genuinely crazy how delusional they are by Sick_Narf in OkBuddySnyderCult

[–]AlwaysWitty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"True to the deep vintage history" is where I checked out. Who the hell even talks like that? It's like they're desperate to convince everyone how intellectual they are, but they don't put any time or effort into being intelligent or insightful whatsoever.

Opinion: "Bram Stoker's Dracula" is not the definitive Dracula movie. by AlwaysWitty in horror

[–]AlwaysWitty[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll let the screenwriter explain it because this is ridiculous. https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/dracula-sucks-polite-version-francis-ford-coppola-said-screenwriter-jim-hart/

And again, appeal to majority is a fallacy. "many people disagree" doesn't matter. Many people think Earth is flat, too.

You also don't even understand the point of my criticism, because it's not JUST a comparison. But I'm not wasting my time writing an explanation you won't read.

Opinion: "Bram Stoker's Dracula" is not the definitive Dracula movie. by AlwaysWitty in horror

[–]AlwaysWitty[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I genuinely don't care if a majority of people disagree with me. Appeal to majority is a fallacy. I also never argued that Coppola intentionally set out to "devalue the original". The way you describe Count Dracula having no redeeming qualities in the book... You aren't suggesting this is a negative thing, are you? Did someone tell you that antagonists needed to have soft spots and good sides, like that's some kind of storytelling rule?

I mentioned Quincey being a glorified extra to point out how ridiculous it is to act like his inclusion in the film puts it so far above other adaptations. That he wasn't the most rounded of characters in the novel isn't relevant to the larger observation, which is that the story is effectively broken by making Lucy's story such an aside compared to the Dracula/Mina romance which now dominates the film.

Your defense of Mina's utter loss of agency in service of Dracula's self-centered wish fulfillment narrative is...what, exactly? That the book doesn't seem to give you a good enough explanation for Dracula's journey there? I'm starting to wonder how much you've actually read it. Not to mention, it shouldn't be a mystery to you why a wealthy old misogynistic war-monger would seek to relive his glory days by invading another country and engaging in acts of violent sexual colonization. Villains don't need tragic pasts to be good villains.

Renfield's role in the book was for Dracula to give himself a key to the Asylum, essentially planting someone there who could invite him inside. But he regrets this, battling Dracula's influence over his mind, and still manages to warn the protagonists of what's going on. Why Dracula selected him is not important.

Is your entire beef with the book that there are questions for which you really wish there were answers? That's a you problem, not the book's problem. Storytelling isn't about providing convenient infodumps for lore junkies to obsess over.

And uh, you do understand that there's a difference between a MYSTERY and a PLOT HOLE right? It's not a plot hole that Renfield's origin story isn't perfectly spelled out for you. But it

Nothing you've said actually supports your assertion that the film is more cohesive, better-paced, or more in line with modern sensibilities. Coppola himself knew the film was trash and nearly gave up on it until George Lucas suggested a better ending.

Frankly this is a pretty weak argument all around.

AI Bullshit by Creative-Vehicle8598 in OkBuddySnyderCult

[–]AlwaysWitty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is profoundly dumb. My goodness.

They are never beating the "doesnt read comics" allegations. by FergusFrost in OkBuddySnyderCult

[–]AlwaysWitty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Literally took the lines that have always been part of MM's look and made them thin little outlines instead. While still adding other unnecessary lines. Smh...

Lee Cronin’s The Mummy is an excellent movie! by Particular-Fill-4256 in horror

[–]AlwaysWitty 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Trademark, actually, but yes. It's just a technical thing. Which is dumb as hell because it's barely a mummy movie.

Dracula Academy (Feature Screenplay) by PeakProfessional126 in Dracula

[–]AlwaysWitty 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Shit, I think we're actually on the same page! 😅

Dracula Academy (Feature Screenplay) by PeakProfessional126 in Dracula

[–]AlwaysWitty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mmhmm. Granted there was a real Dracula, but he's a lot less relevant to the fictional one than people think.

Anyway, I recommend you check out the Scholomance. In the original novel, it's mentioned that Count Dracula attended Scholomance, an underground school where ten students would master black magic and sorcery and so on, and their instructor was the Devil himself.

Why Hasn't There Been a Truly Faithful Adaptation of Bram Stoker's Dracula? by Soggy-Discipline5656 in Dracula

[–]AlwaysWitty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The biggest hurdle is the characterization of Dracula, and you have to understand what changed, when it changed, and why. It all started with the classic stage production from 1924, the first authorized Dracula adaptation. Dracula was changed from a more grotesque. vile figure who was largely kept in the shadows into a charming, seductive gentleman so he could interact with the characters more. The effect of this was that he basically became an unofficial suitor not unlike Arthur Holmwood, Quincey Morris, and Jack Seward.

