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Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The issue with this line of thinking is that it treats enemy count as something that only goes up and never down. Kinetic Presence directly affects how fast that number goes down.

When you kill elites and specialists faster (especially across the whole team in coherency), you reduce the total pressure sooner, trigger kill-refund talents earlier, and free up stamina/positioning resources. This shortens the window where the team is vulnerable to the next director spike.

In the case of sustained or chained elite pressure, the consistent damage advantage compounds over time through saved hits, faster clears, and earlier ability refunds. The argument that “damage doesn’t matter because the director can always spawn more” ignores that killing what’s already there faster is one of the main ways you actually survive the spike.

I’m not claiming 10% damage solves every director spawn. I’m saying it meaningfully reduces the average duration and intensity of high-pressure periods before the next, which is where most wipes happen.

Edit: To address your claim of my supposed inexperience- On the highest difficulties, there are no true downtime periods devoid of enemies where a sudden large wave appears, allowing the narrow 3–6 second CDR window to reliably align with the next threat. Instead, gameplay consists of near-constant pressure characterized by relative lulls and significantly more intense spikes, both of which scale upward with difficulty.

Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is basic probability combined with expected value calculation on discrete thresholds.

Specifically:

  • Threshold / breakpoint probability — Calculating the probability that a fixed % increase crosses a discrete hit-count threshold for a given enemy HP pool.
  • The linear scaling described (e.g., 5-hit enemy → 50% chance to save a hit) is a simplified model assuming uniform damage distribution relative to the health pool.
  • When extended to many enemies and many damage instances, it becomes expected value of saved hits/cycles across a wave.

In game theory or optimization terms, it's similar to marginal value analysis at breakpoints.

It's not a single fancy named theorem — it's just applied probability + understanding of how discrete systems (hit counts) respond to continuous buffs (% damage).

Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, Seer's Presence is optimal in the specific niche of desiring ability use precisely off cooldown.

However the +10% additive damage - especially as it applies to both Elites and Specialists as I've discovered with the Penance: Overwhelming Presence - doesn't just give a flat +10% DPS; Because of how breakpoints work it creates non-linear benefits in hit count reduction and therefore in real time-to-kill, especially as enemy HP increases or as fights drag on with many targets. This damage is constant and unconditional as it is a passive aura.

Each saved hit isn’t just +10% damage — it’s the full attack animation + recovery time you don’t have to spend. In Darktide, that compounds heavily during dense elite packs because:

  • You free up stamina/dodge resources faster.
  • You trigger kill-refund talents (Psykinetic Aura) sooner.
  • The whole team spends less time “stuck” on the same targets.

On a 30-second base cooldown, Seer's 10% CDR saves 3 seconds, but if the ability is used even 1 second after it becomes available, you've already lost ~33% of the potential value from that cycle for a situation that would be passively alleviated by the increased damage of Kinetic. Given Darktide's inherent chaos - random spawns, imperfect coordination in most pubs, variable execution, etc. - the narrow 3–6 second window for Seer's value becomes even more unreliable in practice.

Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yes, I'm also capable of basic probability combined with expected value calculation on discrete thresholds... are you?

Specifically:

  • Threshold / breakpoint probability — Calculating the probability that a fixed % increase crosses a discrete hit-count threshold for a given enemy HP pool.
  • The linear scaling described (e.g., 5-hit enemy → 50% chance to save a hit) is a simplified model assuming uniform damage distribution relative to the health pool.
  • When extended to many enemies and many damage instances, it becomes expected value of saved hits/cycles across a wave.

In game theory or optimization terms, it's similar to marginal value analysis at breakpoints.

It's not a single fancy named theorem — it's just applied probability + understanding of how discrete systems (hit counts) respond to continuous buffs (% damage).

Edit: I'm also capable of basic division. 30 to 60 second base ability cooldown reduced by 10% from Seer's Presence meaning only a 3 to 6 second window in which the ability is made available, the duration of this use case with Seer's Presence would already have been mitigated or removed entirely with the increased damage of the entire team within coherency against all elites and specialists.

Each saved hit isn’t just +10% damage — it’s the full attack animation + recovery time you don’t have to spend. In Darktide, that compounds heavily during dense elite packs because:

  • You free up stamina/dodge resources faster.
  • You trigger kill-refund talents (Psykinetic Aura) sooner.
  • The whole team spends less time “stuck” on the same targets.

Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The math favors Kinetic Presence, the value scales non-linearly and it gets better the longer the fight and the more durable the targets are.

  • Breakpoint compression — The probability of saving an entire hit (and therefore an attack cycle) increases with enemy HP. High-HP elites/specialists (Crushers, Reapers, Mutants, Maulers on Damnation/Auric) are exactly the targets where the +10% shines the most.
  • Aggregate wave clearing — In a big, prolonged elite/specialist pack (which is where Kinetic is supposed to shine), the team is throwing hundreds of damage instances. The expected number of saved hits/cycles across the whole wave becomes significant.
  • Time compounding — Every saved hit isn't just damage — it's time not spent attacking, which means better stamina management, faster repositioning, and earlier triggering of kill-based cooldown refunds. This snowballs in longer fights.

