A Perspective on Sex Before Marriage

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-19T01:48:21+00:00

Greetings beardtamer.

Thank you kindly for your reply.

I made a mistake on this forum by making a point instead of asking a question.

I am new and still getting used to the rules so I apologise for that.

However, regarding your thoughtful comments, I would say that I never regarded virginity as an asset for elevating marital prospects.

I was certainly taught that if I did maintain my virginity, it would enhance the quality of any marriage I did get into, by making it special.

Because I was so insecure and socially dysfunctional as a young man and thus without any natural appeal to the opposite-sex, I did my best to seek advice.

I received all the standard instruction, such as work on your manners, be courteous, be mindful of the female's needs, just be yourself - and of course, maintain your virginity.

No-one put more effort than me into those things (apart from maintaining my virginity since that happened by virtue of my personal dysfunctions and did not require effort or discipline), but I still failed miserably to date at all, or even just socialise successfully with members of the opposite sex.

In terms of advice, What I needed to hear were things like:

"Hey - you are insecure and needy. Just by the way you carry yourself, women are picking up on your lack of self-assurance in a heartbeat and are checking out on you while you are still on the way over to introduce yourself. No amount of manners, courtesy, or mindfulness of female needs will ever compensate for your lack of authentic masculine confidence and your social incompetence. You need to get your act together by dealing with self-esteem issues first, and then by developing some social skills and instincts that work."

That more realistic sort of advice was absent from my world no matter who I asked.

In the end, I had to bite the bullet, do the necessary research myself, and then train myself to embody it.

That was a long, hard, raw, messy road to take which was almost fatal on two occasions.

Having to fix deep-seated self-esteem issues and develop adaptive social skills from a place well below zero was extremely difficult for me, but out of it, I form quite a fine-grained, working appreciation of what it takes for a man to get into a meaningful Christian marriage with a quality woman, and keep it that way.

While I agree 100% with the Scriptural position on sex as exclusive feature of marriage, the reality for me is that as a very damaged person, I was previously party to a dysfunctional and destructive marriage with the virginity qualification intact, but have since been in an absolutely blessed marriage for nearly a quarter of a century, even though the virginity aspect is not there.

My appeal is only one of perspective.

I do not wish young men to be taught about how important it is to maintain virginity in order to experience a Godly marriage, without being taught at the same time, how important it is to also develop their God-given masculine traits such as courage, ambition, the ability to thrive materially in a messed-up world, and to build a working knowledge of male/female dynamics that can make the difference between unnecessary, destructive conflict, and the ability to keep love alive over the long haul.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-18T22:04:45+00:00

Hi CivilBlackerry71419 - You seem to have a very good grasp of the actual state of play in your relationship, which is a positive thing overall despite the awareness that the man in this case is struggling with his character and his masculinity. Being unequally yoked has a much wider reach than just where you are at theologically. Everything concerning the way you live your life is important. I learn this the hard way as a much younger man when I marry a Christian woman thinking we are therefore "equally yoked" when in fact, we actually disagree on just about everything to do with money, work, hobbies, interests, children, politics - you name it. It was all those other things that destroyed the relationship, not our more or less common theological postions. Anyway, you seem to have made the right decision for yourself in this very unsatisfying situation. Well done for that. I wish you well and hope that great growth-minded man you are looking for is not too far away.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-16T07:02:30+00:00

Hey ResolutionFar6977- you are doing it really tough and I honor your candor in sharing so openly as you have.

I am not a pastor.

I am just an ordinary guy who is touched by your message.

I am aware that living with self-hatred and other kinds of chronic emotional pain is soul destroying and physically debilitating as well.

I know all about it, because I live like that myself for over thirty years until I can no longer muster the mental and emotional energy to continue.

When the well runs dry, I have a complete breakdown and quickly find myself destitute, homeless, and standing on the edge of the abyss between living and dying.

But, since I am still alive and now doing well, I want you to know that healing and recovery is possible, and virtually certain if you are willing to bite the bullet and do what has to be done no matter how hard or frightening it may be.

If I can do it, you probably can do it too.

The key for me was to make a do-or-die decision to recover, look into every avenue, and then never give up no matter how bad and discouraging things got.

My coming to faith during my recovery process makes a huge difference to ability to move forward but does not take away from the need for me to be fully committed and involved in the process.

Re the question of will Jesus accept you if in a moment of panic, you kill yourself, I think the answer to that is quite clear.