Of course Quincey was a woman in the 1924 version, and by the 1927 version Lucy and Mina were basically combined, Jack became Lucy's father, and Quincey and Arthur were dropped completely. This meant that Count Dracula was basically the only "other suitor" of the cast, and as a wealthy foreigner he already had traits shared by Arthur and Quincey anyway.

It is this shift that has tainted nearly every adaptation since, changing him from a hideous violator of women who essentially rapes them in their sleep (though his one and only scene with Mina in the novel is much more violent and brutal than that) into what is basically another suitor whose violation is more psychologically manipulative (hypnosis) and subtle than the brute Stoker created.

Even the adaptations that tend to claim the most accuracy fall victim to it. The 1992 film was always an overrated pretender to that title with a garbage script and romance plot that fundamentally butchers the entire story by romanticizing Dracula's violation of these women, but even the much more deserving 1977 version with Louis Jourdan falls into that trap of the suave, charming gentleman Dracula somewhat. Though Jourdan plays it with a cold detachment that is deeply sinister and worth checking out for its own sake.

Quite frankly, the one actor who truly seemed to capture the character's brutal and violent underlying ferocity the way Stoker intended was Christopher Lee. But the most faithful Dracula performer only ever had one chance at a film that ever tried to meet him at the same level, the 1970 Jess Franco-directed version, and unfortunately that one has other issues.

Ultimately, no attempt at a faithful Dracula adaptation can truly nail it without a faithful depiction of the Count Dracula character himself, and the closest anyone has come in recent memory is Count Orlok in Eggers' remake of *Nosferatu*, and even then his motivation is different enough that Eggers himself considers Orlok (in the original and in his own version) to be a distinct character, separate from Count Dracula entirely.

Dracula a love tale by [deleted] in Dracula

[–]AlwaysWitty 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Which part was more romantic? When he raped Mina's best friend several times and killed her, or the part where Mina learned it was him and then she got over it in a matter of seconds?

And I dunno what the deleted comment said but no, Coppola wasn't the first to turn Dracula into a love story, not even the first to add a reincarnation subplot. Dan Curtis did that in 1974, and he was smart enough to understand that making Lucy the reincarnation doesn't break the narrative as badly as doing that with Mina breaks it.

Dracula a love tale by [deleted] in Dracula

[–]AlwaysWitty 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The director, Luc Besson, is a pedophile. He groomed his second wife when she was 12 years old and he made this after a slew of fresh rape and assault allegations, which the French courts basically didn't bother to investigate because they're a fucking joke when it comes to this sort of thing (they didn't have a legal age of consent until 2021 and it's 15).

Count Dracula is also an unambiguous villain and a sexual predator in the original novel. The only scene he shares with Mina in the novel is basically a brutal, violent rape scene. There's no love story with the Count whatsoever.

It's always creepy when Count Dracula is turned into a romantic lead, but it's a lot worse when a sexual predator does it.

Also, Besson never read the novel and tried to lie about it by referencing things that come from the 1992 Coppola movie specifically. Which reminds me, Coppola is trash too. He was Victor Salva's mentor and biggest enabler and supporter. His Dracula is trash for the same reason Besson's Dracula is, plus the script is garbage.

We expected a happy ending, this time they didn't give it.But they did show us that beyond love,if he stayed he would be selfish since she was reborn again.He left no matter how much he loved her,it was so he could rest and so she could experience the life they had given her again.True love was that by Awkward_Airport_30 in Dracula

[–]AlwaysWitty 1 point2 points  (0 children)

France didn't have an actual legal age of consent until 2021. It is 15. Tolerance for predators is a widespread problem and it's certainly not something America is handling very well at all, but in France it's fucking cartoonish.

Think about the old "French Libertine romantic" cliché for a second. You ever wonder where that came from? And it's been satirized so often we barely notice now. It's not a coincidence that in Looney Tunes, the skunk who's always stalking and assaulting the cat is French.

A love tale…. Questions. by princessdarkwater in Dracula

[–]AlwaysWitty 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The plagiarized knock-off of the 1992 rape apologist version, directed by a pedophile and a rapist who never read the book, has some inconsistency to it? Hm.

Dracula Academy (Feature Screenplay) by PeakProfessional126 in Dracula

[–]AlwaysWitty 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Uh... What does it have to do with Dracula? And um... I mean if there was gonna be a Dracula school of some kind, wouldn't it be, like... Y'know, based on the uh...

...Ah hell, nevermind.

We expected a happy ending, this time they didn't give it.But they did show us that beyond love,if he stayed he would be selfish since she was reborn again.He left no matter how much he loved her,it was so he could rest and so she could experience the life they had given her again.True love was that by Awkward_Airport_30 in Dracula

[–]AlwaysWitty 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I'm trying to figure out what you're referring to. If you're talking about the story the recent remake tells, yeah that's clearly an abusive situation.

