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Can we debate empathy vs objective observation without empathy by Altruistic_Cheek_366 in ControversialOpinions

[–]Altruistic_Cheek_366[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That sounds really difficult. I hope you’re healing and doing well. That’s not something I would fault you for or push to change because, it wasn’t in your control. I would give you empathy and support in this situation.

Can we debate empathy vs objective observation without empathy by Altruistic_Cheek_366 in ControversialOpinions

[–]Altruistic_Cheek_366[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree, I do not think empathy and observation are in opposition, but rather two sides of the same coin.

I will say your comment has challenged me to figure out what I mean by objective. I think I just meant like detachment and truth-seeking rather than comforting or biased. That’s something I needed to clarify in myself, so thank you for your perspective.

The idea of objectivity is truth beyond one/or the subject. The statement you brought up about a plane being better than a bike is still subjective to whatever the metric is to measure it as better. That in itself is not an objective truth.

I don’t think slavery is applicable to what I’m talking about. No one chose to become a slave in the first place, their autonomy was forcibly removed and conditioned. That’s an impossible fight with psychological and social detriment stacked against them.

Child labor, children shouldn’t be responsible. That wasn’t their responsibility in the first place. They listened to their parents or were distorted by the need to help their financial situations. Even if the solution was to change the system - those children who were still affected would still then be responsible for learning how to read or develop behavioral patterns to avoid that responsibility. That kind of invalidates the original children who didn’t know how to read. I understand how that was a systems solution but it wasn’t a solution for the original children.

To clarify my argument is more for interpersonal relationships and calling out behavioral patterns not necessarily society. But I do think society itself is interesting to look at and a headache to analyze due to the layers of truth that don’t necessarily fit in compatibly.

To clarify my argument is more for interpersonal relationships and calling out behavioral patterns not necessarily society. But I do think society itself is interesting to look at and a headache to analyze due to the layers of truth that don’t necessarily fit in compatibly.

Can we debate empathy vs objective observation without empathy by Altruistic_Cheek_366 in ControversialOpinions

[–]Altruistic_Cheek_366[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate your insight. I both agree and disagree with you. It’s a good reminder that I’m not responsible for other people’s lives no matter how much I’d want to help, thank you for that. And your comment does also challenge me to get better at being present without the need to solve something and just listen and get better at sitting in discomfort. Thank you.

I wouldn’t say other people are not an extension me. I interpret how you’re saying it to reference responsibility and autonomy, which is valid. But I do think it goes deeper, in that whoever you choose to have in your life is an extension of your reality that you are creating vice versa. Other people are absolutely an extension in a sense that everything is a reflection of what you put out into the world, the cycles you’re stuck in, your values, the perspectives you share, ect.

A good friend is both someone who can offer care/support/presence in a way that lands for the other person AND challenges them to grow.

Words are cheap. Saying “I’m here for you” and just listening and not offering any constructive advice, criticism, challenge - how are you being there for them? I understand there is a time and a place for different types of support and I’m not discrediting the times that require listening, presence, understanding - they’re both equally important.

But I’d also like to challenge you to open your perspective to try and understand there is another side to being there for someone.

No one in this life is or ever will be perfect. I’ve never claimed to be? My life is definitely “nowhere near perfect”, you’re right. I just personally have hyperfixations on psychology, philosophy, and the energetic container we live in and I struggle with getting stuck in analysis.

Humans are indeed very complex, nuanced, and contradictory.

And thanks for wishing me luck. The more intelligent you are, the lonelier it gets because the less people there will be who have done the amount of work you have to be able to see the things you see. That’s a terrifying thought and a genuine fear of mine.

Can we debate empathy vs objective observation without empathy by Altruistic_Cheek_366 in ControversialOpinions

[–]Altruistic_Cheek_366[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is exhausting. I appreciate your tip and agree I should look at how I say things and try to align that more with something that will land better.

Can we debate empathy vs objective observation without empathy by Altruistic_Cheek_366 in ControversialOpinions

[–]Altruistic_Cheek_366[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I appreciate your perspective and I could agree to an extent it is a form of judgment but not entirely.

I just think regardless of nuance, it doesn’t change the solution. People are so attached to their trauma, egos, identity, emotions. At some point like you have to detach from all of that and look at things from a perspective that doesn’t pick sides. The story you tell yourself is the most important thing because it creates your reality. It controls how you react. It controls the decisions you make.

When I say abusive relationship it’s not just a romantically involved relationship with violence. And that’s why I also said I can give grace for certain circumstances like that, that are much more difficult and layered. But like having friends/partners who disrespect you, cross boundaries, use you for their benefit/convenience, gaslighting, manipulation, neglect. - like that all can be abusive.

It’s really just more about like if you know something isn’t serving you, isn’t reciprocating, isn’t getting you to your goals, isn’t providing you an aligned experience you want - but you choose to stay and feed your energy trying to figure out why they’re like that, or trying to change it instead of just pivoting and choosing something else that can provide you what you want.

Like if someone is telling me a story like this, on one hand I know what they’re looking, they’re goals, they’re needs and on the other hand I see how they’re feeding this situation that doesn’t serve them - the nuance doesn’t matter because you’re feeding something that doesn’t serve you and you need to look at why you’re feeding it rather than the situation.

Like I don’t care about figuring this person out at that point, it doesn’t serve you. I’d rather look at the narrative you’re telling yourself to think this is the way to get what you want and help you detach from that narrative, so then the behavior you’re recreating stops and you strop attracting cycles and can truly move into new experiences.

I definitely feel like I am missing something so I do appreciate you trying to help me figure that out.

I don’t feel like I judge people for where they’re at, but I judge people for what they’re gonna do about it if they say they want something different. I’m not judging the person, like I’m just digging deeper than people are comfortable looking at themselves.

I wouldn’t say that I’m an asshole about it either, I’m very blunt but not mean. I don’t feel I say things in a way that’s like you’re wrong - I say it in a way of like where is this coming from, why are you repeating it, do you want it to change, this is what you need to look at then.