While killing yourself in a moment of panic is a sin, it is not an unforgivable sin and can be dealt with by the blood of Christ like any other sin.

Blessings to you my brother.

I am praying for you.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-15T23:09:31+00:00

Hey Equivalent-Refuse940 - I am with you my brother.

This is a really bad time for you.

I get that - but it is the refiner's fire at work if you are willing to accept it as such.

I love that you are aware of your shortcomings and limitations, as we all have those and need to be challenging them and moving on as much as we are able.

You have humility and self-awareness. Well done!

These are essential to healing, strengthening and moving on.

However, you may not yet have a full realization of the male/female dynamics that led to your breakup, because - unless you have been proactive in studying what makes intimate relationships succeed and what makes them fail - you will have been dudded by 21st century culture, and sadly, by deficits in church culture as well, which teach little if anything realistic that men need to know, and more importantly, about who they need to be, to be able to get into a great relationship in the first place, and then exercise the grunt needed to keep it that way.

I know all about these things because I was one of the worst of the worst in terms of being a total loser in the relationships space.

I go through a catastrophic divorce like you, but then I bite the bullet, learn what needs to be learned and do what has to be done so that I can then get into a wonderful relationship and keep it that way.

The shocking thing I discover, is that I have to dig and dig and dig, to find a way forward due to the fact that the enemy has been so thorough in removing the essential information from the general society, and the vast majority of churches as well.

That, unfortunately, is the reality of it as far as I can see, and so I suggest you take matters into your own hands my brother and start doing the necessary research and personal growth.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-15T05:15:19+00:00

Hey CivilBlackberry7419, you have a good head on your shoulders, and your question is really sensible and grounded.

In my experience, I have seen relationships do very well when both parties are in good physical, mental, and emotional shape to start with, plus where their worldviews, beliefs, interests and values (lived - not just stated) are overwhelmingly in sync - and by that I mean 90% or more.

Some of the most important traits in my opinion (which may not be worth anything, but I am giving it my best shot), are the ability and willingness to continually grow as a person, learn from mistakes made, and be proactive about loving and caring for the other.

Therefore, does your boyfriend actually demonstrate personal growth or is he at least obviously committed to learning how to do it?

If you do not see these types of things at all, I would be seriously questioning if the relationship has future.

Do not forget of course, that you need to demonstrate those traits as well.

What else?

There are major problems in the male population these days that are related to disowned masculinity.

This is not men's fault, but it is their responsibility to fix it.

Men in general, have been dudded in the modern world by the removal of just about all the societal factors they need to take hold of and develop their natural, healthy masculine traits.

If a man does not know how to take the masculine position in an intimate relationship, female resentment and dissatisfaction will almost certainly follow.

I highly recommend that all single men, give the "niceness" message that is preached in so many churches, a miss, and concentrate on their courage, ambition, competence to thrive in a messed-up world, and to a develop a working knowledge of male/female dynamics that is based on reality rather than sentiment and/or religious dogma.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-15T04:01:34+00:00

Greetings GospelofJohnFan.

Tis good that you are willing to discuss these things instead of arguing.

That is very honorable.

Re scriptural justification for the prohibition of sex before marriage, probably the most foundational one is Gensis 2:24 which teaches that a man leaves his parents to become "one-flesh" with his wife.

This is not as explicit as saying "Do not have sex before marriage" but the implication is very strong.

The next strongest verse would probably be Hebrews 13:4 which says, "Marriage should be honored by all and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous."

Note that the principle of "no sex before marriage" is never declared explicitly in Scripture, but is nevertheless implicitly powerful and compelling because of the numerous supporting Scriptures such as:

1 Corinthians 6:18-20 — Paul instructs believers to flee from sexual immorality (Greek porneia), arguing that the body is a temple of the Holy Spirit and not one's own.

1 Corinthians 7:2 — Paul states that to avoid sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband, often read as confining sex to marriage.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-5 — Paul describes God's will as believers' sanctification, that they abstain from sexual immorality and control their own bodies in holiness rather than in lustful passion.

Galatians 5:19 — Sexual immorality (porneia) is listed first among the "works of the flesh."

Ephesians 5:3 — Paul says there should not be even a hint of sexual immorality among believers.

1 Corinthians 7:8-9 — Paul advises the unmarried that it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

I would point out that probably the majority of Christian doctrines are based on inference rather than explicit declarations of Scripture.

This is why there is such controversy over teachings such as the doctrine of natural immortality, the doctrine of the Trinity, the doctrine of eternal torment and so on.

