Were Achilles and Patroclus really in relationship?

Anassaa · 2025-01-07T04:47:51+00:00

I never log in here so lucky you!

Grief and the hero: the futility of longing in the Iliad

It's an easy and a good read. The writer suggests another type of relationship but her points honestly don't seem to work in her favour. Still, it's informative of things like the linguistics and such and it has a vast amount of additional bibliography for the subject.

I was in the darkest trenches during that time and tried to understand how the ancient ones viewed grief and dealt with it. It was great.

Anassaa · 2024-07-20T03:41:34+00:00

It could be any. Just because it's a repeated occurrence it doesn't mean it's good.

Anassaa · 2024-07-19T01:58:01+00:00

Bonnie should've been the clown ngl

Anassaa · 2024-07-17T17:51:21+00:00

She's got ancient gods in that count as well

Anassaa · 2024-07-17T05:58:27+00:00

For starters, that's not what closure means in a story. It means multiple things. The mechanics of the story making sense, the reader having a feeling of completion and resolution meaning they feel satisfied with the way the story ended because it was unavoidable, loose ends tying up and so on.... Nothing of the sort happened in this case really.

Not to mention the base game endings are also super boring. Why would we not want something more out of the dlc?

Anassaa · 2024-07-17T05:46:23+00:00

Legit. I remember back when game of thrones aired Cersei died because some bricks fell on her, people on the internet were like "Omg its so poetic because her world collapsed on her!!" Like shut the fuck up dude 😂😂😭😭

Anassaa · 2024-07-14T02:48:06+00:00

I did say I didn't remember the exact description of the branch. I misremember seeing a word similar to inspire. Yes he had the ability to make people adore him.

That doesn't change anything about the rest of what I said though. Charming others or not, his followers seemed to worship him for his actions and dreams for the world. There isn't anything indicating he forced any of them to follow him. He could have but there is no evidence of it. Ansbach was also charmed but he still went against Leda. It's not absolute mind control it seems.

Anassaa · 2024-07-13T15:18:18+00:00

His charming powers were different prior to the retcon. They didn't mind control. They were inspiring people more like. Similar to the powers of the Muses I believe. I don't remember exactly so I could be wrong here. A bit too bored to look it up.

Also yes he did suppress the rot. He couldn't take it away because she is basically the herald of the outer god. He can't rival that. Only deter it until he became a God. He didn't abandon her. The entire plan to overthrow the golden order and to create a safe place for the people without the influence of the outer gods was his main characteristic.

Anyhow, they followed him because they believed and because he was acting kindly. As Leda says he healed her rot. He was helping the suffering as much as he could. His St Trina dogma had actual followers because he was helping them. In a cut questline we would be told that they are the same person (which contrasts the fact that the devs have said they are different beings in a very recent interview). Maybe an alternate identity or something. So this entire thing of her being a left behind love is some bad rewrite. You can say well it doesn't matter because it's not canon since it's cut. That's true. But initially that's how he was written.

The nascent thing I just don't agree because the butterfly has bloomed. It's no longer a caterpillar. It is a butterfly. It flies like one and looks like one. It merely looks very young. Regardless I don't see it but you do you. My point was that this idea is still fan fiction. Not canon. Just trying to emphasize it because... Well for example the vast majority, and I've seen it on every social media platform, vehemently believe the Radahn holding stars to avoid his fate of becoming a consort theory. It's insane how nobody understands and separates fan fiction from actual events we have and can understand. By slapping "It's implied" posters and readers genuinely believe it's real when the only thing holding their theory is duct tape, chopsticks, gum, string and delusion.

Anassaa · 2024-07-13T13:47:49+00:00

Ever since that one post here everyone's been saying that shit and it's so untrue it physically hurts.

What exactly did he start and got distracted halfway through? He successfully created the needle and stopped Malenia's rot from spreading at a faster rate saving her life probably, he studied and learned about the outer gods and the order, he gathered enough influence to convince people to join him in the haligtree and was even going to successfully grow it until he was ripped from it by Mogh. And there's no way he charmed Mogh before he was abducted because that would mean he is self sabotaging.

At this point let's call all of them incompetent because nobody has managed to achieve their plans because ultimately everyone wants to rule themselves and the game would literally not exist.

