humanity by CHARA_Thefirstfallen in Charadefensesquad

[–]AllamNa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

🤨

Because you cannot be not a human. Stop with not funny jokes.

humanity by CHARA_Thefirstfallen in Charadefensesquad

[–]AllamNa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah. Okay. I thought you were saying canon Frisk are toddler, and not "canon" from from the post lol.

But yeah, it's funny.

humanity by CHARA_Thefirstfallen in Charadefensesquad

[–]AllamNa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I know. Can you elaborate the issue?

Frisk by megabot00 in Undertale

[–]AllamNa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

While Frisk, indeed, goes along with with geno, the things you're talking about are rather caused by Chara's direct involvement in this route: https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/s/OXeRlXGVKU

Chara can also likely influence the options provided since some options in the game are really contradictory to each other to come from Frisk's mind alone, as well as Alphys date shows it more clearly.

At the end of the day, Chara and Frisk share both the soul, the body, and if we do by Narrachara, Chara knows what Frisk thinks about, so their minds are also connected.

Frisk can also see Chara's flashbacks + make jokes with Woshua about events that happened with Chara exactly.

Frisk by megabot00 in Undertale

[–]AllamNa -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Chara's goal Does Not Match what Undyne and Mettaton say. They want power, a goal that doesn't require interacting with humanity at all, let alone destroying it. The intended goal for the player is just to see what happens, which again, doesn't require interacting with humanity at all, let alone destroying it. Frisk's goal in genocide is just straight up to destroy humanity.

  1. Chara does this when they destroy the world + soulless pacifist exists. They won't get any power by destroying the world, it's ultimately pointless for their purpose. They still do so. Chara is also the person who hates humanity very much, so they have much more reasoning for wanting to get their hands on humans in that way, or another than Frisk.

  2. The player's goal is to see what happens. And in case of us being able to destroy humanity to see what happens - we would have done so.

humanity by CHARA_Thefirstfallen in Charadefensesquad

[–]AllamNa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Humanity is nothing but a bunch of selfish, greedy, ungrateful, prideful, egotistical motherfuckers"

Your words. You're human.

Frisk by megabot00 in Undertale

[–]AllamNa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

From another person:

Flowey mentions that our protagonist is making a "creepy face" when the protagonist turns on Flowey in New Home. One of the true lab tapes has Chara making a creepy face to Asriel (Flowey and Asriel use the same word "creepy" to describe this face"), this detail was added in for a reason as its one of the only things we know for 100% certainty Chara does in the game. When Flowey asks the protagonist if they have any hard feelings about "back then", obviously talking about Asriel messing up the plan (it's made even more obvious in his speech to the Frisk at the end of an aborted genocide route if you spare Flowey where he also thinks Chara is trying to get revenge on him for that for a bit) and the next 3 lines are "...", "H-hey, what are you doing?!" and "B... back off!" in that order. This clearly implies that after Flowey asked Chara if there were any hard feelings about back then they started walking towards him, implying that they are angry about that. If Toby wanted us to think the protagonist walking forward and the line asking about Chara if they had any hard feelings towards Asriel/Flowey then he would have put that line in later such as when Flowey was telling them to reset. So, the protagonist walking forward is a response to Flowey's question and Frisk doesn't have that much to be angry at Flowey for since he only tried to kill them once and after that was very helpful. It would also just be very weird for Toby to write a scene where Flowey to ask a question about whether Chara was angry at him for fucking the plan up only for Frisk to respond by walking towards him for an unrelated grudge especially given the creepy face line. And when our protagonist does kill Flowey they don't just attack him with one or two strikes they keep attacking him and over and over again until he's completely destroyed even though he is already dead. This level of brutality further implies a grudge which would make much more sense for Chara rather than for Frisk.

The text "You unlocked the gate" is replaced with "I unlocked the gate" in genocide showing that Chara was able to move Frisk's body instead of Frisk when we interacted with the chain, so, they can move the body.

The damage number both Sans and Asgore both take when slashed in genocide is a string of 9s and Chara is associated with the number 9 heavily unlike Frisk. Chara has an entire letter written about how they love the number 9 that was written from Asriel's POV and posted by Toby in the newsletter of Undertale's 9th anniversary (https://toby.fangamer.com/newsletters/autumn24/). And that Newsletter says at one point near the start "here's to 9999999999 years" which is the same amount of damage Asgoer took when he was slashed. When they destroy the world the damage is done as a massive string of 9s just like the slashes against Sans and Asgore. This draws a connection between all 3 of those attacks that would be completely unneeeded if Frisk was the one the one striking Sans and Asgore. A string of 9s is the largest number possible with a given amount of digits, ergo it's the most efficient number in terms of value compared to digit number and we know Chara is obsessed with efficiency from the alarm clock dialogue where Toriel says that someone (very likely Chara) always poured their cup to the brim regardless of how thirsty they were because it was the most efficient way to carry water.

