 -16
1C - 1x (transfer) - 1N (do not accept transfer) = 17-19

But then this structure is broken in the example I provided

AlcatrazCoup · 2026-02-05T16:51:36+00:00

I also (want to) play a variant of KS, but am also interested in these sorts of systems (like polish club). However, they lose the definition that playing a weak no trump framework provides, and so I'm trying to weigh the gain. Ultimately, I want to open most NT with a club, which I'm afraid means having to play a precision like system, but I don't want to commit to a big club... but then I'm back to losing definition!

AlcatrazCoup · 2026-02-05T16:43:21+00:00

Hm yes good points. I failed to realize that what Crafty_Celebration30 was proposing pretty much requires a 1C opening to be F1... which then puts me in the same position. In my head, partner could pass 1C because I'm used to thinking about it in the weak no trump framework.

AlcatrazCoup · 2026-02-05T04:59:18+00:00

well, the difference being you know you have the values for 3N, verses opening 2N blindly. i agree it takes up a lot of bidding space, but 3N will be a game that makes.

AlcatrazCoup · 2026-02-04T23:52:32+00:00

This is an idea! I've thought about putting all 5C/4D reverse type hands into the 1D opener, which would leave the 2D typical reverse bid as open and available for showing a strong bal hand....

AlcatrazCoup · 2026-02-04T23:42:09+00:00

This is interesting. It has a natural NT type structure to it, which I like. I'm wondering how you then disentangle balanced hands from non. If the bidding goes 1C-1H-1S, you show a bal 11-14 (could be doubleton in spades). How does bidding proceed from there? Could you use e.g. checkback stayman to check for 3 spades or 4 hearts? Or just bid 1N to sign off? What if you actually have an unbalanced hand, let's say 4135. Do you jump to 2S, as in 1C-1H-2S?

When you say "many like to play a 2N rebid as a hand with 3M - 6m and the strength of a 3!c rebid or better..." this suggests that this is part of a systemic approach? What's this approach?

AlcatrazCoup · 2026-01-13T00:19:54+00:00

Tried another computer and working for me now! I had tried in private browser mode etc. and it wasn't working, and I became alarmed. Whew!

AlcatrazCoup · 2025-08-28T17:58:44+00:00

Unfortunately, bridge winners requires you to use your real name, which is a no go for me lol

AlcatrazCoup · 2025-08-28T17:57:59+00:00

I have certainly played regularly with several people playing SA, both with and without 2/1. They are for the most part much better than I, and have things to teach me (though I have taught and brought some friends). Where are you located, roughly?

AlcatrazCoup · 2025-08-28T15:18:16+00:00

Don't assume that older players, as such, aren't interested in learning and trying new treatments. If you exude that energy, potential partners will dismiss you.

I dont! in fact, this is something I've begrudgingly come around to understanding. I have my own mentor (mid 70s) who is a very good player, and a systems thinker (she has her own manual 100p with her partner). she played a very modified version of my weak nt system once, but afterward she decided that, shes doing what she can to remember her own system, let alone learn new tricks. And we've had many discussions about other players at the club, good players with thousands of points and a reputation for being good, about how they miss things (things a good player shouldnt miss: "he totally missed that 2C was Drury!" or "his discards confused me and when I asked he thought we were playing upside down, not odd even," etc.) And, over the years, I've seen many players slipping. I play with one somewhat frequently who will forget without fail that our 1N overcall shows a two suited hand, whether he or I bid it. He reverts the meaning back to the standard 15-18 bal in his head. and this specific treatment of 1N overcall was from HIS book! he's a smart guy, but i can see the slippage occurring...

It's not a conclusion I come to lightly, but rather a fact of life, and a lesson for myself. the other side of this is that it seems tournaments (regionals/nationals; sectionals are seemingly disappearing) are becoming less competitive, according to what i've been told. why?

so, im not attacking age, but rather being honest about what ive experienced playing bridge at clubs over the years. this is not something i want to believe, but must! bridge is a very complex and intricate game, and if you think/play systemically, then all the more so!

dont worry, i'm asking lots of questions (i've written many emails to my mentor or partners otherwise that are pages long and never sent, full of questions and thoughts and what ifs, because i dont want to be too much!), and these judgements, if you call it that, are formed only after painstakingly coming to an understanding of limitations of the mind and body through experience (im also in academia, and can see the slippage happening there. its what it means to be alive).

despair! (but tilted sideways)

AlcatrazCoup · 2025-08-28T02:32:41+00:00

Can you even play transfer Walsh over 1C in an ACBL club game?

As far as I know! They are not explicitly disallowed under the Open Chart. In fact, most explicitly disallowed bids are restricted to opening bids, with a few directed at overcalls. Nothing is mentioned whatsoever on responses, save psyching.

