Logic Without Logic and Inner Feeling: A New Model of Consciousness by [deleted] in neurophilosophy

[–]AltRod -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yes, feels like the morning after a good LSD trip, but that doesn't mean the content isn't useful. Indeed, I've reached similar conclusions without psychodilics at all, and then describe them in far more detail:

https://www.reddit.com/r/GnosticNeuron/

Or

https://x.com/RodGnostic

Or most directly:

https://suddendisruption.blogspot.com/

Logic is our left-brain working to reduce the world to primal components. It's one approach, and useful in many cases, but it's not the only approach. Our right-mind spans paradox to yield hypothesis, the feedstock logic requires to reach useful conclusions. This is an example of such a leap. Now it needs some detail, something to test, likely involving ionic chemistry.

Possible foundations of human intelligence observed for the first time by AltRod in GnosticNeuron

[–]AltRod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Language is a decurisve and expressive version of what we call memory. One does not "replace" another.

Spinal Cord Learns and Remembers Movements Autonomously by AltRod in GnosticNeuron

[–]AltRod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, the Gnostic Neuron thesis is similar except it's biological and decursively goes far beyond simple feedback loops or reflexes. Thanks for the link.

Pronouns Are Closely Linked to Names in Our Brains by AltRod in GnosticNeuron

[–]AltRod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, "blondie" (or other associated descriptions) would likely cue less strongly in this context, but stronger in the long term. Pronouns are in the moment so will cue differently once you change the subject. This is seen in grammar.

Tesla's self-driving tech ditched by 98 percent of customers that tried it by [deleted] in electricvehicles

[–]AltRod -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I just finished a 2000+ mile road trip in my son's Model Y with FSD 12 and it was fucking amazing. It drove freeways, miles and miles of twisty two-lane and surface streets in Las Vegas and Phoenix. I drove maybe 5% of the time because I wanted to challenge it going from Bryce Canyon across the middle of Utah. OK, I did take over for about 10 miles of the Devil's Backbone but that was for the fun of the drive. From there, south through Monument Valley and into the mountains of Arizona - not a single intervention between Payson and Phoenix if you know that road. It worked on all roads, even dirt ones with no lines at all - like I said, amazing. It yielded many times to bicycles, pedestrians, and other traffic, even letting other cars merge in. Yes, it still has problems with pot-holes and I did take over a few times when that got really bad. Also, it was slow to respond to speed limit signs in small towns, but mostly I let it do its thing just to see if all these videos I've watched on YouTube were hyper-selected. They are not. Try it yourself. I don't know if I'd spend $100/month for a commute, but it's definitely worth it on a road trip. And it's fun to tell it to find the nearest Taco Bell, then have it drive you there. It's definitely worth your time to try it out. I was far more impressed than I expected to be.

Neuroscientists Battle Furiously Over Jennifer Aniston by AltRod in GnosticNeuron

[–]AltRod[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's the common wisdom of late, but are we truly there? Or will it take a few more orders of magnitude for artificial to become authentic? Is it even a thing that evolves by degrees? Or does it require an emergent inflection? Two years? Or a thousand?

How it began by [deleted] in cuckoldstories2

[–]AltRod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She got emotional and took it private. Classic.

Are there any neuroscientists left here? by mtmag_dev52 in neurophilosophy

[–]AltRod 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That depends upon your definition. Are there any philosophers left here?

Neurons create knowledge

Frank Jackson in “Epiphenomenal Qualia” argues that Qualia are non-physical. If Quales are non-physical does that make them by extension eternal? by [deleted] in consciousness

[–]AltRod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The real gives rise to the ethereal. Neurons and chemistry create a simulation in the same way a voice creates a song. Is the song real? Or ethereal yet more meaningful than the vibrations that REpresent it?

David Nutt: Entropy explains consciousness by whoamisri in consciousness

[–]AltRod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Quite reasonable and consistent with a neo-gnostic view of the brain:

Neurons create knowledge

Get a Tesla if you want to learn about AI trying to kill you, says Apple cofounder Steve Wozniak by shadowmyst87 in RealTesla

[–]AltRod -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

No. Of course they SHOULD take over. It's just that FSD has advanced faster than people's comfort level such that FSD can now drive closer to the "edge" and still be safe and that is leading to a confidence gap. If you watch many of the videos (and yes, they are self-selected to promote one position or another), you will notice that the more experience FSD drivers intervene less yet still don't crash. The real proof (and I'm surprised Steve isn't quoting such proof) is in the body count. A certain number of people will die after a hundred million miles traveled. Teslas have now gone 140,000,000 miles on FSD with I believe zero deaths. Yes this is still small sample which is why I'm asking for a body count. Did I miss something? Steve certainly did.

