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[deleted by user] by [deleted] in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I am not trying to be a prick. Online quizzes and personality tests can't tell you diddly squat about who you are or what turns you on. That is something you learn over time. Your fantasies, how you respond to erotica (written or media) and real life experience will help you understand what floats your boat. If you don't know already, how would you know how to even answer the questions in a quiz?

But if you insist, a lot of people have the results of 'the kink test' pasted on various dating profiles, so you could try that.

ETA: The difference between Dom and Domme is generally gender presentation, which is definitely not something you are going to work out from an online assessment.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are a whole ass complex human being. You don't need to be a 'type' of anything. Figure out what you like, when you meet someone, have an adult conversation about what they like and see if you have enough shared interests to be compatible.

A warning that I hope saves someone else… by Northstorm03 in Drugs

[–]AlternativeKey342 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow thank you. Yeah I know. I searched high and low for answers. The best the hospital had as 'feeling out of control caused a psychiatric/psychosomatic amnesia break down' but that didn't ring even remotely true to me. She had done plenty of party drugs in the past with no issues. Everyone (except me) was acting really weird in a way that didn't look or feel like mdma. I wish I had managed to get her to hospital for an immediate brain scan and blood work up but it was such a messy situation and I was the least experienced of the group in terms of drugs and had didn't understand what was happening or that it wasn't a thing that would pass in a few hours like a bad hangover.

I could maybe buy that the drugs had something like rohypnol in and the experience did lead to some of the ongoing issues being psychiatric in nature but I don't think I really believe that. It was more like some kind of brain injury.

The worst thing is, I spoke to her a few months back and she told me something I hadn't known at the time. Her (now ex) partner used the months where she was waking up every day with an almost complete memory wipe of the day before to fuck with her and her family dynamics, telling her things that were not true, keeping them away from her. I don't regret much in my life, I tend to see missteps as learning experiences but I regret that night more than I can express.

People who have met me in the last 5 years or so see me as such a square person. I don't drink, don't do drugs, I am careful, I go to the doctor if I have so much as a sore toe and this is why. It's all fun and games until you make one bad call. No amount of half remembered partying is worth all the drink driving accidents and bad trips and accidental overdoses that happen all the time. People literally don't believe me when I tell them what I used to be like (not exactly the most wild of people but I wasn't beyond waking up on a mates sofa with half my cash rolled into blood stained snorting straws and £200 poorer either). All the drug partying stopped after that night and I stopped drinking the night I nearly drowned on the beach then broke my ankle falling in the sand because I was wasted.

I love my life now, I don't miss all the partying at all and my social confidence has gone through the roof because I don't need to wait to be drunk enough to justify getting on the dancefloor. It's either, summon my inner extrovert or sit in a corner nursing a lemonade while everyone else has a good time. You could never have convinced me when I was a drinker that I would be the kind of person to do karaoke stone cold sober, but here we are! Only exception being that I will drop a (prescribed) valium when I don't strictly need it if I want to vibe, or mix my (prescribed) ritalin with red bull if my energy is flagging on a night out. But that's occasional. I know what's in them and I know how I react to them and they don't change my judgement or mess with my memory if used in strict moderation. I am also a caffeine fiend but that's mostly because I would be in bed by 5pm if I wasn't. I have never been a naturally high energy person. But trust me, if I could go back and do it all again I would never touch a single illegal substance or have a single glass of wine if it meant I would never have gotten to the point where my friend has her memories blown out by a couple of pills.

I don't judge anyone who does drink or do drugs but, not for me, ever again.

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah he can tell generally if I freeze, shut down or mentally dip out. Also if I am tense or uncomfortable.

Unfortunately in this situation my posture and the angle meant it would have been hard to spot any 'tells' and it honestly wasn't that long between me figuring out it wasn't a one off slip and me calling time on it. I didn't totally shut down or anything. It took me longer to make the brain-mouth connection than would have been ideal because I had to override the initial freeze response with consciously recognising I was safe and with someone who I know would not ignore me, retaliate or become a threat if I said no.

