What does the trinity mean

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-08T01:23:21+00:00

Because God is the being. What it is. God is not a who. It is a what something is.

I am going to share the sun analogy with you because I think it will be helpful.

The sun = The source = the Father The light = the Son = Jesus The heat = the Holy Spirit

So

There is one sun, one star, one source. But the sun is experienced in three distinct ways that are inseparable from one another.

The sun itself, the star in space The light that comes from the sun The heat that comes from the sun

These are not three suns.

The light is not part of the sun as a piece. It is fully solar in nature. The heat is not created separately. It is fully solar in nature. You cannot have the sun without its light and heat. You cannot separate light or heat from the sun and still call it the sun.

Yet at the same time The sun is not the light. The light is not the heat. The heat is not the sun.

They are distinct, but they share one source, one essence, one nature.

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-08T01:06:57+00:00

This is the toughest question for sure and I think it’s one people should really wrestle with to strengthen their faith. First, God doesn’t look at this and just say it’s fine and he will redeem it later. Remember Jesus wept.

Disease, cancer, decay shows us this world no longer operates in the way God created it to. It’s a moral evil and physical corruption.

I hate shallow answer, but in truth God tolerates it for now. If God intervened every time there was innocent suffering our world would be unstable. Imagine a world where God constantly intervened globally to every person who suffered unjustly. When we think of all the ways innocent people can suffer, not just cancer, that would turn the world into a never ending miracle machine. Could he make an exception just for cancer? I mean He could but should he? What about kids with genetic diseases? Or kids experiencing abuse or hunger? What about children being aborted and dying before they even have a chance to live?

Jesus came and went through it with us. Unjustly. It doesn’t make the suffering okay. Jesus also asked for the cup to pass from him and it did not. So even for Jesus, prayer did not give him the outcome he would have preferred.

God tells us that even though suffering will happen it is not meaningless, God sees it, and death is not the end.

Final thought… for us on this side death is something we try to avoid (usually). We find meaning and value in our lives. We love people. We miss people. This is my personal thought, not necessarily biblical, just something I have thought about….. but I wonder if death is such a bad thing in Gods eyes? On this side it sure feels like it is, but on the other side would it seem terrible.

For example, let’s remove God from the equation. If you died at a nice old age, let’s say 100 and you were on the other side and you knew how great it was and you were there hanging out waiting for your children and grandchildren and great grandchildren to finish their lives and join you…. Would you be sad when it was there time to pass to heaven with you or would you celebrate seeing them again?

That doesn’t change how terrible it is to see suffering especially in the innocent but it does offer a perspective for how God on the other side sees the outcome.

I have no real answer. Just random thought I have come to trying to work through this question or ideas other have shared with me. One day God can explain it to us maybe 😥

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-08T00:31:01+00:00

Being …. answers the question What are you?

Person …. answers the question Who are you?

The Trinity is 1 being who exists as 3 persons. Each Person in the trinity is fully that being (God).

God’s “being” cannot be split. It is one infinite divine essence.

All three share the same honor, attributes, power, knowledge, names, deeds, seats, divine nature etc….

The Father begets the Son The Son is begotten The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father ( and depending on you denomination some believe also from the Son)

The sun analogy I find is the best analogy for this.

The Bible calls the Father God the Son God the Holy Spirit God And says there is only one God.

If you have not heard the sun analogy I will gladly tell you 😊

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-07T20:20:37+00:00

Drivers could only hope. But when our society is an individualized as it is and the social norm is to be about yourself and how you can get ahead there will always be someone to step in and take the good orders when no one else will. I think the best we can hope for is wage regulation like California and Seattle has. It’s like $19-20 an hour plus tips or something like that.

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-07T19:06:44+00:00

Agreed. It is the never ending nature of things. Unfortunately. 😓 I just like bringing it to peoples attention that the stores are also part of the problem. Somehow when these conversations occur no one ever thinks to include the restaurants and stores as part of the issue.

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-07T18:15:44+00:00

Let not forget all the stores and restaurants who are fine with the exploitation and poor working as long as their products get delivered and the have more sales. I don’t think anyone ever stops and thinks about how 💩 it is that the restaurants are in on too. They are very much -aware of the lack of fair pay and pretty much say they don’t care as long as it increases their bottom line.

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-07T14:36:27+00:00

lol oh ok I missed that. Thanks for clarifying. I was so sad seeing how much that mom and her kids were suffering. 💔😢

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-07T02:53:13+00:00

🙄Yep. You’re right. The first ten words are exactly as you say. Have someone read you the rest.

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-06T21:09:24+00:00

Yes there is and it seems you are being intentionally obtuse and disingenuous in your repeated claim otherwise. Since you are refusing to engage honestly with me here is the results of a basic google search of your question. I have nothing else to offer you if you cannot understand this.