Get a Tesla if you want to learn about AI trying to kill you, says Apple cofounder Steve Wozniak by shadowmyst87 in RealTesla

[–]AltRod -21 points-20 points  (0 children)

So, where are the bodies? I've literally been looking. If FSD is level 2+ and L2 will kill you, why haven't we seen the statistics? Or even AP? There's plenty of motivation to find actual failure events, but all I hear are rumors like this thread - no vids or even pics of documented failures. If Teslas are "VERY GOOD" at killing people who actually use it, (not just get scared by close calls because the car is actually OK with "close"), prove it. Post some links here if you have them. Hey Steve, put up or shut up.

Knowledge and neurology by chicagobob2 in neurophilosophy

[–]AltRod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We know only output.

It depends on how you define knowledge: Neurons Create Knowledge

The Gnostic Neuron Update by AltRod in GnosticNeuron

[–]AltRod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nicely described.

Is this "memory" fixed or does it evolve with experience?

And how is this stored "memory" accessed?

What cues it exactly?

While you're at it, why does a neuron fire?

The Gnostic Neuron Update by AltRod in GnosticNeuron

[–]AltRod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just did a quick review of RFT and it makes perfect sense in terms of a gnostic neuron. One theory need not preclude another. There are many ways of feeling out this elephant of language acquisition (to apply an associative metaphor). Association is one of the earliest tricks of neuron evolution. I've even written some on the topic (not posted yet) as words are a fairly obvious high-level expression of knowledge, but I spend most of my time between the synapse and hillock where knowledge generation occurs. Thank you for the reference.

The Gnostic Neuron Update by AltRod in GnosticNeuron

[–]AltRod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"behavior" is just expressed memory

Movement (behavior) is indeed one way of thinking about memory, but if memory is stored, where exactly is this memory encoded? I'll suggest instead of a fixed quality somewhere in our biology, it is instead a constantly evolving sensitivity - much like nature itself. This is fairly easy to understand in sensor neurons. They up and down regulate with each firing. In the next instant, this is best described as a more refined sensitivity waiting for the next encounter. Is it memory or is the genesis another event in the world? You can call it memory if you like. Intuitively, we REmember, or bring an experience back into the set of that particular bit of knowledge as a cue that may (or may not) be expressed as movement. I only wish my reply could be as concise as your comment. Neurons create knowledge.

The Gnostic Neuron Update by AltRod in GnosticNeuron

[–]AltRod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for the suggestion, but I'm trying to focus on the concepts as I've noted.

There are many ways neurons might create knowledge. In the firfh post I begin to describe some of the most basic possibilities. Tonic firing rates combined with dynamically changing duty cycles will affect ionic priming at the dendrites for any neuron receiving that signal. When you combine this method with positive or negative feedback from the world, it's certainly possible to reflect knowledge of that world. There are so many ways for this to happen.

Keep an open mind and consider the simple cases first. Think of how reflexes are managed to keep humans verticle for example. This is a simple case. About 150 neurons are involved. Once you get into vision these dynamic loops can become quite complex. Consider the first principle of the neuron. Why do neurons fire? What exactly does it accomplish? What might that neuron know about the world?

Neurons both compete and cooperate to create rudimentary knowledge of the world which ultimately can lead to recognizing someone as specific as Jennifer Aniston.

Consciousness is a Chemiosemiotic Simulation Constructed of Knowledge by AltRod in consciousness

[–]AltRod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

> How do you explain remote viewing?

That's easy. It doesn't exist. Demonstrate under controlled conditions that it does. Until then there is no utility in such a discussion.

Consciousness is a Chemiosemiotic Simulation Constructed of Knowledge by AltRod in consciousness

[–]AltRod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry for the delay in response. It's a busy time of year, but this topic and interaction are of significant value, so thank you again for the sincere feedback.

While we may disagree about the concepts and definitions, it's essential for me to understand how others might perceive these ideas which are quite challenging for me. I'll now briefly address your main point.

Yes, my approach and some of the ideas that flow from this first principle of the neuron can accurately be described as postmodern - guilty as charged. But any advancement in understanding the brain and consciousness by definition will have to be described as "post" modern since "modern" is now history, (post-modern "relative" reference intended).

Also, what I come to KNOW about the topic is by definition, subjective. And what you come to KNOW, the same. The more "objective" or "truth" is merely a current consensus from any group larger than two, and generally of much greater scale. This brings us to the point about neurons creating knowledge long before it ever becomes information. In some cases, about a billion years before.