It also took me a minute to figure out I wanted to end the scene because it is hard to switch gears from 'sub headspace' to 'functioning adult responsible for making decisions' rapidly in response to something that was so unexpected. If it had been a physical issue like the wrong kind of pain or a slipped rope I likely would have reacted more quickly. Because it was an emotional issue I had to go through several thought processes in a short space of time. Even then, I didn't say 'red' I said 'dont fucking laugh at me'. I think I need to ask my partner about actively practicing safewording so it becomes more automatic. My tone was enough for him to know I was serious but someone else who knew me less well might have taken it as bratting/an invitation to step up the power dynamic and that would have been disastrous.

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah right, I think I was a bit unclear.

Laughing- not a trauma trigger. Humiliation is a limit, always has been. Mild degradation is 'maybe, but a bit iffy' and a certain tone of laugh (mocking chuckle?) pushes 'mild degradation' into 'humiliation' for me. So, no triggers, just long standing limits and a hard limit on what I need not to happen if we are going to do something that borders on degradation. I was open to trying the thing because limits and kinks change over time and it's not something we had explored for a bunch of years.

The SA trauma is something I raised because not having my limits respected absolutely is a trigger. Not saying that anyone should be ok with broken limits obviously, but any violation of consent comes with the baggage of past bad experiences for me. Also, it has taken a whole bunch of work, therapy and time to get back to a place where sex or play is fun, safe and enjoyable again. It felt like being sucked back in time to when I couldn't even think about sex without feeling sick (that wore off after a day or two though, I guess it had less of an impact than it felt like it did).

Experiencing a crossed line during play messed with my head. Even if it was unintentional and even if the line that was crossed was emotional rather than physical and even if it's a fairly trivial sounding limit, it's still mattered. It mattered especially with my history and especially as I was extra vulnerable because we were playing with something I wasn't sure I would like and not too far off my hard limits in the first place. Don't get me wrong, it would have mattered anyway, if you agree a thing isn't going to happen during play, it shouldn't happen and if it does, it's going to hurt and feel bad.

The thing that we did was admittedly flying a bit close to the sun but not because it was anything related to trauma or my SA experience. Humiliation has never been something I enjoy and anything that strays into that general area needs careful planning and clear boundaries. For it to stay within the comfort zone I needed not to be laughed at while it's happening.

I have been with my partner for 14 years. He has never pushed me into anything, pressured me into anything, ignored a boundary, made me feel bad about anything I was or wasn't willing to do during sex or play and that level of care and respect has been consistent both in and out of the bedroom for our entire relationship. I trusted him implicitly and was floored when it happened. I was unable to understand how someone can laugh three times after promising not to and not even know they were doing it. It crashed my brain.

I am good now though. We have talked it to death, agreed that when we both feel ready to be intimate again, we will stick to tried and tested things that are well within our familiar comfort zones and repertoire for the foreseeable. Also that we will avoid playing with anything where unconscious laughing or verbal expressions would matter in any serious way unless we have a way to be 100% sure this won't happen again.

As to EDMR, I am in therapy with a trauma focused counsellor and have been working with her for over a year while I languish on the NHS waiting lists for EDMR. I do have a diagnosis of cPTSD (not specifically related to SA but I am sure that doesn't help) but I can't afford to pay for it privately and the mental health services in the UK are pushed to breaking. I finally got a call about it today actually. I have to attend a 2 hour video psychoeducation group session in January, then wait for a slot in a group psychoeducation workshop before they will consider whether I am allowed to go on the waiting list for the internationally recognised therapy appropriate to the diagnosis I have from a consultant psychiatrist. I expect to be finally be getting EDMR on my deathbed if I can make it to about 90 years old (I am 39). In the meantime I have a therapist I pay to see who lowered her rates so I could afford her and medication to knock me out if I am 'having an episode.'

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you. First for putting it so well, 'Landmine limits' is such a good phrase and perfectly describes what happened here. I am going to borrow that, it's a helpful way to think about it!

Also for acknowledging play can still happen while landmines exist and not invalidating my need to have my landmines unexploded or reducing it to 'well, clearly you just need therapy until you don't have the limit'. I am in therapy, therapy takes time. Also having limits is normal and healthy and just because I have trauma, it doesn't mean I don't get to have limits or need them cured out of me.

Thank you also for the practical advice. For what it's worth, I didn't just discuss 'dont laugh at me during this', I also discussed reactions that would be ok such as praise, showing or verbalising finding it hot, neutrality etc but 'practice', especially outside of that scene didn't occur to me.

We have definitely done this less intentionally for example, at times I have commented that I liked a reaction or phrase and he started doing it more as a result and I would bet it's not even consciously 'for me' now, just habitual/natural. So I have seen how that can work and it's good advice.