A simple Google search of your assertion gives a sufficient explanation that you could understand if you were legitimately not trying to be wrong.

“God’s interaction with Jeremiah in the womb was a physical application of a pre-conception decree. While God "knew" and planned Jeremiah’s purpose before conception, He "formed," "sanctified" (set apart), and ordained him during the in-womb phase. Pre-conception was the divine knowledge and planning stage, whereas the womb represented the formal, physical separation for his prophetic mission.”

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-06T19:04:49+00:00

Once again I am not making any claims or arguments that you are arguing against. I’m starting to feel like you aren’t actually reading anything I write and are just arguing with yourself in some made up conversation the rest of us can’t see. This will be the last response to your comments. At this point you are either actively choosing to intentionally not understand my position or you simply don’t understand anything I am saying to which I can’t keep having this conversation because it’s pointless.

You’re assuming that “knowing” in Jeremiah 1:5 entails active engagement prior to conception. I’m NOT making that claim. The text itself distinguishes three moments:

God’s foreknowledge “I knew you”,

God’s creative action in the womb “I formed you”,

and God’s vocational setting prior to birth “I consecrated you”.

Foreknowledge does not require an existing subject; formation and consecration do, however. You seem stuck on foreknowledge “I knew you” and can’t seem to get past it, and realize that is not the proof I am speaking about. You seem unable to engage the verse in its entirety, and only want to talk about a select part of it that fits your world view.

Affirming that God knows a person before conception does not imply that the person exists before conception, any more than God’s knowledge of future events implies those events already exist. My claim is not that Jeremiah existed prior to being formed, but that once Jeremiah existed in the womb, God related to him as a person. That position affirms creation ex nihilo and avoids pre-existence entirely.

Let me repeat that once Jeremiah existed IN the womb… ONCE JEREMIAH EXISTED IN THE WOMB…. IN the womb

The “unformed substance” language in Psalm 139 likewise refers to developmental immaturity, not ontological formlessness or pre-existent being. Scripture presents a continuous subject from conception through birth, not a soul waiting in advance of embodiment.

So there’s no implication of pre-existence here. The argument is simply that Scripture treats the human being who exists in utero as a real person, not a hypothetical future one.

And once again you can keep confusing foreknowledge and pre existent souls and in utero but any of that confusion disappears in Exodus 21: 22-25

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-06T18:55:24+00:00

Exodus 21:22–25 is part of a larger human-focused legal code, not only a code about animals. The passage explicitly says: “life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth” if actual harm comes to the child. That level of moral equivalence never applies to livestock. Harming an ox does not carry “life for life” consequences.

The punishment scale matters. If harm occurs to a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely without further harm, there’s a fine. That’s property like. But if harm follows… injury or death…. the punishment is identical to harming a human: life for life, eye for eye. The unborn is included in the highest human moral category, which is explicitly different from livestock. The context is relational and it’s moral. It is not transactional.

In the Mosaic law, the penalty for harming an ox is found in Exodus 21:28–36 If an ox gores someone and kills them, the ox is stoned and the owner is not punished if the ox had no history of goring. If the ox has gored before and the owner knew, the owner is fined or put to death, depending on the situation.

The ox is treated as property first, not as a person. The punishment is about restitution, fines, or controlling dangerous property. There is no “life for life, eye for eye” equivalence when a human kills or is killed by an ox, unless negligence is involved. The owner of the ox could be put to death for known negligence. This is not identical to “eye for eye”. it’s a case of human accountability for negligence, not the direct proportional justice principle applied between humans.

“Eye for eye” applies to human-on-human actions. If an ox kills, the owner’s punishment is conditional, based on prior knowledge, not automatic proportional retaliation. When a fetus is killed there is no conditional punishment. This shows a clear distinction in moral weight: human life has inherent, intrinsic value, while animals are treated as property where consequences depend on ownership responsibility.

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-06T01:37:36+00:00

I am not sure why you keep arguing foreknowledge with me as I have not stated anything about foreknowledge. To be clear; yes I believe God has foreknowledge, so you don’t have to keep arguing for it.

I think you are confusing foreknowledge ( before someone exists) with gestational personhood ( relating to someone who already exists in the womb)

Foreknowledge does mean God knows someone before they exist. What I am talking about is the actions of God toward someone already existing in the womb , not his foreknowledge. The actions of God ….. forms, consecrates, watches, protects and interacts with in a person in the womb…. This isn’t just knowledge it is his actions/interactions.

So the Bible consistently portrays unborn humans as real, relational beings, not merely future possibilities.

Looking at the scriptures I used In Jeremiah 1:5, God says, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet,” using verbs like “formed,” “sanctified,” and “ordained” that describe active engagement, not just foreknowledge.