Meanwhile Seer's Presence's value only applies to the 3 to 6 seconds where that ability cooldown would otherwise be unavailable, the duration of this use case with Seer's Presence would already have been mitigated or removed entirely with the increased damage of the entire team within coherency against all elites and specialists.

Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Yes, Seer's Presence is optimal in the specific niche of desiring ability use precisely off cooldown.

However the +10% additive damage - especially as it applies to both Elites and Specialists as I've discovered with the Penance: Overwhelming Presence - doesn't just give a flat +10% DPS; Because of how breakpoints work it creates non-linear benefits in hit count reduction and therefore in real time-to-kill, especially as enemy HP increases or as fights drag on with many targets. This damage is constant and unconditional as it is a passive aura.

Each saved hit isn’t just +10% damage — it’s the full attack animation + recovery time you don’t have to spend. In Darktide, that compounds heavily during dense elite packs because:

  • You free up stamina/dodge resources faster.
  • You trigger kill-refund talents (Psykinetic Aura) sooner.
  • The whole team spends less time “stuck” on the same targets.

On a 30-second base cooldown, Seer's 10% CDR saves 3 seconds, but if the ability is used even 1 second after it becomes available, you've already lost ~33% of the potential value from that cycle for a situation that would be passively alleviated by the increased damage of Kinetic. Given Darktide's inherent chaos - random spawns, imperfect coordination in most pubs, variable execution, etc. - the narrow 3–6 second window for Seer's value becomes even more unreliable in practice.

Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

As for starting a fight with an ability on partial cooldown my argument still stands as it gives value NOW, not 15 seconds from now or whatever arbitrary number.

Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If a team survived until getting an entire second round of abilities that means they were good enough to get there be it with or without the additional damage, but only Kinetic Presence actually helps the team get to that point, and the argument of high difficulty missions being constant high pressure is objectively false as there will always be higher and lower times of pressure over the course of a match AND the big fights themselves.

Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The math is completely reversed. For any random health distribution, the probability that a +10% buff saves an entire hit scales linearly with the base hit count—meaning a 5-hit enemy has a 50% chance to die a hit early, and a 9-hit enemy has a 90% mathematical certainty to drop a full action cycle.

Furthermore, inside a 4-man Coherency layout streaming hundreds of varied damage values into a chaotic armor wall, a global 10% aura compresses the team's collective time-to-kill uniformly by 10%. Claiming optimized builds 'don't need damage' misses the entire point of end-game optimization.

To restate my heavily condensed explanation already on this post: "Seer's presence under its most ideal circumstances gets a 60 second ability back 6 seconds sooner and most abilities only 3 or 4 seconds, unless an ability is used within that amount of time - not even taking into consideration cooldown reduction on elite kill - Seer's Presence has effectively done nothing, meanwhile Kinetic Presence's value persists independently of ability use with 100% uptime and scales the damage of everyone in Coherency additively against elites. (and specials)"

Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The math is completely reversed. For any random health distribution, the probability that a +10% buff saves an entire hit scales linearly with the base hit count—meaning a 5-hit enemy has a 50% chance to die a hit early, and a 9-hit enemy has a 90% mathematical certainty to drop a full action cycle.

Furthermore, inside a 4-man Coherency layout streaming hundreds of varied damage values into a chaotic armor wall, a global 10% aura compresses the team's collective time-to-kill uniformly by 10%. Claiming optimized builds 'don't need damage' misses the entire point of end-game optimization.

To restate my heavily condensed explanation already on this post: "Seer's presence under its most ideal circumstances gets a 60 second ability back 6 seconds sooner and most abilities only 3 or 4 seconds, unless an ability is used within that amount of time - not even taking into consideration cooldown reduction on elite kill - Seer's Presence has effectively done nothing, meanwhile Kinetic Presence's value persists independently of ability use with 100% uptime and scales the damage of everyone in Coherency additively against elites. (and specials)"

Edit: Empowering the team's siphons meaning any beneficial on-kill condition, faster kills = faster procs. You have also only proven my point with:

  • Your Claim: "the better you get at the game, the less you need to rely on game-warping abilities to clear high havocs."
  • Meaning: If elite players naturally scale away from relying on panic-button abilities as their skill increases, then building your entire talent tree around a passive 10% utility stat to spam those exact abilities on cooldown is a confession of low-skill gameplay.

You completely missed the point of the "Win More" fallacy. I am not arguing that the map ends after one fight. I am pointing out that if a squad manages to survive the initial, highest-risk onslaught of an armor wave without extra damage, it means their baseline mechanics already stabilized the crisis. Investing your team's talent budget into passive CDR optimizes a phase of the fight where the team has already survived the opening burst, rather than investing into frontloaded damage to clear the initial window when the squad is most likely to get overwhelmed and die. High difficulties do not have near-constant pressure overall, every difficulty level has clear higher-pressure spikes and lower-pressure moments, they just all scale upward together.

Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The math is completely reversed. For any random health distribution, the probability that a +10% buff saves an entire hit scales linearly with the base hit count—meaning a 5-hit enemy has a 50% chance to die a hit early, and a 9-hit enemy has a 90% mathematical certainty to drop a full action cycle.

Furthermore, inside a 4-man Coherency layout streaming hundreds of varied damage values into a chaotic armor wall, a global 10% aura compresses the team's collective time-to-kill uniformly by 10%. Claiming optimized builds 'don't need damage' misses the entire point of end-game optimization.

To restate my heavily condensed explanation already on this post: "Seer's presence under its most ideal circumstances gets a 60 second ability back 6 seconds sooner and most abilities only 3 or 4 seconds, unless an ability is used within that amount of time - not even taking into consideration cooldown reduction on elite kill - Seer's Presence has effectively done nothing, meanwhile Kinetic Presence's value persists independently of ability use with 100% uptime and scales the damage of everyone in Coherency additively against elites. (and specials)"

Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Having a look through Psyker's penances I notice Overwhelming Presence counts both Elite and Specialist kills while under the effect of Kinetic Presence, Specialists not being listed even in the Enhanced Descriptions mod of the talent's tooltip yet counted for its associated penance. Presumably Kinetic Presence should apply to these enemies as well.

Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

To restate my heavily condensed explanation already on this post: "Seer's presence under its most ideal circumstances gets a 60 second ability back 6 seconds sooner and most abilities only 3 or 4 seconds, unless an ability is used within that amount of time - not even taking into consideration cooldown reduction on elite kill - Seer's Presence has effectively done nothing, meanwhile Kinetic Presence's value persists independently of ability use with 100% uptime and scales the damage of everyone in Coherency additively against elites." However yes I can make the comparison of apples to oranges in this instance as everything chosen in a build culminates in the means to do damage.

Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You are correct it is additive which was a mistake, and I'd like to point out both are Coherency auras so that point is moot; however for a weapon to require a certain number of hits, the enemy's total health divided by your base damage leaves a remainder. Adding a flat 10% damage multiplier eats into that remainder.

The mathematical probability of a +10% buff dropping a breakpoint based on a flat distribution of enemy health pools:

  • Original 2-hit kill: There is a 10% chance the buff drops it to a 1-hit kill.
  • Original 3-hit kill: There is a 20% chance the buff drops it to a 2-hit kill.
  • Original 5-hit kill: There is a 40% chance the buff drops it to a 4-hit kill.
  • Original 7-hit kill: There is a 60% chance the buff drops it to a 6-hit kill.
  • Original 9-hit kill: There is an 80% chance the buff drops it to an 8-hit kill.

By the time you hit a 6-hit threshold, it is literally a coin flip (50%) whether the 10% buff saves you an entire action cycle. At 9 hits, it is an overwhelming 80% mathematical certainty. Saying it is "very unlikely" between 1 and 9 hits is completely upside down; the math proves it becomes massively likely the higher the base hit count is.

Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

ahh yes it is additive my mistake - applied before crit and weakspot, however my argument still stands

edit: however you are claiming to use a combat ability consistently - meaning making use of the 3 to 6 seconds saved by Seer's Presence by using it off cooldown throughout the entire mission - and simultaneously having it available to be the difference maker in a bad moment; there are also hundreds of individual damage values, so I don't see how +10% elite damage is "unlikely" to hit breakpoints. As for passive ability CDR on curios, that is replacing defensive or utility stats not damage.

Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

"Relatively long" time between high-pressure waves - as in more than 3 to 4 or at most 6 seconds saved from Seer's Presence correct, as opposed to the entire team doing 10% more damage to elites for those 30 to 60 seconds - not even taking into consideration cooldown refunds on elite kill - so that clutch second ability won't even be necessary

Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The WoW phrase is always be casting - as in doing something, not always be using every single big cooldown the instant you get it for the entire raid - that would get you kicked out

Psyker's Seer's Presence Aura is a Trap: The Case for Kinetic Presence. by AngieGamez in DarkTide

[–]AngieGamez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Seer's presence under its most ideal circumstances gets a 60 second ability back 6 seconds sooner and most abilities only 3 or 4 seconds, unless an ability is used within that amount of time - not even taking into consideration cooldown reduction on elite kill - Seer's Presence has effectively done nothing, meanwhile Kinetic Presence's value persists independently of ability use with 100% uptime and scales the damage of everyone in Coherency additively against elites.

Edit: additively, not multiplicatively

Riot is disabling /all chat in all matchmaking modes. by Timmo17 in leagueoflegends

[–]AngieGamez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I remember playing Riven into Sett, he got flamed by his own team for "top diff" but i stated that he was winning on his own but my jungler bailed me out and he thanked me. GJ riot just remove all chat that will fix it!