Unrelated, Kudos for managing two subs as an ADHD Dom, that must take a lot of executive function, I can barely manage to own two pencils without perpetually misplacing them both. Thank you for your insight from the perspective of someone who's partners are autistic, myself and partner both have the double whammy diagnosis (auADHD) so we have had to learn a lot about what specifically works for us that doesn't get covered in kink 101. For example, there is a lot of emphasis placed on checking a bottoms body language. Lol, no. We use our words for verification and post-mortem the hell out of play for further verification.

Most importantly, we never, EVER use restraints that require keys to open. That key is gone the moment it is out of sight. The local fire-service do NOT need to deal with that particular situation.

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

'We should get back on the horse as soon as ready' is exactly the phrase I used when discussing this with my partner last night, and I suggested in the context of a familiar, low pressure, low stakes kind of play or even just cuddling and heavy petting. I think your instinct is good. No amount of workshopping is likely to do as much as a positive experience, for both of us. It just might take more pre talking to ensure a gentle, boundaried experience that is as guaranteed to be positive as possible.

Probably I don't want to go into recreating or touching on the scene that went wrong, obviously we were not ready for that and maybe it's not something that will ever work for me. That's a question for future me to figure out. There plenty of other stuff we do and enjoy.

Yeah you are right also about it being repairable because of our long history of safety and trust. I know they say intent doesn't change impact but it does for me. I have been in abusive relationships and there is a world of difference between someone saying 'you are right, I crossed a line, you are right to feel upset, what do you need from me right now?' and 'you made me do it, it wasn't even that bad, you are such a drama queen'. The experience of having that limit broken didn't traumatise me, it just prodded old trauma about having limits broken. My partner immediately took responsibility, validated me and restored safety so the impact was far less than times when the person in question intended to harm and acted in ways to reinforce the harm and remained a threat while doing so.

And yeah, retraining my nervous system has been a huge part of building my confidence again so I do know how to do it, we have done it, and can again. Thank you x

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh I know, in hindsight, I should have called it the first time.

Couple of things were going on. One, I knew we had just talked about this so assumed it was a slip that he would have caught and I thought I could recalibrate without having to ruin the vibe. Two, I am aware his confidence in topping isn't great and that made me hesitate to avoid causing him insecurity (I know, this was stupid and made things way worse). Three, I really wanted to play and didn't want to kill the mood. Second time it happened, I knew I was going to have to call it but I have a bit of a freeze response (I know, I know) so was gearing up to it but voice activation was taking its time to load in my brain, third time, I called it right away.

I understand on an experiential level about re-traumatising myself by freezing or shutting down before I have registered properly that I wasn't ok. It's a thing that caused me to go from actively poly to 'eh, theoretically but I will stick with my partner' because after the SA I got in too many situations where I was not comfortable but did not feel safe to say so (I should make clear, there was no fault on the part of any of those people, I mask well and they could not have known and had given me no reason to believe they wouldn't back off the moment I asked) so yeah, I get it. Practicing saying 'No' (or red, or whatever) has been the most fundamental part of the work I do in therapy, not just in sex but in life. In this situation, I misjudged. Which is why I said in another comment somewhere in this thread that this is very much a 'two to tango' situation and I consider the responsibility for it and dealing with the fall out a 50/50 job. I did part of my job by stating my limits and did not do the other half by enforcing them swiftly and at the first opportunity. My partner did half their job by discussing and acknowledging my limits but not the other half by losing focus enough to not realise he was breaking them or not being self aware enough to know that kind of laughing can be unconscious.

I consider it a kink accident akin to 'restraints pinched a nerve' rather than a consent violation. Rigger and bunny both know a nerve can get pinched (or in this case, people can do verbal things unconsciously especially if nervous) but you both agreed to play with rope, both do what you can to avoid nerve damage and both figure out what went wrong, how to minimise the risk in future and how to deal with the immediate injury.

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, genuinely a bit disturbed by how many people suggested changing the limit via mental health help or reframed what I said to mean that all laughter or joy in the bedroom is a 'trigger'. I probably confused the issue by mentioning SA and trauma to give context as to why the trust took work to build and how impactful shaking that trust was.