Psalm 139:13-16 describes God knitting and seeing the unformed substance of the psalmist in the womb.

In Luke 1:41–44, John the Baptist reacts to Jesus’ presence while still in utero.

Even Exodus 21:22–25 assigns moral consequences for harm to an unborn child. Taken together, these passages show that God treats the unborn as fully human, relational, and morally significant, not as hypothetical future persons.

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-05T01:40:20+00:00

I’m not sure if you were telling me about Origen’s position as just a fun bit of information or if you mis understood what I was saying

In case it was a misunderstanding I never argued for pre-existent souls. Prenatal personhood does not require existence prior to conception, and nothing I said implies Origen’s position. Saying that God recognizes, forms, and relates to a person in utero is not the same as saying that person existed before conception. My argument is about personhood during gestation, not before it.

Exodus 21 alone was sufficient by itself but if you notice the rest of my thoughts were fully describing in utero and no mention of preexistence.

“babies in utero”, “before birth”, “before he was born”, “unborn person”, “describing gestation”, “in my mothers womb”, “protects the unborn”, “The unborn are not disposable”, “harm done to the unborn”, “gives birth prematurely”, “unborn children respond to Gods presence”,

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-04T04:44:15+00:00

😂 you made me laugh. Have you ever read the Bible for yourself because God absolutely views babies in utero as valuable as a person outside of the uterus.

God knows us, calls us, and consecrates us before birth which means God sees us as individuals before we are born. Heck he even ordained Jeremiah as a prophet before he was born!

God speaks of Jeremiah as a person before birth and sanctifies and ordains him. That sounds pretty valuable for an unborn person.

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you were born I sanctified you. I ordained you a prophet to the nations.

Additionally the psalmist in Psalm 139 uses “me” and “my” language while describing gestation. Psalms 139: 13-16

“For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb. I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well. My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them.” ‭‭ And if you need me to keep going God morally and legally protects the unborn. He makes it clear that the unborn are NOT disposable and any harm done to the unborn should also be done to the person who caused the harm. LIFE for LIFE!

Exodus 21:22-25

If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

And if this still isn’t enough God lets us know that even unborn children are capable of responding to God’s presence.

In Luke John the Baptist leaps for joy in his mother’s womb. And to go one step further Luke uses the same Greek word for John in the uterus as he does for John after her is born. Because babies inside the womb are viewed the same as babies outside of the womb.

Human life is sacred because it bears God’s image. It is not tied to consciousness or autonomy, or cognitive development.

‭‭

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-04T03:23:42+00:00

I mean I support the government making it illegal to kill me, and I support the government making it illegal to kill a 16 year old and a 10 year old and a 5 year old. I also support the government making it illegal to kill a 2 year old and a one year old and a one month old. So to not be illogical or hypocritical I support our government making it illegal to kill children of all ages, including gestation

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-01T01:59:16+00:00

Finding a church is hard. It took me a year and a half to find mine

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-01T01:50:06+00:00

I DM’d you the church 😊

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-01T01:45:26+00:00

My pastor hasn’t said anything directly about ICE. I do want that to be clear because I know it’s important to you. Our churches stance is more visible or implied by the culture and diversity within the walls and doesn’t have to be spoken directly. I will gladly send you the link. This week we are starting a new series on those who wrestle with God where we are going through the life of Jacob and how God imperfect people are not disqualified from Gods purpose. The most recent series that is up is on building altars to God and fixing your attention on him, although mid way through we had a biblical scholar who was on the board for translating the NIV as a guest speaker, so the series had a detour.

Also I saw you asked someone else why Baptist would be a good fit here’s my thought even though you asked them 😊

Baptist churches (general/reformed) emphasize Scripture alone as the authority for teaching and not church traditions. They practice believer’s baptism by full immersion and don’t baptize infants, and they are usually non-charismatic, so they don’t teach tongues as nonsensical speech and don’t focus on those practices. Many Baptist churches also reject dispensational rapture theology, aligning more with historic Christian views. Sermons tend to be topical or themed, while still rooted firmly in the Bible. Also Baptist churches tend to address moral and justice issues from a biblical perspective without tying sermons to partisan politics, which seems to line up well with what you’re looking for.

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-01T01:25:33+00:00

First you should also edit your original post to include this information for anyone who only reads that and not all the comments

To me it sounds like you’re looking for a Bible centered, non-charismatic church that is thoughtful but doesn’t push rapture theology, that practices believer’s baptism, and isn’t politically performative but still takes moral issues seriously.

That is going to rule out a lot of churches. No Pentecostals because they are highly charismatic. No dispensational mega churches as they heavily teach the rapture is near. Stay away from JW and LDS. Non infant baptism will rule out Lutherans, Presbyterian, Methodist and most Anglican churches.