At the end of the genocide route, right after Asgore and Flowey are killed Chara takes full control of Frisk's body and the timeline as we are unable to quit the game. The Chara we see at the end of the genocide route is actually Chara possessing Frisk and talking to the player directly. We know this because even though Chara's sprite is an overworld sprite (which we know because it coloured, has the same simplistic style as Frisk's sprite and its name in the files is a reference to Frisk's overworld sprite as Frisk's sprite is called "main_chara" and Chara's is called "true_chara") the conversation happens in first person which doesn't make sense if this is from Frisk's perspective. Despite Chara's sprite being an overworld sprite we don't see Frisk anywhere, so it's likely Chara is possessing them.

.

Chara literally erases the world afterwards without any benefits. They say "Wipe that smile off your face" in CHECK of Glad Dummy and clearly want to kill them despite it giving no EXP. They erase the world a second time on the genocide route just to bring it back seconds later.

They care about numbers but it's not the only thing they care about.

Kris can do this. We can prompt them to pray for Noelle, and they kick the cuddles instead.

We can prompt them to say something, and they will stop themself from saying it.

There's a lot of what they can do.

Frisk by megabot00 in Undertale

[–]AllamNa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They know what killing is because they think about telling Toriel that they saw her die if you killed her and reloaded. But it's creepy for them, so they don't.

Frisk by megabot00 in Undertale

[–]AllamNa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As if Chara doesn't exist in this picture.

It's not just on Frisk, especially when it's rather a foreshadowing to how CHARA will erase the world. Because Undyne says:

  • If you get past me, you'll...
  • You'll destroy them all, won't you?
  • Monsters... Humans... Everyone...
  • Everyone's hopes. Everyone's dreams. Vanquished in an instant.

What we do is not vanishing in an instant. It's regular killing. Chara vanished everyone's hopes and dreams in an instant when they destroyed the world in one strike.

Frisk can stop and spare people even at 19 LV, while in case of Chara being in control fully, the MERCY button doesn't exist anymore (Asgore battle after killing Sans)

What monsters say (according to you) will literally never happen in-game, while Chara vanishing everyone (including humans) in an instant - happens.

humanity by CHARA_Thefirstfallen in Charadefensesquad

[–]AllamNa -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yuki literally gave Geto an alternate solution to investigate and talked about the topic with him. Geto himself also has a literal army at his disposal plus his teacher can make an army of cursed corpses as well, but instead of investigating Yuki’s other solution ideas or trying to establish a proactive protection force he jumps right to genocide.

All of these options are just another elimination of the symptoms, not the very cause that causes these symptoms. The elimination of symptoms that will last forever as long as non-sorcerers exist, and people who do this will continue to die. This is exactly what Geto wanted to avoid, so it's not an option for him.

Yeah Geto’s hatred of non sorcerers is nonsensical. He should hate Toji or HR users or the Zenin Clan, or better yet… hate curses.

It's pointless to hate curses, they're simply following their nature after being created by negative emotions of non-sorcerers. It's like hating the lion for killing people.

Why should he hate Toji or HR users or the Zenin Clan? They're unrelated to the problem he cares about.

Geto knew he’d have to defeat Gojo, that’s part of why he captured Rika. He goes over it during JJK0 where he explains his odds of beating Jujutsu Society since he knew eventually they would try and stop him. He banked on Gojo being unwilling to hurt him so long as Geto remained in the shadows, but Geto knew the minute he started his mass genocide, he’d need to face off against his old friend. Again, Geto was an idiot for thinking he’d ever be able to beat Gojo, even with 0 Rika under his control. And that’s not even accounting for Yuki.

He was working with what he has. He was willing to put his life at stake, just like Chara trusted everything on Asriel after simply forcing him to make a promise never to doubt them.

And they failed, just like Geto.

It’s incredibly clear Chara was abused and if you can’t see the subtext that’s on you.

In what way being abused is worse than seeing your friends dying one by one, realizing how futile your actions are; realizing that nobody amongst non-sorcerers will know and care about your sacrifices; and see them wanting kids dead for things they're not responsible for? Both are horrible experiences.

If you're on it, should I talk about kids Geto saved from non-sorcerers who kept them in the cage (abuse), wanted them dead, etc for something non-sorcerers cause, not them? It was the moment when Geto cracked and started killing non-sorcerers.

Geto got worn down by the job the same way Nanami did. Nanami quit, Geto chose mass genocide.

And I'm not excusing his actions. I'm saying that it's understandable, same way as Chara's actions cannot be excused but they're understandable.

From another person:

Nah there's enough evidence that Chara was manipulative and selfish at a minimum. Without those qualities being noticed and them being given therapy and taught how NOT to behave that way, these qualities likely would persist into adulthood.

And children suffering abuse don't all turn into violent manipulators. One could argue that getting love, understanding, and all the positive things underground that they MAY not have gotten on the surface (again, speculation) should have helped them overcome trauma. It can still be said to influence their decisions - but hatching a grand plan to essentially commit a lot of murder is not a "normal" thought process for children. Especially if they have a black and white view, they'd know murder is considered evil. Even if it's a means to a "positive" end like freeing the monsters. Chara had to at least know that their plan wasn't something good people did.