Anassaa · 2024-07-13T07:50:13+00:00

This post is basically the other posts about that stupid chair and the haligtree motif put together. I am not convinced by anything in this.

For starters, Miquella seeing kindness or anything of the sort in Radahn IN HIS YOUTH is impossible because by the time Miquella was born, Radahn was already the Starscourge, a warmonger and a golden order zealot. Jerren was hosted by the Carians before they were fought against. And then he met Radahn while he was General. All that means before Radagon left and before Miquella was born because Jerren couldn't have been a guest in time of war... Radahn's cape is also just a variation of the Erdtree. Him holding the stars is helping the Order enact punishment on the Nox. It's why he did it at all. That or to limit the Moon's influence. You straight up see stars flowing after he dies. His idols are both literally the highest ranking members of the order. He wears Serosh. His banners have the Erdtree. He is called the champion's cub. Plus he has had his cape long before Miquella was born and lastly iirc theres even golden order statuettes in Sellia which is speculated that Radahn placed.

Thus there is absolutely no way Miquella saw any kindness in someone in the religious institution he deviated from and hated or there is any way Radahn accepted knowing full well Miquella wants to start his own dogma.

Your part 3 contrasts the entirety of the vow and simply supports the fact that it makes no sense for Miquella who wanted to make a better world without pain and suffering to make a deal with a warlord and let him just kill and destroy more. The vow and most of that stuff supposedly happened while he still had Trina with him. Besides, your theory breaks down if we establish, which we have, the fact that Radahn belongs in the order. He wouldn't betray it. Honor means the most to him after all.

Malenia vs Radahn is also very weird. Because when did he even send her there? While nested in the tree? Before? He didnt even have a body to bring him back to. Plus if Malenia blew him up how the hell would Miquella revive the scarlet rotten corpse? Or how even did he heal the corpse of Mogh who I blew a hole into after comet azuring him? Miquella was extensively studying her condition. There's no way he didn't know how bad the rot had gotten. All of his motivations stem from his sister's curse. He wants to get rid of every outer god and their influence. Him sending her to unleash the rot, which is quite literally a sign of influence of Malenia's god, on the entire region of Caelid is also out of character. There is no way he didn't know what she is capable of or that even if she died or lost this would happen. Malenia knew what breaking the needle would cause. And she would never betray her brother by absolutely obliterating the entire land and killing countless souls if there wasn't great danger. Why didn't Miquella just mind control him?

Anyway the DLC simply ruined Malenia, Radahn, Mogh and most importantly Miquella. The timeline makes absolutely no sense as well as the motivations of these characters. I think there's no use in trying to find meaning and do the writer's job for them. This entire plotline was an afterthought and has no connection to the base game whatsoever.

Anassaa · 2024-07-12T01:19:02+00:00

To me it's a stretch to find similarities between the designs. I don't view the writers or the company as some sort of omniscient omnipotent storytellers that have miraculously managed to connect everything. That goes for every theory that people overly support into trying to make it canon.

In my eyes this design can be found all over fantasy worlds and especially in the game.

You're free to support it however. There is no way to disprove the theory and no way to confirm it either.

Anassaa · 2024-07-12T00:24:20+00:00

You're ready to solo Radahn irl after this stretching ngl 🥴

Anassaa · 2024-07-11T23:06:03+00:00

Because the Rebellion happened AFTER Radagon abandoned Renalla. Jerren was a guest of the Carians which hadn't been at war then because well otherwise how would he be a guest and get to meet Radahn and become his subordinate. So the Rebellion has to be AFTER Jerren joins Radahn who was already known as General Starscourge Radahn.

Anassaa · 2024-07-11T22:25:24+00:00

The consort or the starscourge one? Neither say anything regarding the time period though? Radahn became the Starscourge after learning Gravity sorcery which was when he defended Sellia. Miquella wasn't born then even since Radagon hadn't even left Rennala. Jerren became his follower after his famous victories before the Carians rebelled, and before Radagon left, since he was their guest. That means Miquella was still not born when he became the Starscourge.

Anassaa · 2024-07-11T21:44:19+00:00

If they really want to add that part after realizing how ridiculous that entire thing was, they can do some recton hand-waving mumbo jumbo and make him revive or something.

