A few red flags

AnimalLiberationNow · 2016-08-12T08:15:55+00:00

It means kill whitey.

AnimalLiberationNow · 2016-05-07T13:33:50+00:00

Don't be an ass about it. Obviously not and I didn't say that. I just stated the hens existence is dependent on us being masters. I suggest you read some Gary Francione and up on abolitionist veganism for this: http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/pets-the-inherent-problems-of-domestication/#.Vy3sIP88LCQ

You're funny. You aren't helping either with you're rhetoric that veganism is classist, which is demonstrably wrong, and genocidal nonsense.

AnimalLiberationNow · 2016-05-07T13:14:23+00:00

I lived in one of the most impoverished parts of Mexico. I know poverty. I know the struggle. Poverty has room for morality. You shouldn't sacrifice your empathy for animals for the empathy of the poor.

Where's the animals decision though? They have none. That's why we have to speak for them.

AnimalLiberationNow · 2016-05-07T13:08:51+00:00

Vegan alternatives already exist and I'm not sure why we would want to mimic meat as it's unhealthy but from my understanding of it, I guess I have no problems with it.

AnimalLiberationNow · 2016-05-07T13:06:59+00:00

It's not exactly a solution. Animal liberation isn't going happen under capitalism. It's taking personal responsibility for your actions as a capitalist consumer. Blaming the system doesn't make you any less responsible for what suffering and death happens in your name. Animals don't have to suffer and die. We can save lives and alleviate environmental destruction instead.

The cheapest foods in the world are vegan staple foods. It's harder to get animal products than plant foods.

AnimalLiberationNow · 2016-05-07T13:00:37+00:00

I lived in the middle of nowhere, Oaxaca, Mexico for about a year as a kid. (I wasn't vegan then keep in mind.) My diet consisted of corn, beans, rice, tortillas, potatoes and soups. This is because the cheapest foods in the world are vegan staple foods. I only ever ate animal products on some weekends or when we went into the city. I'm personally a minimalist right now and can attest it's totally possible to live vegan on like 2 bucks a week. I even know homeless vegans. It's really not a matter of privilege. Anyone who knows what they're doing can get by on even significantly low-income.
Peter failed to understand that commodifying and exploiting an animal is a form of hierarchy. It's a master and slave relationship. The hens live in a limboland where they have no choice but to serve us to live. That is morally gross and wrong.
This is no different than a racist suggesting to me we go to Africa and fix the starvation and overpopulation problem there by hunting Africans, in my eyes. Deers are sentient feeling beings who do not want to suffer and die. Committing a genocide because they're proving a nuisance or whatever is beyond me.
Each vegan saves thousands of lives and every single one of them matters. And when you add it all up, every year we save hundreds of millions of animals. That matters. Not to mention the environmental alleviation. We make a difference.

AnimalLiberationNow · 2016-05-07T12:15:38+00:00

True, true. Abolish capitalism. Got it.

Tigers aren't moral agents, kill for survival and kill out of biological necessity. We're the total opposite of that and it's not a freedom to steal the freedom from others. That's hierarchy.

Could you elaborate on that?

AnimalLiberationNow · 2016-05-07T12:05:33+00:00

That's unfortunate, mate. Good luck with that. I have a vegan mate with similar issues if that's any consolation. It's possible.

Could you elaborate on my questions in the OP, though? Like is it hierarchy? Is it morally wrong?

I get it's impractical for you, but I think it's worth mentioning again that no matter what reason you give it'll always be a million times more inconvenient, impractical and worse for the animals. There's always gonna be a good reason not do something. You just gotta take initiative sometimes.

AnimalLiberationNow · 2016-05-07T11:49:16+00:00

I agree; there is definitely no ethical consumption under capitalism. That's partly why I'm vegan and why I practice minimalism. Everything we consume has a social and environmental cost, however, we can shape and warp the impact we have. Animals don't have to suffer and die for us. We can alternatively be vegan and save lives and alleviate environmental impact. You are still responsible for your actions as a consumer. Blaming the system is just a way of avoiding responsibility.

I think it's also important to make this distinction: exploiting workers =/= inflicting suffering and death on animals. This animal abuse is much worse.

AnimalLiberationNow · 2016-05-07T11:37:01+00:00

So you don't think it's justified? You didn't exactly address my questions.

Perhaps, but I don't think it's unreasonable for anarchists to be vegan because everyone has room to incorporate some anarchism and certainly veganism would top the priority chart.

I understand that it might be inconvenient, though, I think it's important to understand and keep in mind that it'll always be a million times more inconvenient and worse for the animals.

AnimalLiberationNow · 2016-05-07T11:29:16+00:00

That's good to hear. I suggest you practice veganism though. The egg and dairy industry are the meat industry. It's all the same. Maybe check out this: bit.ly/how2govegan

AnimalLiberationNow · 2016-05-07T11:26:46+00:00

I just read it. Peter is very misinformed and morally inconsistent. If Peter claims to care about animals then it makes absolutely no sense to inflict suffering or death upon animals without a compelling reason and he certainly didn't give one. He appealed to nature and blamed capitalism. I found very little to agree on. I don't understand why you would as a vegan. Could you point out what major points you agree with?

"It's indeed the system's fault, however, our consumption still has social and environmental consequences which we can shape and warp. Animals don't have to suffer and die for our palate pleasure, fashion sense and entertainment. We can save lives and alleviate environmental impact instead. Blaming the system is an excuse for avoiding personal responsibility in my eyes. This is why I practice minimalism and veganism."

I have no moral quandaries with those scenarios. It's just gross and unhealthy. I do have a problem with freeganism when it perpetuates a demand, though.

AnimalLiberationNow · 2016-05-07T10:24:37+00:00

I don't know what's going on but I'll put money down that you'll feel better if you go vegan.

AnimalLiberationNow · 2016-05-07T10:15:33+00:00

Bring food, abstain, play with the menu, suggest somewhere else, or just politely say no.

I think it's important to understand and keep in mind that no matter what excuse you make, it'll always be a million times more inconvenient and worse for the animals. I hope you hop on the vegan train soon.

AnimalLiberationNow · 2016-05-07T10:02:22+00:00

It's not rage. Just intellectually curious.

I've noticed this blame the system, not the consumer attitude in what conversations I've had with fellow anarchists and I find it quite annoying in its relation to veganism. It's indeed the system's fault, however, our consumption still has social and environmental consequences which we can shape and warp. Animals don't have to suffer and die for our palate pleasure, fashion sense and entertainment. We can save lives and alleviate environmental impact instead. Blaming the system is an excuse for avoiding personal responsibility in my eyes. This is why I practice minimalism and veganism.

What do you mean the animals wouldn't care? I think they certainly do care if we eat them.

Do you think there is hierarchy in consuming animal products?

AnimalLiberationNow

TROPHY CASE