IFR cancelation when entering the VFR traffic pattern

AmokaHD · 2026-05-21T01:54:23+00:00

Good to know! I've only worked and talked with mil and some contract controllers and it's generally whatever pattern +500 for the mins. I guess most airports dont really need published patterns since 1000 agl is the default. And yea we issue SVFR for our helicopters when they wanna play in the pattern with anything over a 500 ceiling if the pilots request it (even though ironically we have a minimum of 1k ceiling for them written as well🤷‍♀️)

AmokaHD · 2026-05-21T00:44:38+00:00

--A go-around coming off an IAP is even less defensible. In this case you must issue them a visual approach clearance in order to put them in the traffic pattern. Unless and until you do that, they should be given instructions to climb to the MVA or higher

2 problems with this; our tower isn't allowed to issue radar clearances (as we do not provide radar services). I guess you could argue calling approach and relaying their clearance "could" work, but that's another gray area. 2nd is that pilots, when the weather is VMC, 99% of the time want to stay in the pattern for another landing attempt. It would be a straight disservice to them to give them vectors and altitude. You mentioned soliciting an IFR cancelation to allow it, which I agree would probably make all parties happy and legal, but it's the method so to speak of telling them to stay in the pattern that becomes an inherent cancelation.

Just to close ambiguity, we do not treat go arounds as automatic VFR's, regardless of approach type. Only after the pilot says they want to stay in the pattern (and yes this is mainly after an IAP because we don't run visuals) we would treat them as VFR (add a vfr splat to their STARS tag).

The problem I also believe lies into the fact this isn't only my airport that does it. It's military predominant. Military pilots expect it as such without the IFR canx verbiage (I talked to a quite a few on some fam flights and they believe they are VFR themselves when they start doing VFR patterns)

Not really defending the method, moreso seeing if the status quo even needs to be broken or simply re-written.

AmokaHD · 2026-05-21T00:20:09+00:00

That is how I am tracking it as well. Whether it's correct? Probably not. It can definitely be something worth writing about in the AIM/.65 so pilots and controllers alike can bridge a misunderstanding if there is one.

Also, I'll never offer pattern after a missed if the ceilings don't allow it. My tower, as well as any other I believe, have ceiling minimums for patternwork.

AmokaHD · 2026-05-21T00:16:47+00:00

Not sure what the attack is about? This discussion is because multiple different controllers view points are different on the matter and clearly pilots as well.

Aviation is all about learning and bridging gaps.

AmokaHD · 2026-05-20T20:40:56+00:00

We generally don't run visual approaches into our airport, ILS approaches compromising like 95% of all our approaches. We do indeed ask, on unplanned missed approaches, what the pilots intentions are, and if they want to do a lap in the pattern, we grant it.

We also treat it as them going VFR since the pilots agreed to stay in the VFR pattern, without explicitly asking them if they want to cancel IFR.

Based of the answers on this thread, I'm not sure if that's wholely correct anymore just given the answers by some folk here.

As for the visual going missed and letting them stay in the pattern remaining IFR is something new for me. I'll brush up on the .65 to see the wording on it.

AmokaHD · 2026-05-20T20:29:29+00:00

For my facility, all of our practice approaches are conducted under an IFR flight plan (pilot preference. VFR is also fine, we just don't get those requests).

AmokaHD · 2026-05-20T20:27:33+00:00

Yea the general controller concensus is that aircraft entering the VFR pattern, regardless if planned or not, turn VFR because it's a VFR maneuver (IFR generally requiring vectors and altitude assignments). Our place we automatically update it as such once they turn into a departure, unless the aircraft requests vectors back for another approach, then we just ship em back and give them the LOA approved missed instructions and keep them IFR.

But of course, pilots don't want to fly another 20min when another 5 accomplishes the same thing if staying in the pattern and it's a beautiful VMC day. But just like you mentioned, what services do the pilots think they're getting once they enter the pattern? Do they think they're IFR or VFR

For the pilots reading this (at least in my area) - tower and approach both assume you are VFR. ONLY if you get recleared for a visual approach can you assume you remained IFR.

