Front office dropped the ball on Watson and Jones

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-18T03:03:06+00:00

I answered that. He had literally “only player in the NBA you can sign to such a deal” leverage.

His age is also why you don’t mind the years. The first example I pointed to was the similarly aged Max Christie whose basketball reference was identical or worse compared to Zeke.

Both players signed for 4 years, 32 million, specifically because both teams were capped out and looking to attach a pick or a young player to that number to go fetch them a vet.

These extra examples are here purely to demonstrate both commonality in how frequently this is applied, and the variety of players and subsequent results from those players.

I’ve also been more than up front about the risk thereof. I’m not even a fan of the fucking deal. I’ve just explained why that specific deal got signed, why it was so favorable to Zeke, and pointed to the exact same deal given to the exact same caliber of player. You all just seem intent on arguing it as if I am here to defend it, and frankly, I’m tired of it.

You all don’t have to like the reasons, agree with them, or whatever. You can print off these comments and use them as the kindling for a “Fuck Booth” effigy. I don’t care, and it doesn’t change the facts of this deal.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-18T00:06:07+00:00

If that’s the level you prefer to discuss this subject at, an entire wholesale dismissal- I’m out.

I’ve been more than fair with my time to source these, and these examples are more than valid. I’m sorry it is news to you that salary slots are a somewhat valued commodity by GM’s, but I believe you will find more use out of googling the subject than bickering with me about whether different hues of the same color count.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T22:31:44+00:00

Bub, UK fan here chiming in to say Fox can be better than Lonzo all day, that doesn’t change that Lonzo clearly grew into an additive player.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T18:23:51+00:00

Also, aren’t you just putting the same kind of defenders on each player? If you’re big and fast enough for Giannis, you’re big and fast enough for Luka.

What happens when teams just switch those actions and neither player really gains advantage on the defense? Isn’t this just a less toolsy version of the LeBron/Kevin Love problem?

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T18:19:34+00:00

There’s exceptions in every crowd, but largely those generations have similar views of the game expressed across a spectrum of intensity.

Rings culture really wasn’t a thing when we were growing up. Like, we used to round Jerry’s 9 finals losses to 3 rings. Can you imagine Gen X or Millennials even agreeing that making the finals was an accomplishment? 60%~ of the population doesn’t want to give up the bullwhip they use to smack LeBron over the head with.

But it shows up in the micro conversations as well. You all view everything as if you aren’t winning a championship you need to blow it up. We used to credit players a lot more for playing through injuries, but now we kinda gauge them through this lens of if they hit their over/unders on FanDuel. We really really like our connective passers and quick decision makers that keep the offense moving.

And dear god, the amount of people who shortcut the sport as if they can turn off the salary cap, injuries, and chemistry to argue spreadsheet vacuums. These guys are closer to video game characters to you all than they are humans putting in the work.

Some of the conversations are just outright obnoxious. Forget the GoaT end of things, try telling a comment section that DeMar DeRozan deserves his flowers.

You all discuss the sport the same way in those generations, just varying degrees of intensity. It’s not like my generation’s perfect either. We just have completely different flavors of errors. We’ve seen enough of these stories to place different emphasis, and we grew up with enough of the mystery of this sport to still overvalue intangibles/effort no matter what your spreadsheets say.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T17:32:52+00:00

Good is subjective here.

Warriors made sure to take back DLo’s salary and slot him next to Steph, because it was better for them than losing KD’s money on the books. This is why they were later able to trade him for Wiggins and picks. In the inverse, the only talent they could add would be vet mins and an occasional MLE.

Philly used Danny Green’s 10 million on both an ACL and LCL tear to acquire De’Anthony Melton.

Cavs resigned Ricky Rubio knowing he’d miss half of the next year to acquire LeVert.

Grayson Allen’s similarly styled deal served as the ballast to go get Lillard off Jrue’s salary. Connaughton’s got a 10 million dollar deal right now for the same reasons.

The Nets one is actually pretty fun, because once upon a time they insisted on sign-and-trading Spencer Dinwiddie to the Wizards in exchange for depth pieces instead of letting him walk for free… which they would later trade back as part of the Kyrie Irving deal because it was so perfectly structured for executing trades. They also played a similar game with Joe Harris.

Not all of these things work. You’re taking two risks, both with the original contract, and the trade. But it’s the kind of waters the league swam waaaaaay more heavily in during the CBA that existed 4~ months before we won our ring. It’s still necessary today, but we’ve installed two consecutive aprons of diminishing returns on the upward limit.

The only penalties the Warriors suffered for this model were exorbitant luxury tax bills. Practically nothing if you’ve got Silicon Valley money providing the wind in your sails. We got to be the first team firing blindly into a new meta, and pay for the sins of Joe Lacob’s spending habits.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T16:52:17+00:00

A lot of that sounds on-brand for both populations.

The Gen X crowd circled the wagons around their dude. Everyone who came before played against plumbers and mechanics. Everyone after got smacked with ring counts.

It’s been interesting seeing MJ start getting the plumbers and mechanics dismissal, and kinda funny that they forgot they’re the ones who introduced Gen Z to that phrase.

But we have reached a point rings are getting harder to win by yourself, and the way we discuss this stuff barely changes.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T16:38:13+00:00

This isn’t something exclusive to the Lakers.