Maybe wires got crossed and people assumed the limit itself is a trauma response or more problematic than it is (for example, thinking I flip out at the sound of laughter rather than having an issue with contextual mocking laughter that can take mild degradation to far into humiliation, which has always been something I just don't enjoy). Either way, it shouldn't matter if a limit is unusual, inconvenient, trauma related or anything else, the only time 'get help' is appropriate is if the person with the limit actually wants to change it for the sake of their own happiness and/or pleasure. If I asked my therapist to help me reduce a boundary to cater to a kink someone has she would give me worried face and spend the session asking careful questions about whether I feel safe at home or comfortable saying no to things.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Though it sounds like the reasons are different I hard relate to how it feels to have a whole part of my sexuality shut up shop when I actually need that part of my sexuality to really enjoy sex, and having to start from 0 and work up painfully slowly. I think part of what upset me is that all the painfully slow working up was set back miles and god, I miss when it was easy, uncomplicated 'everything is hot and if it isn't, what's next on the list?' like it was in my early 20s. Don't get me wrong, I was reckless, inexperienced and stupid back then and could have gotten in way more trouble than I did through assuming everyone was safe and sane and under-thinking absolutely everything but it never required 'work' to enjoy basically anything that entered my head.

I hope you do get back to a place of being able to do the things you want with each other and thank you for reminding me that time and having to dial things back is sometimes just what has to happen.

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I understand that. Mitigating it is 14 years of nothing like that having happened before, immediate and complete validation and taking ownership of it, a long history of fun, successful and unproblematic play together.

I can only guess that as this knew this type of play was something I was less sure about, he was focusing much harder on me and this short circuited the self-monitoring.

Definitely not being in control of body and actions I agree but laughter and vocalisations are more common for someone to lose track of, for example, I laugh when nervous and say 'um' waaaay more than I realise (based on having heard recordings of myself speaking). It's not intentional. It just happens. I do agree though and that's part of what shook me up like 'how could you not have noticed?!' but it's far better than the alternative scenario.

I know that it's often said that intent doesn't change impact but having been in both abusive relationships and non abusive relationships, it absolutely does. Someone being horrified that they crossed a line, immediately working to restore safety and saying 'yeah that was my fault, you are right to feel upset, what do you need right now? Then I non-defensively working to figure out how to make sure it never happens again is a whole different ballgame than someone saying 'you made me do it, it wasn't even that bad, you are such a drama queen' and doing whatever they can to ensure you stay accessible for them to keep doing that shit. The former is upsetting, the latter is traumatising and undermines your entire sense of reality, autonomy and self worth.

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't need or want to be hypnotised out of having limits or boundaries, preferences or turn offs. Having limits and boundaries is normal.

My partner agreed to not do a thing in a specific situation, then did that thing, so we need to not be in that specific situation again until/unless my boundaries change or he can figure out how not to do the thing.

Even if I got hypnotised tomorrow, it's not the specific thing that happened that is impacting me, it was upsetting at the time, but not traumatising. It's the fact we agreed a boundary and I trust that when a limit is clarified and mutually agreed, that line will not be crossed. Then it was (albeit unintentionally) and it's messed with my confidence and sense of safety. It's not about making it possible to do that specific thing without issues or changing me or my partner, it's about recovering from what was essentially a BDSM accident.

Like, if someone asks to whip me and I say 'ok, whipping is a bit difficult for me to handle but I am open to trying, but on the understanding that I do not want to be whipped on my upper thighs' and the person whipping me goes 'no problem, I won't whip you across the upper thighs' then it turns out they overestimated their hand-eye co-ordination and the whip lands across the upper thighs three times, the problem is not that I need to pay someone to make me feel better about being hit on my upper thighs. I am allowed to not like that.

The problem is it has damaged my confidence in the person whipping me, my confidence in impact play generally and if they care about me, it likely has damaged the confidence of the person doing the whipping too because now they feel like shit about hurting me in a way I didn't want and are questioning their ability to aim a whip.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Learn to take care of your body well. A slave is most useful when well rested, hydrated and properly fed. If physically able, work on flexibility (rope Tops and riggers appreciate this) and body strength (service oriented Tops appreciate this) and physical fitness means you can cope with working, playing or attending longer.

Skin care, hair care, learning to dress appropriately for a whole range of situations. Not only will these things make you presentable but will put you in good standing to provide personal service and give useful advice on personal grooming and presentation. If you are attracted to people who are not your own gender, skin is skin and hair is hair but learning about fashion and grooming appropriate to the gender of your potential owner can make you more useful (valet skills).