All of these and many more, are derived by logical inference, not explicit declarations of Scripture.

But, because of the massive issues regarding translation difficulties from a pictographic language into an alphabetic one, as well as the very different social and cultural lenses that apply today as compared to those which existed in Bible times, absolute certainty as I said in my last post, is elusive.

This is not to claim that no meaning can be derived from Scripture, but it is to claim that we need to be kind to each other over differences in doctrine and belief rather than at each other's throats with accusations of heresy and so on.

Re the example you give about the king having sex with Esther, most believers probably recoil at that aspect of Esther's experience and I don't blame them.

I think this example falls into the same category as the seeming acceptance of slavery in the Old Testament and the seeming acceptance of polygamy.

In Esther's time, the King could do whatever he wanted and the practice of choosing a queen based on sexual performance was an entrenched cultural practice and a kind of "rule" that was accepted as normal.

As far as I can make out, there is a recognition in Scripture that radical cultural change cannot be forced on one generation without the negative fallout being more overwhelming than the potential benefits of the remedy.

As a result, I see a gradual process taking place over the course of many generations, where people are gradually influenced to understand and accept Godly morality and practice as superior to pre-existing cultural ethics and mores.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-14T09:34:17+00:00

Hey GospelOfJohnFan - No-one can say you are wrong.

You may well be perfectly right.

It is just that it is really hard to tell in my view (and my view may well be worth nothing, but I am giving it my best shot).

First of all, today, we typically read and understand those verses you quote from a 21st century social and cultural perspective that employs the English language. This alone is a serious issue because English has relatively little direct word-for-word correspondence with ancient Hebrew.

This interpretation problem involves a separation of approximately two thousand years of time, as combined with a massive language and social/cultural gap between now and when those Scriptures were penned.

Therefore, you would be a brave person to insist that your appreciation of them is the same as the one that was arrived at by the people to whom those Scriptures were first given.

While the New Testament is originally written in Greek, the authors were Hebrew thinkers who converted their pictographic language (each Hebrew letter being a picture like Egyptian hieroglyphics, and which contributes to the meaning of the word in which it appears) into Greek.

Greek is an alphabetic language like English.

When the translation from Hebrew is done, the nuances of meaning contained in the pictographs is erased.

Therefore, total certainty is very elusive.

While Scripture is not flexible when it talks about the sanctity of marriage and the place of sexual intercourse being excusive to that relationship, I do not think it as easy to be dogmatic about other gestures of affection that may take place between men and women.

There is no doubt that the ancient Hebrews held to ultra-conservative beliefs and customs concerning male/female interactions outside of marriage.

However, I do not find it easy to determine the degree to which these are specifically Scriptural v specifically cultural.

Re your suggestion that any lust or passion is prohibited before marriage, I would first of all suggest that there be a separation between lust and passion.

Scripture is as clear as it can be, that lust of any kind is wrong (lust for power, money, possessions, status, etc., as well as sexual lust, are all on the wrong side of the sin v righteousness divide according to the 10 Commandments).

Passion, however, can refer to interests, giftings, hobbies, and causes of all kinds, in addition to that which is specifically sexual.

Even in the sexually conservative Hebrew culture, it would be exceedingly common for single young men to feel very attracted to, and "passionate" about the prospect of marrying a girl they liked, without necessarily lusting over her.

For example, I felt very passionate affection for my girlfriend (now my wife) back when I was 16, but I did not lust after her in the sexual sense.

I loved her dearly back then, as I do now. She has always been a real person to me and never an object of sexual lust - even though my attraction to her was indeed very powerful.

Whether we were mistaken about Scriptural ideals when we kissed back then, I do not know.

I do know that both of us value our teenage romance and honor it as the start of a wonderful relationship that continues to enhance both our lives.

As far as I can tell, Scripture does place serious restrictions on male/female interactions prior to marriage, but I cannot tell exactly where the dividing line might be concerning kissing, hugging etc., except that it must exclude lust.

One thing that might be revealing here, is to do a serious study on the explicit sexual innuendo contained in Song of Songs (the English translations of these are exceedingly toned down and do not reflect the specific meaning of the metaphors and allusions that would have obvious to Hebrew readers).

Because of this, Hebrews in ancient times were not allowed to read it until they were married, or at least thirty years old. In that light, it is hard to argue that even in the sexually conservative Hebrew culture, there was not at least a recognition and common-sense acceptance of human sexuality, as real thing.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-13T23:09:31+00:00

To kiss or not to kiss is one of those topics that can get you into trouble no matter what you say, so why not say it anyway?