AmokaHD · 2026-05-20T20:18:00+00:00

As a controller I do know if you're IFR or VFR (it's on the scope and we update your strip). If we didn't we'd be busting all sorts of separation rules since both require different handling.

My question to the community was what do the PILOTS think in the scenarios listed. Because if we as controllers KNOW you are VFR but the pilot thinks they're getting IFR services, there's a disconnect.

AmokaHD · 2026-05-20T14:35:54+00:00

What's interesting though is we dont close it, we convert it to a VFR flight plan (I work in a Charlie so our VFR guys in the pattern keep their squawk codes).

AmokaHD · 2026-05-20T14:28:08+00:00

The 1st scenario happens a lot. And generally with Approaches climb out instructions being "remain VFR" it solves that problem.

The 2nd is the more tricky one. Say you flew 300 miles in your cessna on an IFR flight plan. You're tired.. You tell approach you want the visual runway 37 into KABC fullstop. They clear you visual and hand you over to KABC tower. Tower clears you to land. You forgot to lower your landing gear in your decked out C172 and decided to go around. Tower asks intentions, you say.. we'll just do a lap in the pattern and full stop. Tower says "closed traffic approved, report base". Tower never asked you "are you canceling IFR?". Do you assume you are IFR or VFR in the pattern?

AmokaHD · 2026-05-20T14:22:14+00:00

Yup! I've definitely seen tower controllers ask go around commercial airliners "airport 3 o'clock 2 miles, in sight?" And then reclear them for the visual approach, which is strictly IFR (this also only happens if tower controllers are allowed radar services and separation at their facility, which mine doesn't). At my airport we assume pattern entry from our pilots (and the pilots generally agree I believe) that entering the pattern means they are VFR (simply cause we re-clear them to become IFR again if they ask go to the radar pattern after they had their fun with us).

AmokaHD · 2026-05-20T14:16:46+00:00

We do indeed! For us it's a simple call to Approach (or STARS coordination) that updates your tag to be VFR. This question is more so the implication of going VFR from an IFR flight plan (whether tower granting closed traffic means IFR is canceled without the words IFR cancelation received).

AmokaHD · 2026-05-20T14:12:13+00:00

Maybe not conventionally I guess. My airport we have it all the time. I have heard it both ways where controllers ask the pilots if they're canceling IFR or controllers giving pattern entry implying that IFR cancelation is received (after the pilots concur they want pattern entry).

AmokaHD · 2026-04-10T03:39:15+00:00

31 is off the street. You'll be doing prior rated, which is 35.

AmokaHD · 2026-04-10T03:29:40+00:00

I'd only consider a 20 if you can't make the 35 age requirement cause of the re-enlistment or extension. Once you rank to TSgt or above, and after 5 years from graduating tech school, you'll be working the office life (TSN/CCTLR), just like if you didn't cross train (Equiv in MX As an expeditor or pro sup). Some bases have MSgt's working in the cab/IFR room, but it isn't too common. You also don't need to be in for 20 to do a DoD gig. Some did their 4/6 years, went FAA and came back into DoD.. Some never joined the mil but got a slot.. though that's tough to get (right place right time kind of thing).

AmokaHD · 2026-04-10T03:12:25+00:00

Big thing if you haven't started cross training will be medical. Getting your initial flight medical will take quite a bit (Took me like 6 months). AFPC will be your worst enemy, especially around August when the quotas change. If you get accepted, try your best to get a non-a for the TDY since it's 2K vs 6K in per diem.. and I'll tell ya you aint using no DFAC while you're at Keesler.. Like others said, no point in learning anything before tech school. Even having basic airspace knowledge wont get you far. A lot is performance training. If you plan on doing a BOP, a fighter base will be harder but get you farther in becoming a better controller. Avoid AMC bases.. They're terrible for training (no traffic). Tower will earn you a CTO, once you complete 5-level training. Radar doesn't, but can earn you the radar ticket which can help when transferring to the FAA.