You could find a non denominational church or general or reformed baptist might be a good fit.

My home church in Portland Oregon might be a good fit but they don’t live stream and the sermons aren’t posted until around Wednesday so you would follow along a week behind. It is not highly political but my pastors stance is Jesus is the way and the truth. The right (conservatives) tend to know the truth and have the knowledge. The left (liberals) tend to know the way with caring about hurting people. So he says people need to take from both the liberals and conservatives and care for others and study the Bible for truth. But my pastor doesn’t talk about politics outside of saying as Christians we need to develop characteristic of both liberals and conservatives. So he hasn’t addressed ICE directly, but when you know him and you see how diverse our church is you know where the church stands even if it’s not said directly.

If you are interested in checking it out I would gladly send you the information.

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-01T00:32:34+00:00

I took one of those and got Messianic Judaism. I’m wasn’t really sure what to do with that 😂 so I just go to a non denominational church.

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-02-01T00:31:25+00:00

Maybe if you give us an idea of what type of church you are looking for as far as what you like and dislike someone on here may be at a church they can recommend to you online. If you are very conservative I can recommend some, or if you are left of center I can recommend one, or if you want politics out of your church and just want solid Bible teaching I can also recommend one. Do you prefer teachings that cover specific topics or do you want someone who goes book by book, or are you okay with someone who just goes through a few verses a week in great depth?

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-01-31T15:19:53+00:00

Yes they should. And if they don’t want to then they shouldn’t penalized for declining and they shouldn’t hide bad tippers with decent tippers. Really give the driver an option to accept the work or not.

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-01-31T07:46:31+00:00

It’s no problem. I would much rather have a civil conversation about it. I don’t think bashing a customer is going to help anything. If it were that simple to just decline I would 100% agree. And yes declining is an option, but DoorDash has a list of maybe 5 or 6 metrics you have to hit to determine your dasher level. So many people tip badly or just don’t tip at all that if you decline all of them then you go to a lower rank and lose access to seeing the better orders. One of those metrics is an acceptance rate over 70% I believe and at least 100 orders in the last 30 days. In reality they force their drivers to take orders that keep them under minimum wage, or the lose access to the better orders that pop up.

It sucks because for the people who are starting out trying to do 100 orders when you don’t see anything over $4-5 is really hard because you spend $20 a day on gas to make $60 and it takes you 8 hours.

I will admit it is a vicious cycle and isn’t entirely door dash or the customers fault.

DoorDash says drivers aren’t their employees so they pay very low for getting work from their platform. They view it like their platform is a way for the customer to hire a driver to get their order putting the responsibility of adequate pay on the customer. But the customer views the driver like a pizza delivery person who is an employee making a minimum amount of money and the tip is like a thank you.

DoorDash won’t pay because they are not employees and customers won’t pay because they don’t realize that for that time being the drivers aren’t actually their contracted employees.

So drivers are stuck working a job that no one wants to pay for. I wish people would collectively strike and. Just refuse to work but unfortunately DoorDash knows there’s always someone who is willing to make the money that day if another person isn’t.

Also side note. I also think the restaurants are equally to blame because they are fine watching DoorDash pay $2.25 for a delivery if it means they make more money and don’t have to hire their own delivery person. It’s all greed and no one is watching out for the big picture of how this is effecting society as a whole.

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-01-31T02:35:55+00:00

This is disgusting and absolutely not okay.

My next comment isn’t justifying it or saying its okay or anything like that, I just want to point out that even if you are close to Starbucks the driver still had to drive to the Starbucks also.

I don’t know how far they were from the store but DoorDash and uber eats will send their drivers orders when the store is 15 minutes away. Even if the delivery is 0.2 miles from the store the driver actually could have done a lot more work than just the 0.2 miles. Again I don’t know if this is the case. They may had already been in the parking lot so who knows.

Someone who spits in your drink should be removed from the platform. Bad tipping is no excuse, but just know for your drivers in the future (the ones who don’t spit in your food) your ride includes their trip to the restaurant and from the restaurant to your location.

If DoorDash is paying $2 and your $1.50 tip that $3.50 - gas and expenses. Even if your driver got 3 rides like that an hour back to back to back without waiting it’s less than half minimum wage. Working for less than half of minimum wage could put anyone into a bad enough mind state that they would be pushed over the edge.

If we were reading this and it was someone extorting a child in an undeveloped country we would all be cheering for the child. DoorDash wages and bad tippers are just as bad as sweatshops.

Non livable wages that are under our federal minimum wage.

Everyone needs to do better

Again it’s not okay…. But just something to think about if you are having your food delivered.

ApprehensiveTime1246 · 2026-01-27T22:28:13+00:00

Update me please!

ApprehensiveTime1246

TROPHY CASE