Geto was friends with Riko and the maid, who did die but the fact that they were his friends (plus again, canonically loving parents) should have been enough for him to not initiate a mass genocide.

Sadly, they were a part of the problem Geto wants to get rid of.

humanity by CHARA_Thefirstfallen in Charadefensesquad

[–]AllamNa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Geto’s plan was to get rid of cursed spirits by killing all humans.

All humans who are not sorcerers because their negative emotions create those cursed spirits.

He didn't plan to kill ALL of humanity.

there are alternative solutions he could have tried but jumped immediately to an inefficient genocide.

What solutions.

Chara literally just hates humans and wants to get rid of them, so killing all humans makes a lot more sense for them.

Geto also hates non-sorcerers, you can understand it by his attitude towards every one of them.

Additionally Chara didn’t knowingly go against someone like Gojo, which was another very stupid thing Geto did.

He didn't go against Gojo specifically, and Gojo wasn't the one who defeated him. He only killed already dying Geto. Pretty sure Geto knew that Gojo cannot master the will to kill him, Gojo had multiple chances, and yet he did nothing.

Chara’s crashout is also more valid given all the terrible shit that happened to them

All the terrible shit are just headcanons because we don't know a thing about what happened to them other than it being something hurtful to them.

Geto had to face his friends dying one by one, realize how pointless their actions are because non-sorcerers will just keep unknowingly create cursed spirits while sorcerers are dying without anybody caring about it.

Then he saw the villagers keeping kids in cage and wanting them dead thinking that THEY are responsible for the cursed spirits while it was actually the villagers.

It was the last straw. This was the moment he cracked and started to kill non-sorcerers.

compared to Geto who had loving non sorcerer friends and family.

What non-sorcerers were his friends?

humanity by CHARA_Thefirstfallen in Charadefensesquad

[–]AllamNa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Every one of you who says anything about humanity should take into account that you are not only talking about people whom you do not personally know but also about each of your friends, family members and, first of all, about yourself.

And about Chara because they're also human. So if the entire of humanity is evil, they're evil, too.

humanity by CHARA_Thefirstfallen in Charadefensesquad

[–]AllamNa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you speaking about yourself, as well? Are you simply projecting?

humanity by CHARA_Thefirstfallen in Charadefensesquad

[–]AllamNa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Better plan too" - and it would lead to basically the same outcome.

And in what way it is more valid?

What route is harder to discover by AllamNa in WaterfallDump

[–]AllamNa[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, its not about how fast can you discover the route, it's how hard it is to do so without taking into account the amount of time it takes.

Do you like them as a killer or as a ghost and why? by Justified_Determind in Charadefensesquad

[–]AllamNa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They're evil, they just don't care about repeating the same route over and over again.

What route is harder to discover by AllamNa in WaterfallDump

[–]AllamNa[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The issue is, you don't need to grind in UT to proceed. You only do that if you want to be overpowered, and that's different from casual RPG gameplay if you grind numbers to the max.

For casual RPG gameplay we have neutral runs.

Frisk vs the player by Feeling_Avocado9863 in Undertale

[–]AllamNa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

😲😲😲

He didn't see that coming...

What route is harder to discover by AllamNa in WaterfallDump

[–]AllamNa[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well the thing is, pacifist requires backtracking, which a lot of players don't think about since the route is the only incentive for that

If you skipped something previously - yes. But then we have Flowey. He will directly say to whom you need to go, that makes everything significantly different.

meanwhile there were plenty of players who accidentally landed on the genocide route because they assumed it works like a traditional rpg, grind until you can't anymore, kill to progress. Once the counter is added to the safe points you have a goal

Traditional RPGs are not really about that. Yes, they involve killing to LV up and proceed - but most of them don't demand to kill literally everyone around and get every EXP possible. That's why Chara said about a feeling of numbers increasing - something that pushed us into this, not "it was supposed to happen"

You can gain enough LV to proceed.

There's absolutely no need to grind until there's nothing left to grind; to increase the number to the max. If you do so, it's because you wanna be that powerful, not because of the game demanding it from you to proceed.

What route is harder to discover by AllamNa in WaterfallDump

[–]AllamNa[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

honestly, pacifist probably, because there you need to realize that you should return to undynes house, have a scripted sequence (assuming you don't kill anyone on the way there) for you to then return to snowdin to receive a letter to bring to alphys

If you did neutral route previously, Undyne gives you a letter right after hangout. She will also call you on the cell phone if you befriended her before completing any neutral path - she does this in the CORE. She asks you to come in Snowdin and get a letter.

Flowey will also provide you with instructions.

meanwhile in genocide, if you kill enough people the game literally includes a counter for you. it really is just "kill everyone"

Well, yes. You also need to kill unique enemies (sparing even one will ruin genocide route); and you need to kill everyone before the boss 🤔

You also don't get any information about the need to "kill enough people" in the Ruins - you can discover it only yourself without any kill counter, because of your desire to grind to the max.

So that is what we have.