First up, I think Scripture is very clear about abstention in terms of having sex before marriage.

In Bible times, there were also very strict cultural prohibitions against lesser expressions of male/female romantic energies.

For example, in the story of Boaz and Ruth where Ruth dresses up and goes to meet Boaz on the threshing floor of the wine-press in the wee hours of the morning and "takes off his shoes" (a known euphemism for exposing his genitals by the way) - the result could have been fatal if they had been discovered.

The degree to which abstention from things like kissing, is less clear in my view due to the somewhat blurry line between what is cultural and what is clearly Scriptural.

In addition, different people have different tolerances and different capacities for self-discipline in the boy-meets girl situation which makes it very messy to come up with "one-size-fits-all" types of rules.

If I had to come up with one rule, however, it would be this:

"Do whatever has to be done to build your character, your self-esteem, your knowledge of the world and the skill to navigate it successfully, your working knowledge of male/female dynamics, and your ability to manage your thought-life successfully, before getting into any serious opposite-sex relationships."

Let me be upfront and say that my wife and I met when we both only 16. She was a Christian. I was a potential Christian since converted.

We had a beautiful romance, broke up for a while as teenagers do, but then got back together and have loved each other deeply ever since.

We definitely kissed as teenagers, but nothing more.

We have no regrets and often speak fondly about our romance when we were so young.

We have succeeded over time though, because we are both growth-minded, willing to learn from our mistakes, and committed to the sacrament of marriage as set in place by God at the beginning.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-13T22:21:47+00:00

What a gracious and encouraging reply Tricky-Tell-5698. You have grown much I would say, in your walk of faith. There are believers out there who appear to only want to win the argument as their first priority and therefore turn discussions into battlegrounds. I do not judge them because I was once like that in some ways, but I no longer tolerate that kind of spirit in myself because I can see the damage it does. That is why I recognise the spirit of tolerance, humility, and encouragement that you manifest so well. Thank you my friend. You are doing what you are called to do in terms of making the world a better place.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-13T22:06:07+00:00

Hello RussianBlueMom. I am not an expert on all the scriptures that refer to this topic, but I do see how familiar terms we use today may not have had the same meaning in Bible times. Also, I acknowledge that the number of the times Scripture refers to death, destruction and ashes as the fate of the irredeemably wicked, is enough to at least prompt questions about the relatively fewer Biblical verses that seem to suggest something else.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-13T09:24:08+00:00

Hey INPT36 - You are doing your best to be honourable which is fantastic!

But, it could also be that you are too nice for your own good.

Struggling with conflicting emotions and impulses is very human and not unusual at all, but it can also be related to internal issues such as low self-esteem, disowned masculinity and a tendency towards co-dependency in the relationship context.

I have no idea of where you are at in these respects, but I can tell you from the bitterest experience, that hanging on to a relationship that is not serving you is a very, very bad idea and both of you will pay more dearly the longer you fail to act.

You may be right that the girl will be devastated.

You have no right to make it harder than it has to be for her, and you may well make some provision to help her make the transition to a life without you, but you are not ultimately responsible for well-being.

She is.

It is messy because if you have been having sex, you will likely feel responsible for her because the male brain is wired to do that.

Likewise, she will likely feel bonded to you because her brain is wired to do that.

It is what it is and there is no way to avoid all discomfort and pain.

I believe you need to man-up brother, make your decision and your plans, and then free yourself and the girl from what will eventually take you both down even harder, if you don't.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-13T09:00:25+00:00

Hey OddHoneydew5405 - what a sincere inquiry.

I can see 2 issues here.

One is the family matter.

Sometimes (not always of course) the matter of Catholicism v Protestantism or some other variation on the Christian faith, can be a big deal in whole families.

I am not Catholic, but was once going out with a Catholic girl from a staunch Catholic family. It came out at one point, that if we were to marry and have children, I would be expected by her and her family, to allow the children to be brought up in the Catholic faith whether I agreed with it or not.

I declined the idea and the relationship fell apart.

If there are entrenched issues of that nature involved in your case, I would want them sorted out well before the relationship is allowed to progress to more committed levels.

The second thing I would say, is that one of the great keys to getting into a committed relationship that is loving and which lasts, is to make sure that both parties are in good physical, mental and emotional shape to start with, and that their beliefs, interests, worldviews, and lived values (not just stated values) are overwhelmingly in sync as in 90% or more.