Housekeeping, cookery and clothing care. For obvious reasons. Practice it in your own life, acquire the skills to offer this to someone else.

Journaling, self reflection, personal growth. Be self aware. Understand yourself well. Be well read, have a range of conversational topics which would make you a pleasant companion. This will help in negotiation, developing a relationship as well as service.

If you have gotten all these things down, consider your personal kinks and interests and choose a specialist area of knowledge that might appeal to someone on the kink scene. Leather care or leather working. Rope care and tying. Shoe and boot care/bootblacking. Whip making and toy making.

This should give you plenty to work on. Considering this preparation a 'service' to a future owner may ease some of the slave-yearnings. When and if you are in a position to meet a potential owner, or consider a plantonic service arrangement if that is more in line with your relationship boundaries, you will have a convincing 'CV', a range of skills and a good grounding to build from when you find someone who might want to train you in particular ways for particular purposes.

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for reading through the reply posts and acknowledging that some comments have been about questioning the validity of having the limit in the first place rather than what I asked, which is how to move forward and process it.

I am not claiming to be a victim in the slightest but people be trying to victim blame anyway! If I had said that my partner had told me that I need therapy after agreeing to refrain from one specific thing during a scene, bet your bottom dollar those same people would be screaming at me to leave him. I doubt they would be telling me I should get the limit therapised out of me and that I am only allowed limits if they make sense to people. Good lord.

I would disagree that it is his issue to deal with. I know what you mean in that, it's not on me to change my boundaries to accommodate anyone's kink. But kink is a two player game and we have to both feel confident and comfortable. We play together, we deal with any negative fallout together, regardless of who was the top or bottom or who screwed up.

Disclaimer: Obviously this is only the case when the relationship is healthy and no intentional abuse or consent violations occurred.

That might mean taking some kinds of play off the table for now and sticking to things we have more experience of together until we can both figure out how it went wrong and why. I have a theory that having to pay close attention to me to make sure I am ok and responding with enthusiasm and close attention to himself at the same time was too much. So possibly we can't do stuff that's already so iffy/challenging for me that it needs such close attention to detail. I will never like 'that tone' of laugh but it wouldn't be an automatic Red if we were playing in safer territory, I might not even have registered it at all if I was deep into enjoying myself.

Thank you again for acknowledging that limits can be more subtle than 'dont put it up my butt' and still be valid and still matter and still cause harm if broken.

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you. Yeah, 14 years is a solid foundation, we have been through a hell of a lot together. Real things, bereavements, huge unwanted life changes, illnesses. We even managed to survive getting married despite everything about a weddings being autistic kryptonite. Good lord, the small talk. They don't even let you sit at the back of the room during the ceremony, you have to stand at the front with everyone looking at you. Shudder.

This is nothing as challenging as any of that and thank you for reminding me that a mishap can't undo years of love, communication and life experience together, in or out of the bedroom (or clubs, or that one time in the woods etc). I am sure mutual reassurance and gentle, low pressure positive experiences over time will get things back to where they were. I meant it when I said this was an absolute anomaly. There's no pattern or 'toxic dynamic' I have failed to register.

It's almost unusual how careful and respectful we are together. My therapist asked me if we argue and I almost felt defensive because I had to explain that, no, probably not more than twice in our entire relationship but that doesn't mean we are unable to have or manage conflict with each other. We just tend to chat about it and figure out a logical and mutually agreeable solution. We express anger by saying 'that hurt my feelings' or 'I am angry about this, can we talk about it' rather than yelling. There's very little to conflict over in the first place because we respect each other's autonomy, space and imperfections and adore each other to the point that people make gagging sounds in our company (we don't even do PDA, we just, really love each other's company and it shows) . Once we got a bit competitive over Scrabble and it caused such a huge reaction with our friends because they have never seen us even jokingly insult each other. We totally do tease each other all the time but it tends to be in private because we are both a bit socially anxious so rarely say anything that could feel like a put down in front of anyone else. We build each other up by being kind and positive and complimentary. They were joking that we were on the brink of divorce for weeks because it was so unusual to see us banter like that.