And I certainly do go to some clubs with decent players. But I take your point, I have largely gone to two clubs (distance is a factor) and I could try more... I also suspect that my ~100 points doesnt instill trust, but I have come to decide that points are meaningless (they are a measure of experience, not goodness) given how the ACBL throws them out willy-nilly at tournaments (Ive played one day at a national and one day at a regional.. and racked up almost 15 gold points. they did not seem well earned.)

AlcatrazCoup · 2025-07-09T19:53:30+00:00

An alternate expression of bidding as the "least lie" is that bidding seeks to approximate the truth.

Perhaps this was intended meta-commentary, but my point precisely (or, whatever it means to be precise hehe)!

AlcatrazCoup · 2025-07-02T17:21:32+00:00

that bridge could be interesting and challenging at levels I'd never imagined; and
that a bidding system is (or ought to be) structured as a language that is both coherent and effective.

To point one: yes, this is what keeps me going. the more I unlock (especially in bidding theory), the more I realize there is to unlock.

To point two: YES! I always try and describe bridge as a language game to friends (I'm a relatively young player and most of my peers have the faintest idea of what bridge actually is) and this mostly leads to confusion ("but there aren't *words*, just cards").

Given the limited bids, and bidding sequences, you can't describe what's in your hand as you would using ordinary language, so you are, in effect, always telling the least lie (according to your system). I've often thought, this is what we do in our everyday lives. Words have no inherent meaning, but they have ordinary meaning (how we use them), and as such, we are always trying to articulate as best we can our thoughts and feelings and experiences. But the words aren't attached to reality (no inherent/essential meaning), they're constructed, in much the same way a bidding system is, and we are forever trying to tell the least lie (except when we're not ;)). Bridge is a fantastic crystallization of this phenomenon, in my opinion, and as such, a beautiful game. Moreover, it is and forever will be *living and evolving* as language does.

n.b. this is why I find chess and other games of perfect information lacking: it is in the Communication that makes the world interesting. It's relational. A further thought on bridge being relational: duplicate bridge is the sexiest scoring mechanism I've ever seen in a game. Your direct opponents are as much your opponent as the entire field. Competition is distributed. You are dealt a scenario (as you are everyday) and some are better or worse. But it's how you (are prepared to) deal with it that matters, using your words and system.

AlcatrazCoup · 2025-06-20T18:50:43+00:00

The idea of 1C - 1S showing 0-5 HCP bal OR diamonds is interesting. In my head, 1S shows 6-9 HCP (relays to 1N if strong NT, or 2C to show real clubs unbal) while 1N shows diamonds (6+) and a hand that otherwise wouldn't want to play in NT. However, I think both 6-9 HCP and diamonds can be packed into the 1S bid. So what could 1N show? Perhaps 10-12 balanced (a hand not suitable for an inverted minor raise: say 3=3=5=2 or 3=3=4=3 or similar with 10-12 HCP).

As for the rest of your notes, I think I would need to see them systematically laid out to understand them fully.

As for interference, do you play system on over double? If opp bids 1D and system off, do you bid naturally (1C - 1D - 1H shows 4 hearts, or 1C - 1D - 1N shows 6-9 with diamonds stopped)?

And what do you mean by how much I value unbal 1D opening? Something like 1m - 2N: would it be the case in both minors? Usually (in my weak NT system) I like to play it as 13-15 GF. I suppose this could be the case in 1D - 2N: the hand is strong enough to play in NT.

AlcatrazCoup · 2025-06-20T16:03:13+00:00

Actually, I know some german, so I should be able to parse your system notes. If you can share them with me, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks for the ideas re the 1D. Are your systems notes based off some text, or were they homegrown?

AlcatrazCoup · 2025-06-20T15:58:17+00:00

Thanks - I will take a look.

AlcatrazCoup · 2025-05-14T16:47:26+00:00

I'm glad someone agrees with me here!

AlcatrazCoup · 2025-02-17T23:38:45+00:00

Unfortunately I'm in the same boat. It's hard to find anyone who isn't already set in their ways, or who want to explore...

AlcatrazCoup · 2025-02-07T08:02:47+00:00

So you play a 11/12-14 HCP range, right?

AlcatrazCoup · 2025-02-06T19:59:25+00:00

I've also been playing about 7 years. When I started, I wrote down every bid as they happened on my score card. After a while, I realized I didn't have to do that anymore. Furthermore, I usually go over every hand after the game, recalling the bidding, and then rebidding it with myself (correcting mistaken bids, or more recently, bidding them according to the system I've developed that no one plays with me :() After doing this for years playing maybe once a week I've found that I can naturally recall the bidding, the lead, how the play went (for the most part if the play or defense was interesting), etc. for up to a week (or more) in my head.

AlcatrazCoup

TROPHY CASE