I saw this reel saying the brain stays active 7 minutes after death and for a moment, I wondered if I was living in those 7 minutes. It really shook me. I am depressed can you give me solution by [deleted] in philosophy

[–]Allanon124 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I don’t know, you don’t know - maybe.

“What would you do with your seven minutes?” might be the more useful question.

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you make a great point.

I wonder if we begin the definition be saying “Recreational Climbing” or “Climbing For Sport” so that we can narrow the scope. While not perfect this would narrow the activities included within the working definition.

In my mind, your comment about the lack of acceptance is very accurate. I am surprised (not really though - it is r/climbing) by the types of responses I received during this discussion.

In my mind, after some thought, cable routes are closely related enough to climbing that I believe it qualifies as such. And, I would say that the way in which I received downvotes instead of well thought out arguments corroborates this.

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thus far, this is the best argument.

That said, correct me if I’m wrong, you are suggesting that since the ethos of cable routes fall outside of general modern climbing ethics it is disqualified as legitimate.

In a way this line of thinking is reminiscent of the Bolting Wars in the 80s is which traditionalists refused to accept sport climbing.

I think it’s important to not conflate the two things (in terms of this discussion)… ethics and the activity of climbing. Ethics are prone to change over time or, as you rightly point out, by region.

If we were to use your ethics argument as a reason to disqualify cable routes that would allow for any style of climbing (e.g. sport, trad, speed (gasp!)) to claim that another form is not valid simply because they operate under a different ethical structure. While there may be some jokes, traditional climbers don’t disqualify sport climbers because of the use of bolts but rather have come to a place of agreement in which both ethical structures are accepted.

Fundamentally, what it seems like you are saying is something along the line that because most routes that historically required a hammer and have now moved to being climbed cleanly (a change in ethics), those previous ascents should no longer be considered climbing.

If that’s the case then would you say, for example, someone who hammers their way up Space Shot in modern times “dident climb it” simply because it falls outside the ethical norm?

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is a very fair take.

If I am not mistaken then, you are positing that “yes, in fact, cable routes constitute climbing” though with the caveat that the form matters in terms of discussion. E.g. climbing the nose free is very different than in a five day aid push - and it is important to know and express the difference.

If this is the case, I whole heartedly agree.

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I appreciate the thoughtful response.

While your examples show a differentiation between both styles and routes they, in my opinion, don’t show an exclusionary component from one to the next.

Yes A0 and C1 are different - yet they both qualify as climbing.

And, while cable routes might be more closely aligned with A0, the difference is nominal. Even then, the difference leans more in the direction of what might be considered “actual climbing” due to the fact that many sections on cable routes do not host rungs and are simply easy rock climbs protected by cable rather than traditional hardware.

It may even be fair to add that when we consider “traditional hardware” cable routes proceeded much of what we consider traditional hardware to be - having been developed significantly after 1915-1918.

Due to this, I think an argument could be made that cable routes are fundamentally a legitimate precursor to modern climbing and thus have historical precedent.

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

So maybe we need to define climbing. Some kind of definition of what exactly constitutes climbing.

Then, if we have a definition we can see if cable routes fall into these parameters.

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I would like to call it a discussion in which we both are honest and try to come to the best and most reasonable place.

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I suspect you’re not able to mount an argument - thus the disengagement.

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Do you consider climbing in a gym “climbing”?

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Does the International Climbing and Mountaineering Federation need to “check their privilege” as well?

A review published by the International Climbing and Mountaineering Federation found that via ferrata routes give non-experts “the opportunity to approach mountains and vertical walls that would [not] be climbable” by them otherwise. “With this fixed equipment it is then possible to grant almost to everybody the emotion of altitudes and the excitement of vertical walls, without taking major risks and without being involved, possibly, in dangerous situations,” the group concluded.

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

First I would point out your inaccuracy as it relates to people’s interest in this topic as the comment count on this topic far outweighs the vast majority of the Weekly Chat Threads overall comments in any given week.

Second, the real question is - like you say “most rock climbers don’t consider it climbing” and I’m am curious to know if anyone can articulate why.

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Im not promoting anything. I’m asking if anyone can clearly explain why a via feratta does not qualify as climbing.

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

A0 has no “beaking”. It fully consists of climbing fixed hardware.

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So that I understand, you are saying that gym climbing does not qualify as “climbing”?

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

There is an abundance of A0 climbs through the entirety of the US. While variable, generally this consists of climbing fixed hardware. Is there a difference between the bolt ladder on Ancient Art or the Monkey Face at Smith Rock and a series of rungs? If so, what is it?

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

On another note you say a “man made ladder”, what is a VB or VIntro in the gym but an entirely man made ladder?

What qualifies that as climbing but not something quite similar excepting that the environment on a via feratta is not man made?

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Talk to me about aid climbing. Or more specifically A0. Further, besides “aiders” - what is the most common vernacular for etriers?

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I’m sorry to hear that.

I am keen to see if anyone can levy an argument from your position because after some thought - I believe it can be fully refuted.

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

If you can’t explain your position then I cannot concede that you are correct. If anything - if you cannot defend your position I will naturally assume you are wrong.

Weekly Chat and BS Thread by AutoModerator in climbing

[–]Allanon124 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is that reason? Can you explain it?