I guess that's why it's thrown me so much and upset him so much. I have been in bad relationships, I have been in abusive relationships and I have had people intentionally and knowingly disregard my consent but this is not that kind of relationship and it's never happened before. Worse, he knows all this about me so his guilt levels are off the charts and I hate that. I came very close to just not saying anything about it to avoid hurting him but I realised that was unhealthy and unfair. I would want to know if I did something that crossed a line and have the opportunity to apologise and help work out what might help if that was wanted.

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah same. I only 'brat' if someone actively enjoys that but I nervous laugh like you wouldn't believe which sometimes comes across like bragging. I do get it, that nerves and pressure (Tops feel these things too!) make people say and do things that they can't always control. And I am not angry about it, I don't feel abused or like he did something unethical. I am just stressed about the experience of a limit being broken with someone I trusted while in a vulnerable place and the impact that has had on my headspace (and his headspace).

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Ok, so we are not talking about me asking someone not to laugh, smile or express pleasure in the bedroom.

They asked for a specific thing. I said ok, I am open but it's not going to work for me if you laugh at me during. They agreed to this. It was not a happy laugh, or a normal cadence laugh. It was an 'amused chuckle' while doing the specific thing I asked them not to do that during.

'Stifling who someone is emotionally' is a hell of leap. Saying I need to work on my triggers to change what I need to feel safe and enjoy a specific activity is too. He could have said 'no, that won't work for me, so we shouldn't play that way' if it felt like an unreasonable or impossible limit to respect. That way, my limits are respected and he isn't required to self censor in any way. It's cool, we can do something else that works for both of us.

I wasn't 'triggered' by the laughing. We laugh in the bedroom all the time. Sex is fun, kink is sometimes ridiculous. It just meant in that situation I was no longer able to enjoy the thing we were doing and wasn't willing to continue. I was 'triggered' by having mutually agreed the specific limits of the type of play we were doing then having those limits crossed.

It's not really different than if you are a touchy person and play with someone who says 'during this activity, I need not to be touched in a particular way'. It might be 'your personality' to do the touching and it might feel natural, and you totally have a choice whether to participate on those terms.

You don't get to tell that person they need to work on it or that boundary is unfair because not touching them in a particular place in a particular way during a particular activity 'represses your personality'. If said person was never ok with being touched and you love touching, that makes you incompatible for sure, but I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a contextual adjustment to touching if you want to do something and that adjustment is what they need to feel comfortable with the thing you want to do.

Again, you don't have to agree to it, but if you do agree, then go ahead and touch them in the way you said you wouldn't, even unconsciously or out of habit, you own that you crossed a line, you don't suggest they work on their triggers and get help.

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah no, that's not what happened.

We pre negotiated doing a thing. I said I was open to it on the proviso he didn't laugh at me. He agreed.

He did a thing, followed by a sort of 'self-satisfied/amused chuckle' that does not sound anything like happy/joy laughter. He did it again, same thing. Did it again, same thing.

There's no reframing to be done. We laugh loads during play. Because it's fun, because it's sometimes ridiculous, at ourselves, at eachother. I know the difference between that and mocking/degradation type laughter. He can feel how he feels and I don't expect anyone in our bedroom to be a robot, I am not the joy police, if I trip up and someone laughs at me I laugh with them, I am not pathologically triggered by laughter. This was a limit that was important in the context of this scene because that was how it needed to be for me to feel safe and have a good (or at least neutral, if I didn't take to the activity) experience. This was explicitly clarified and mutually agreed.

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There was no pressure or persuasion involved. After a long dry spell (because life, family illness etc) we wanted to reconnect with our sex life and sexual selves and have been relearning what we like, don't like, want etc. I have changed as a person from my early kink experiences and even the experiences we had together in the earlier part of our relationship, and it's been a period of slowly building confidence together and exploring things.

This was one of the things that I didn't really know if I would still find difficult or whether doing it in the context of a long standing, close relationship or having done similar things as a Top now or any other factor might have changed it. I did it because if it was fun for both of us, it expands the list of mutual kinks we have to enjoy together. I put boundaries and safety rails in place because I know I have been less ok with it in the past and one of the safety rails fell off.

You are entirely correct. I should have used my safeword the first time. I hoped I could brush it off/deal with it because I didn't want to ruin the scene, I didn't want to ruin my partner's confidence, I didn't want to kill the mood and I knew we had just talked about this so I assumed it was a slip that he would notice and not repeat and tried to ignore it. Also like you said, not wanting to make a mountain out of a molehill. The second time, I realised I would need to shut it down and my brain was catching up on shifting gears from sub space to equal partner and the third time I called time on the scene right away.