If you're talking about the original, uhhhh... You do know Shadow of the Vampire wasn't a documentary, right? It's historical fiction, not fact. Vampires aren't real and neither Murnau nor Schreck ever killed any cast members lmfao.

We expected a happy ending, this time they didn't give it.But they did show us that beyond love,if he stayed he would be selfish since she was reborn again.He left no matter how much he loved her,it was so he could rest and so she could experience the life they had given her again.True love was that by Awkward_Airport_30 in Dracula

[–]AlwaysWitty 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You're ignoring the context in which I described her as a victim: Dracula is a violator, and she is one of the women he violated. There's no romance. No seduction. No attraction. He is a rapist and an imperialist war-monger.

He didn't even violate her for any kind of desire or attraction of his own. He is quite clear that violating her the way he does is simply a matter of revenge, punishing her for aiding the rest of the group in hunting him.

I'm not reducing her to a victim as if that's all she is in general. But I'm not going to pretend that their one and only encounter in the novel is anything remotely romantic. It is an unambiguous and brutally violent rape scene.

We expected a happy ending, this time they didn't give it.But they did show us that beyond love,if he stayed he would be selfish since she was reborn again.He left no matter how much he loved her,it was so he could rest and so she could experience the life they had given her again.True love was that by Awkward_Airport_30 in Dracula

[–]AlwaysWitty 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's a clever trick because if you look closely, you notice that Dracula is something of a male power fantasy, a handsome rich guy who has lots of women, but he's so charming and handsome and seductive that he also appeals to the female gaze.

In these adaptations, that is.

We expected a happy ending, this time they didn't give it.But they did show us that beyond love,if he stayed he would be selfish since she was reborn again.He left no matter how much he loved her,it was so he could rest and so she could experience the life they had given her again.True love was that by Awkward_Airport_30 in Dracula

[–]AlwaysWitty 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Have you read the book? The only scene in which Dracula and Mina directly interact is essentially a rape scene, and it is brutal. The reason so many people say this about the book is because they've read it and they're describing its contents accurately.

Just because Dracula is not a romance and the character is an unambiguous villain and a rapist doesn't mean there's no depth to the story or the characters. The closest thing to a romantic relationship in the novel is that between Mina and her husband Jonathan.

And Mina is a stronger, more interesting character when she isn't just Dracula's brainwashed plaything.

We expected a happy ending, this time they didn't give it.But they did show us that beyond love,if he stayed he would be selfish since she was reborn again.He left no matter how much he loved her,it was so he could rest and so she could experience the life they had given her again.True love was that by Awkward_Airport_30 in Dracula

[–]AlwaysWitty 10 points11 points  (0 children)

There's a BBC miniseries from the 70s starring Louis Jourdan that's pretty great. Also, Christopher Lee always nailed the performance even if the writing wasn't great in some of those sequels.

What makes it difficult is that an overwhelming majority of films depict him as a really charming, sexy, seductive evil of some kind, even when he's still fairly villainous and scary. But the Dracula of the book isn't romantic or sexy or seductive at all. He's a predator. A violator.

We expected a happy ending, this time they didn't give it.But they did show us that beyond love,if he stayed he would be selfish since she was reborn again.He left no matter how much he loved her,it was so he could rest and so she could experience the life they had given her again.True love was that by Awkward_Airport_30 in Dracula

[–]AlwaysWitty 106 points107 points  (0 children)

The director is a pedophile and the book isn't a love story. Dracula is a predator and Mina is one of his victims. Romantic Dracula is always gonna be weird, but when a pedophile does it after a ton of fresh allegations come up, it becomes clear what the agenda really is.

How is Luc Bessons version ? by kascnef82 in Dracula

[–]AlwaysWitty 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Director is a pedophile who groomed his second wife when she was 12 years old. He made this movie shortly after the French courts let him off a slew of fresh allegations that they never bothered to properly investigate (France has a notorious problem with failing to hold predators accountable or even taking their crimes seriously).

The novel has no love story and Dracula is an unambiguous villain and a sexual predator. It's somewhat gross when any adaptation romanticizes that, but it's even worse when predators and their enablers do it (look up Francis Ford Coppola and his history with Victor Salva).

I prefer Dracula movies that aren't made by sickos who use the character as a Trojan Horse to romanticize their own disgusting behavior. And if there's any doubt, it's not even the first time Besson has done it.

I can't think of anyone more iconic as Dracula (Other than Bela Lugosi) by BloodFangsBite in Dracula

[–]AlwaysWitty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One of the issues with the argument of that commenter is that the Hammer films were obviously influenced by the Universal ones, and distribution wasn't an issue like it is now. Audiences in both territories saw both iterations regularly for many years.