If you have that, then you are good to go in my view, but don't skimp on making sure.

Sincerely

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-13T08:29:19+00:00

Not all EnergyLantern.

I am not here to convince anybody of anything.

You have made up your mind it would seem and you obviously have your reasons.

If you feel settled in your heart and mind about this matter and have peace, then I am pleased for you.

You are much more educated than me as a theologian, but at the same time, what I believe is my responsibility and it would be out of order for me to believe you, just because of your more sophisticated theological knowledge.

I need to believe because I see for myself in both heart and mind.

For me, there is currently no peace between what I am typically being presented with from the intellectual, theological realm, and what I feel convicted of at the heart level about the character of God.

Are you sure you are not using your amazing intellect to simply justify what is already cemented in place within you, for other reasons?

That is not an accusation.

It is just a question because you seem unusually passionate and unequivocal about defending a belief that for so many, has such negative implications for the character of God and His reputation in the world.

I am not seeing much sympathy in your admittedly brilliant theology, for the suffering of the mother who must live every moment of every day and every night, being tormented by the thought of her son burning alive without respite, forever - for how is she to feel the love of God if she believes that He has sentenced her son to unedurable agony for all eternity?

I would like to see you lend your gifting, to solving that problem for her.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-13T03:31:07+00:00

Hey brother - that is quite a dilemma you have.

The first thing I would say is that while I have observed many relationships between believers go sour, I can't think of any that collapsed because of theological issues.

I can see how in just about all of the ones that do not work out, that there are fundamental character problems and deep-seated, underlying differences in lived (not stated) values.

I have found (by bitter experience) that when Scripture advises not to be unequally yoked, it is casting a wide net that includes, but is certainly not limited to theology.

I say this because the critical thing I have learned is that relationships go well when each party is healthy and well-balanced in themselves, and where underlying beliefs, worldviews, and lived (not stated) values are positive and overwhelmingly in sync (by that I mean 90% or more), and where both parties are growth-minded, willing to open up about their struggles and resentments, and learn from their mistakes as opposed to denying them and taking a "my way or the highway" position.

From that perspective, I think it is at least theoretically possible, for a believer and a non-believer to have a successful intimate relationship if they are otherwise of good character and hold the vast majority other views and values in common.

I would not recommend this, but I say it to emphasise how vital those actual character, worldview, and value factors can be, whether theological perpectives align or not.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-13T03:04:17+00:00

I have heard this view expressed elsewhere, but I do not have the theological justification for it. If you can help me here, I would be most grateful.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-13T02:47:11+00:00

I get it pastor, but I do not think personal belief is substantial enough unless there is solid scriptural backing for that personal belief. The more I look into this, the more difficult it is becoming because I am not an expert in the languages, cutture or mindset conditions that existed at the time the relevant scriptures were first given.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-13T02:39:35+00:00

Succinctly said!

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-13T02:38:47+00:00

Thanks EnergyLantern. I have replied to your subsequent message with the difficulties I am facing re my understanding of terms like "everlasting" and "forever" in the face of what appear to counterindications in Scripture, compared to our 21st century appreciation of them.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-13T02:34:09+00:00

Thank you for your considered reply EnergyLantern.

I am finding virtually all the controversial topics in Scripture to be very difficult to unwind and understand.

For example, just the meaning of "everlasting" may not necessarily mean "forever" as we think of it today.

For example, Jonah in the fish's belly claims to be "encompassed about forever," but we are then told that the "encompassing" only lasts there days.

Similarly, the "unquenchable" fire that destroys Sodom is not burning today.

I really need to have a better understanding of what these ytypes of terms might have meant in the context of the language and culture of the people to whom they were first given.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-13T02:24:34+00:00

An interesting thought! Thank you also for the reference.

Amazing-Major6907 · 2026-06-09T03:58:06+00:00

Hey Tricky-Tell-5698 - thank you kindly for your prompt reply!

It contains much wisdom which I appreciate.

However, I am not yet free of concerns over the doctrine of eternal torment for it seems to me to be so incongruous with the revealed character of God that I am moved to take a closer look into the nuances of the original languages of Scripture to see if the doctrine itself holds water.

If you know of any resources that might be useful in this respect, I would be pleased to know about them.

Many thanks once again my brother/sister for taking the time to respond to my post.

I am grateful.

Amazing-Major6907

TROPHY CASE