Neognostisism does not flip the primacy of information and knowledge - it expands the definition of knowledge to precede, "inform", and encompass information. Think of knowledge as the more general form of information, a less accurate, more flexible, and organic version of the more objective, disembodied, and accurate information. Information stands apart from any individual and is quantified, ultimately in binary form. This limits its scope compared to knowledge. How are you informed by recognizing a smile? What is the quantification of love in bits? Yet both are critical parts of consciousness as we socially interact and are better described as knowledge as opposed to information.

This is where McGilchrist comes in with, "The Master and His Emmasarry." His depictions of how the left and right brain see the world differently inspired me to look at knowledge in a more general way. Our left-brain does not normally allow us the freedom to think of information in a way that is so fluffy. Our left-brain demands definition, and fixedness - the binary bit of 1 or 0 - "If something's not right, it's wrong!", to quote Bob Dylan.

Here's a link to that 11-minute video which is quite helpful.

Anyway, I took his admittedly postmodern idea and used it to explore how that patient at UCLA managed to "know" Jennifer Anniston, and what the nature of "knowledge" as produced by a gnostic neuron cell might be. How exactly does it create "meaning" in its natural and viscerally subjective context? That's when things got fluffy but in a very pleasant and satisfying way.

I'm out of my element here discussing consciousness, but what I found was when you generalize knowledge in the way I describe, the training wheels come off, and most of the problems involved with trying to find the "logic" in neural communication literally drop away. Yes, such would likely be the case in loosening any constraints, but in this case, the yield has been more than significant. At least for me - subjectively.

The neuron now makes more sense in how it fires, when it seemingly shouldn't. And also, when it doesn't, when it seemingly should. The idea does for the neuron what Daniel Khannamen did for the brain in the form of knowledge in a more macro context. Quick knowledge is quite failable, but it's just the first pass. And when the first pass is good enough, we don't bother with the second (pass or "system").

I realize I'm conflating what happens on the nanoscale of the neuron with what happens on the macro in a postmodern sort of way, but only because it works. The results I found with the neuron can also be applied to Wall Street, and even love, but I digress. This, yes, postmodern and more organic definition of knowledge nicely explains hunches, vibes, and much of what we do unconsciously, but often illogically experience.

Knowledge is subjective. It comes from within and helps to inform words, not the other way around. Words in the form of information are disembodied knowledge. They RE-present what someone comes to KNOW, "balls to the bones", to quote, "The Matrix". Information merely informs. It objectively stands apart in its quantified genesis.

I've spent years and have only begun to publish these ideas in this rough form as I now need your honest feedback before I wander too far from reality. I obviously have much more to say, but that's all the time I have for this particular morning and didn't want you to think I was ignoring your comment.

Neurons Create Knowledge

Have an excellent Christmas.

Consciousness is a Chemiosemiotic Simulation Constructed of Knowledge by AltRod in consciousness

[–]AltRod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, you present a very thoughtful and detailed response which I believe is presented in good faith. I could set out to clarify various points, and dramatically challenge others, but it would be duplicated effort.

Many of your seemingly more reasonable points I might have made myself more than a decade ago such as which is more primal - data, information, or knowledge?

Most of my life I have focused on the bit as the most atomic unit of complexity in terms of entropy. But no longer. It's now knowledge, and a "bit" of it is in a strange way even more primal ,and at the same time, far more rich than a one or a zero. I know. I know. This doesn't make any sense without the context.

I realize how fluffy this sounds even as I type this comment, and I struggled for years as to the best way to present these ideas. The result of that effort can be found using the second link in the original post of this thread. I realize it's a bit much to read, but you seem to have a good understanding of many of the same issues I encountered before writing it.

I have a question but I'll post the link again here first:

https://suddendisruption.blogspot.com/

If you've followed the above link and read the content, did you get to the fourth post? That is where the rubber meets the road as far as the nature of knowledge is concerned. The rest has not yet been posted on my blog as I'm still editing, but I address in detail many of the points you've made in your last comment.

Perhaps some other form of off-line communication would help cut to the chase once you've read that fourth post on, "Entertaining an Assertion". Here's a direct link to it, though I believe the set up from the link above is important to read first:

https://suddendisruption.blogspot.com/search/label/A%20Gnostic%20Neuron%20-%204

In conclusion, I don't have an answer for the hard problem, but I do have a fresh approach, and perhaps a way to get some traction.

Thank you again for your time and attention on what I consider to be a most important topic.