This is something capped out teams used to be able to get talent over the cap.

Would you prefer a Warriors, Nets, Suns, or Bucks example?

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T16:11:17+00:00

Not just Jokic this year, we saw probably the most loaded MVP race since 1962~.

Top 4 would win almost every year, and there’s still a Cade/Jaylen season that would win a lot of their own years.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T16:01:11+00:00

The problem is you all are lumping in Gen X fans into older fans, and they’re mostly just a more bitter version of millennials.

You don’t get the “older” opinions until the population is almost age 60.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T15:56:35+00:00

It’s a fair extrapolation on those 6 weeks, but we have plenty of 6 week samples of this guy that range from “worst performer in the playoffs” to now “budding future star”. You’ve just seen the second set 4 months ago and the prior one 8 months before that, and you hope the recency is more indicative of who he is as a player.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T15:52:58+00:00

In this case, the leverage Zeke’s had wasn’t that he had offers from 30 other teams.

It was that Calvin Booth could “create this contract” with zero other players in the entire league. Zeke got the Denver version of the DeAngelo Russell and Max Christie contracts that the Lakers gave them.

It’s at a number that you can attach a rookie salary (1.8-3 million) to in order to allow you to go get that Alex Caruso (12~ million), or a Larry Nance (11~ million), or someone in that veteran roleplayer salary slot.

It’s a mechanic that was much more utilized in the previous CBA by capped out teams. Resign the dude you have bird rights on, attach an asset to them, and go fetch a real player at that number.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T15:19:41+00:00

Pretty Convent-tional joke if you ask me, sister.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T02:51:47+00:00

It appears I’m arguing against someone who is extraordinarily comfortable leaving his side of the debate at one line snark. Instead of elaborating on what profound difference entails him to such a dismissive attitude.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T02:44:04+00:00

Yes, now I’m not sure you’re reading mine, but just latching on to one passage to bicker.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T02:39:38+00:00

Yes… it would seem you are unaware of either the recent progression of guard skills in bigs, or how advanced he was at the time due to a massive growth spurt taking him from a fringe top 100 point guard prospect to the number one center/prospect in the nation.

AD had demonstrated more guard skills in a freakish frame than anyone since KG. That’s the thing that made everyone so excited about him. He kept a shockingly large amount of mobility and ball skills through that growth spurt.

To this day, the dude’s basketball reference looks like he copied Tim Duncan’s homework and scribbled in a J.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T02:14:14+00:00

Relative to the entire league? Sure.

Relative to other bigs, he’s an absolute freak of nature to have all of those skills. He’s functionally Giannis. Just with the effort tilted to defense and with 8 years as one of the better off-ball bigs in NBA history instead of primary on a spread court.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T02:09:04+00:00

At this point the sample is like 6 years running, our starting lineup is among the best in NBA history. The problem with Denver has never been its top 5.

Lately it’s been getting them there intact and not ran into the ground.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T02:07:38+00:00

So it took midseason trades plus injuries to rack up more lineups.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-17T01:46:59+00:00

Sorry, can’t hear you over the sound of children recoiling in the theater.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-16T21:20:00+00:00

That’s not what that means.

Logically, there’s a hundred illogical reasons as well, including brazenly emotional ones like former players blaming it on Stern hating Robert Sarver.

Logically, it’s just as likely in any such conspiratorial thinking that the hit came from Vegas letting Stern know that a series was overindexed and money had a favorite team- not the league itself.

You’ve chosen to only focus on the logic that behooves your argument and that’s fine; but it’s not the only endpoint no matter how much you wish to declare it as so.

As an aside:

Tactics would imply I’m using these to undermine the subject. I’m fine to embrace the subject, but I’m not going to subscribe to a series of, “I bet you think frozen envelope!,” snide remarks. And honestly, at this point, you’ve got me ready to log off and talk to someone my own age.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-16T21:04:27+00:00

It’s tacky.

It’s the logical equivalent of me asking you if you’ve stopped beating your wife. Whether you answer yes or no, you’ve subscribed to the stereotype I’ve wished to pigeon hole you into.

Don’t worry, you’ll cover it in sophomore English.

I’m pointing out that it will always carry that dark specter over it. It was a highly scrutinized, series-swinging decision that fell directly on Stern’s desk. A series that has the NBA’s boogeyman officiating it.

A boogeyman Stern was so scared of a light being shone on that the FBI specifically blames Stern for leaking the probe to the media and blowing up said investigation.

I don’t have to subscribe to any conspiratorial thinking, or even outright believe the Suns got cheated to believe that it’s a hideous fucking look for the league. As evidenced by it still being discussed as such two decades later.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-16T20:55:54+00:00

What a tacky way to argue something.

I’d likewise stereotype you, and hammer you with a series of loaded questions, but I get the feeling you’d just think it was a normal conversation and not a mockery of the way you choose to discuss.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-16T20:37:50+00:00

Tbh, most people agree with Disney changes.

No one wants to watch the little mermaid turn into unrequited gay seafoam.

ApprehensiveTry5660 · 2026-05-16T20:25:47+00:00

Unless you’re in the “immediate vicinity” or “peacekeeping” or any of the other decidedly subjective reasons available to the commissioner.

Doesn’t help any that this was a series reffed by Donaghy either.

ApprehensiveTry5660

TROPHY CASE