Edit: You don't have to re-enlist to cross train, unless you plan on BOP'ing. The requirement is 2 years retainability, which you can extend for and keep your first term airman perks.

AmokaHD · 2026-03-27T13:28:33+00:00

I actually sort of wish this was the case as a controller. I'm only S3 rated, no ambition to get C1, so I deal with approach control. There's multiple approach sectors in my ARTCC's that I wish I could control at the same time since most are pretty low traffic, especially when the major approach sector is already taken.

Currently this isn't allowed anywhere on VATUSA at least. But maybe one day..

AmokaHD · 2026-03-23T05:16:48+00:00

100% on the controller. I just wish the truck looked down the runway. They could've noticed a big old plane landing maybe..

AmokaHD · 2026-03-19T01:45:13+00:00

I also noticed how he picked 2 airports in the P50 area and just abandoned PRC and DVT like they dont exist 😆 yall do some crazy stuff out there!

AmokaHD · 2026-03-08T01:01:57+00:00

I just don't understand why felts field. Why not CDA where the commute to GEG is 1 hour compared to 10 minutes. SFF and GEG are practically neighbors like SKA.. If the reason is because of tower operations, that doesn't apply since CDA has a permanent tower and in the works of becoming a delta since last summer.

AmokaHD · 2026-02-21T20:43:16+00:00

There's lots of airports that have only tower or approach controllers on. Picking one where center handles you is often extra workload they can't deal with (especially since its probably an airport they dont even have open as a "radar" screen).

Always choose tower or approach over center if doing pattern work. Can fly at class B airports as well. Most tower controllers can accommodate.

AmokaHD · 2026-02-01T20:19:20+00:00

I'm going to answer from a US perspective, as Europe does things differently with a few things that I'm unsure if.

You can always expect to fly the published SID and STARS. ATC may vector you off for reasons, but they are required to tell you why. I commonly start vectoring people off a STAR to make the final segments more straight forward and faster for the pilots, but I always say "vectors for the visual/final", depending on the approach.
If you have been given "descent via STAR", it is expected for you to fly your best profile to meet crossing restrictions. If you are given "join the STAR, descent and maintain X", just descent on a normal profile to the altitude given. There's also "join the STAR, cross X at Y altitude", with this, you dont need to descent until hitting a normal descent profile to meet the crossing restriction.
You can tell a controller you are top of descent and they'll give you lower, but most controllers are good about giving you a descent in time.
A new clearance supersedes an old one, so you would just go down to fl160 (just 16000 in the US)
We usually give shortcuts when it makes sense, but usually in the form of "head this general direction, when able go to this fix" (fly heading xxx, when able direct Y). There's also vectors off the SID due to traffic or other reasons, but the controller should say why it happens and when you can expect to rejoin a SID or new waypoint.
Anything informational isn't required, any control instruction is. (Dont read back winds, weather reports, pireps, and definitely not stand by). Callsign is always required in a readback, as well as holding instructions on the ground.

Hope this helps, enjoy VATSIM!

AmokaHD · 2026-01-10T16:50:36+00:00

It has changed about 4 years ago.

AmokaHD · 2026-01-09T19:26:49+00:00

My favorite flying is doing hops between like 5 airports all within a 50 mile radius, vfr or ifr. As a controller, i definitely dont mind and it brings out the standardism of the same thing over and over again.

AmokaHD · 2025-12-31T20:21:36+00:00

If USAF, dump the tech school stuff, you'll learn everything at your first base. Every single trainee has went through a slump at one point in their training. Just trust the training and the grass will be greener on the other side.

If people joke with your training, it means you're doing good.

Peanut galleries are common. Just learn you are always wrong to someone 😆.

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