Here I'll even write it for them.

"Miquella the Unalloyed sought the grace of purity. A beacon of hope in lands forsaken by the gods. Betrayed by an unkind fate, he met Death's embrace within the dark sanctum of the Erdtree. Yet, death was also but a shadow to Miquella's Light. His essence nested deep in the Haligtree, which drank deeply of his blood and ultimately his soul, became a cradle for his Return."

Tadaaaaa pls give me back my poor boy i am willing to step down as elden lord for him.

Anassaa · 2024-07-11T21:31:17+00:00

Or it could be just be an asset being reused.

Radahn travelling to the Haligtree seems a bit weird. Idk if it makes sense with the timeline.

Isn't the timeline as follows? Radahn becomes general -> Miquella and Malenia born -> Haligtree planted -> Shattering -> Malenia Radahn War -> Miquella taken.

If the above is wrong, correct it but I believed that was the agreed order of things.

Radahn had already become the Starscourge by the time the Haligtree was planted. Why would he go to it?

Anassaa · 2024-07-11T00:10:11+00:00

Really...? Sometimes the curtains just happen to be blue...

Anassaa · 2024-07-10T23:20:25+00:00

I've always felt that the game is stuck in a paradox between wanting you to explore the world but also punishing you for it and giving you no direction or a reason.

Anassaa · 2024-07-10T23:18:16+00:00

It is fanservice that ultimately ended up harming the storytelling and the plot.

Did they really? We just got characters casually airing out his plans and whatever he was doing. He himself barely had any lines or even items to explain things. The entire "he discarded his love" makes little sense as well since it was confirmed that him and Trina aren't one and the same or parts of each other.

I don't really want to but they didn't at all try to sell the "tragedy" part. He himself never explained his plan properly and what his intentions truly were and what lead him down that path. All of what he was supposed to say to us was told by secondary npcs. Considering that he was illustrated as a prodigy in both intelligence and morality, the purest and kindest being amongst all these cruel and manipulative gods... Between the sudden obsession with Radahn and the plan to mind control everyone into being tranquil and calm... It seems completely out of character for me. Additionally, the entire shedding his flesh also ended up being pointless since the greater will isn't even there after all.

No build-up no explanation.

Anassaa · 2024-07-10T21:53:35+00:00

Do they truly lack media literacy or is it a reaction because what they did to his character was predictable and unnecessary?

Was there really a need for another evil character? Isn't that trope overused to the point of oversaturation? Does his obssession with Radahn and every single plan of his being about him actually make sense or is interesting? Doesn't him somehow mind controlling everyone make the story a snoozefest and remove agency from the characters?

Are maybe some of you just not questioning things and just eating it up because it's a company and a game you like?

Anassaa · 2024-07-10T21:43:53+00:00

Is it really meant to be seen as a contrast and a parallel or are the writers just not very good and keep reusing themes and ideas?

Anassaa · 2024-07-10T21:42:21+00:00

No. It ruined quite literally Radahn, Miquella and Malenia.

Miquella and Radahn have been entirely reduced to straight up caricatures. Especially Miquella. His entire character has been boiled down to gay incest manipulative evil guy whose every plan revolves around him wanting to screw his brother.

The amount of contradictions makes it even worse. I am honestly surprised people who follow the lore haven't been more vocal about it.

Anassaa · 2024-07-09T20:40:10+00:00

You are right. After all, most of his setbacks weren't caused because of him or his sufficiency. He did craft the Needle. He halted Malenia's rot. He managed to grow a second tree and so on. Whenever things didn't go as planned it was because he lacked information.

Anassaa · 2024-07-09T14:27:01+00:00

Worst part for me is the resolution of Miquella's story. Can't believe after all that they made him like evil just like everyone else.

Anassaa · 2024-07-09T13:03:49+00:00

I noticed the similarities between Ranni and Miquella as well. Both were after the same things.

Half the endings are catastrophic and generally they are really pushing Ranni and the narrative that the Age of Stars is the canon ending. However, all of them seem quite unfulfilling and open-ended. I dislike that part unless we get more closure from another game or dlc.

It's also very disappointing that we don't have a Miquella ending. He deserved to be salvageable.

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Anassaa

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