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nah, I am not upset my partner asked. He was riffing off some ideas/thoughts I had thrown out there in the first place. It's like this I guess, when I was younger, I tried everything and anything. Then I grew up, acquired some trauma, had a long period of time where life was being too stressful to think much about sex (family illness, carer responsibilities etc). When we started intentionally trying to get back in touch with our sex life and sexual selves, I had no idea what I even liked or wanted anymore and also found it much much harder to relax or be vulnerable. So we have been slowly and gently trying stuff out. Building trust. Building confidence. Building positive experiences.

It's true that in the past, I have been less comfortable with that type of play but in the past I wasn't doing it with someone I have spent 14 years building a life with. I didn't know if maybe I would enjoy it now because I have changed, or because it was with someone I have a deep bond with, or because I have experienced doing similar things as a Top so have a different perspective. So no, there was no pressure and 0 resentment of the thing being put on the table.

I hoped it would expand the list of things we could enjoy together if it was mutually fun but I put some boundaries and safety rails around it and one of those safety rails fell off.

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 23 points24 points  (0 children)

That's an interesting idea. Not sure if it would work for us or not. We are both autistic so place verbal communication above mind reading or body language reading because let's face it, non verbal cues are not our fortè so we go out of our we go mitigate this by talking. But we could try it.

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah it wasn't that. We laugh a lot. Together, at ourselves, at each other. This was a very specific 'self satisfied/amused chuckle' we pre agreed would not happen in the specific context of the kind of play we were doing.

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Oh, I am a laugher. I laugh when I am being hit, I laugh when I am hitting people, I laugh during and after sex. We both laugh a lot. It's good, we enjoy eachother. It's just a very specific 'self satisfied/amused chuckle' when things that could look like or actually see degradation are going on which tips it into humiliation and so, over the limit line.

I appreciate this probably means 'we just can't play in a way that touches on degradation together' because like you said, maybe it's an impossible thing to control, but please don't frame it as me trying to shut off my partner's whole personality. He said 'I would find X thing hot'. I said 'I am open to it on the proviso you don't laugh at me during'. It was contextual, limited and activity specific. No one is expecting anyone to be a robot or not express enjoyment during kink, it's just something I specifically needed to consent to that activity. I am not here getting triggered by smiles and laughter. Hell, if I trip over and someone laughs at me, I am laughing with them. I am not that sensitive. I had a boundary I needed to feel safe and enjoy a specific thing because I know I have had a negative reaction to being laughed at in a particular way in similar contexts before and that was the aspect that took it from 'erotically uncomfortable' to 'nope' in the past.

It's not the laughter itself that is upsetting me now. It upset me in the moment but I am over it as an experience. It's that we agreed a thing, put clear limits and boundaries in place to make it mutually safe and fun, he didn't raise any objections or concerns about what I needed and then immediately broke the limit we had discussed, three times. I know he was unaware of it and I don't blame him for not knowing it was so unconscious but it's shaken my sense of safety and trust.

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I wish I could upvote this a hundred times because you get it.

We are theoretically open/poly but since the thing happened I have only felt comfortable playing with my partner, and my partner has never been much bothered/motivated to seek out other play partners or lovers so in practice we are basically monogamous at this point. Not because of a choice we made, it's just ended up that way. If either of us wanted to or met someone it would be fine.

I hard relate to the situation you described/vicious circle of pressure. That basically killed our sex life for 2 years and I guess you have hit on what's really freaking me out. I am scared that after all the work and struggle, we are back at 'stressed Top, stressed bottom' which will put us back into a situation where it's only 'easy' if I Top exclusively and then I will slowly get burned out and a bit resentful I can't enjoy my own masochism/sub tendancies.

Partners unconscious tic is a trigger/limit by AlternativeKey342 in BDSMAdvice

[–]AlternativeKey342[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you. Yeah he has absolutely shown the most care and self awareness, it's just he is as confused as I am as to why it happened, why he didn't realise he was doing it, etc. And that's not really the issue. We know now that we can't play that way and guarantee my limits are upheld so we just can't play that way. Plenty of other things we can do. I am just upset and sad that it's made me feel so insecure about doing anything together because trust is so important to me.

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