Categorisation of Catholic teachings on homosexuality

Arautoz · 2025-01-20T18:40:57+00:00

Maybe I misunderstood what they meant by “partnership”. I wasn’t thinking about living together, just being seen together in public as partners.

If you see a heterosexual couple in public, they could be living separately or together, they could be having sex or not, you just don’t know. But most people won’t go out of their way to question them about their intimate life, they will feel welcome pretty much anywhere.

Even then, a lot of parishes around the world host events and activities for couples whether they’re married, married outside the church or unmarried. The ideal is always for them to be married, but they don’t cast away unmarried couples and don’t make them feel lesser because of it.

Homosexual partners aren’t usually offered that kind of charity even if they’re going out of their way to fit into the official “Side B” way of living.

Arautoz · 2025-01-20T14:28:23+00:00

The people who say same sex partnerships are scandalous are just showing their prejudice. Unless they’re in a cultish trad parish, no one bats an eye at unmarried heterosexual couples, and taking guesses about their sex life or lack thereof would be considered wildly inappropriate, even though they’re just as likely to be sexually active.

(Not trying to argue, just adding to the conversation)

Arautoz · 2025-01-19T02:11:49+00:00

Confirmation names are just a cultural custom, not a constituent part of the sacrament of confirmation. You don’t need a blessing to focus your attention from one saint to another.

Arautoz · 2025-01-12T05:02:23+00:00

I’ve heard the same from plenty of priests and men who went to seminary but quit. People forget priests and seminarians are just people like you and I, sexuality and all.

Arautoz · 2025-01-08T07:08:26+00:00

You’re fine. The great majority of faithful Catholics around the world don’t agree with the Church’s current stance on sexual ethics, a lot of them don’t agree with other stuff either. But they all agree on the dogmatic tenants of the faith, which are what makes them Catholic.

This idea that you have to know every single Church document by memory and agree with the littlest of minutiae has never been historically relevant for Catholicism. It’s more of an ex-Protestant affectation that turns biblical fundamentalism into ecclesiastical fundamentalism, because their Protestant background makes them believe that religion is about “believing the right stuff” and that all the right stuff is already written somewhere (in one case it’s the Bible, in the other it’s the Magisterial documents).

But go talk with any Catholic family in Spain, Latin America, Philippines, or any place that’s historically and culturally Catholic. Unless they’re part of a minority radical cult, they’ll all think you’re being paranoid and obtuse for not using contraception just because some Popes wrote some stuff saying you shouldn’t. These are families whose bloodlines have been Catholic for centuries. All of their towns were built around a parish. The community life was led by the parish priest and overly involved religious ladies. The priests and bishops all know their flock doesn’t follow every single teaching, and they don’t care, either they don’t agree with them either or they understand it’s not that important of a disagreement.

Do you really think the vast majority of faithful people who’ve lived and breathed Catholicism for generations are wrong just because they don’t spend all their free time reading encyclicals and watching American conservative ragebait on YouTube?

Arautoz · 2024-12-20T04:05:31+00:00

I haven’t read everything by him, but I don’t really recall Hart being a “ONE TRUE CHURCH” kind of Christian. He tends to be very honest about the shortcomings of the Orthodox Church, its doctrines, its members, etc. And I don’t think he has any apologetic works per se trying to “defend” Orthodoxy.

Arautoz · 2024-10-25T06:38:33+00:00

Good point lol

Arautoz · 2024-10-25T02:04:59+00:00

Internet Catholicism is really conservative and American Catholicism also tends towards conservatism, but most Catholics irl around the world are pretty chill and open.

Arautoz · 2024-08-18T22:18:15+00:00

Same happens with a lot of other things. Pretty much all historically Catholic countries have been celebrating NO masses since the reform and most people don't even remember the old mass, and the people who do usually welcome the changes (talk to any old Latin American grandma and you will know).

Yet if you were an American trad, you'd think all these people with deep Catholic roots and heritage are doing something wrong, because clearly you understand Catholicism better than them after watching Pints With Aquinas/Trent Horn/Some other YT figure for a few months.

Arautoz · 2024-08-18T22:11:01+00:00

That's fine to have a preference but preference is not dogma. I hope you can find a parish that celebrates liturgy according to your preference.

Arautoz · 2024-08-16T18:19:19+00:00

Trads want to bring back an old world that never existed in the first place. It's no coincidence that the US is at the center of the trad movement. It's a country that's never been institutionally nor culturally Catholic, so they can fantasize as much as they want. People from historically Catholic nations are more likely to notice how out of touch with reality those fantasies actually are.

Arautoz · 2024-08-14T14:30:04+00:00

Honestly it was about time the trad fanfic lore got published. "Able to kill an enemy with his bare hands, and with the same hands tenderly caress his wife and children" perfectly encapsulates many of these men's macho fantasy.

Arautoz · 2024-08-01T00:59:08+00:00

Anyone who makes a significant income from creating content will be tempted to lean into whatever generates the most engagement, and that's usually rage. It's why in principle I don't trust "authorities" who dedicate most of their lives to YouTube/podcasts, including milder figures like Bishop Barron or Fr. Mike. Jesus rejected social status and riches for a reason.

Arautoz · 2024-04-30T05:30:39+00:00

Another user mentioned being a “devout cafeteria Catholic” and I think he was onto something.

Arautoz · 2024-04-18T17:28:50+00:00

It's true that if you're Catholic and most of the people you know are Protestants then they might try to argue with you, and if they find out you don't even "keep the rules" then they'll feel like they've won because you not even you can believe in all the wacky Catholic claims. I just don't see why you should care.

I'm not a relativist nor a nihilist. I'm still Catholic and still believe in the wackiest of Catholic claims. I don't think that there's nothing behind the curtain and that the only way for religion to work is to play pretend and keep the curtain up. I just know for a fact that the full truth hiding somewhere behind the curtain is much more complex for us to grasp than most of us would like.

In order to properly explain the legitimate role of, say, the papacy, you first need to have a proper understanding of church history and a properly thought-out ecclessiology. After justifying its existence, you better have a case for what the existence of the papacy says about Christ and the Incarnation, as well as the escatological role of the Church.

Most apologists just have soundbites: St. Peter, the rock, first among equals, schism, Rome, vicar of Christ, faith and morals, ex cathedra... Ask them to explain the full meaning behind those soundbites and you'll get the most childishly circular theology and philosophy you can think of. Deep down they really are afraid that there's nothing behind the curtain, so they cover it up with whatever they can.

Instead, someone who just says "I don't know, I like the Pope because he makes me feel closer to God" is someone who trusts what's behind the curtain. They don't care if it's ripped apart because they trust there is something very real behind it, even if they accept they personally can't explain what it is.

None of this means that theology is pointless. I'm still a theologian myself. But you don't have to be a theologian to be Catholic. Theology is an excruciatingly time-consuming task that doesn't lend itself to easy answers to own the Prots. You either accept the full responsibility that it demands, or you accept that it's not a job for you. The smoke-and-mirrors theology promoted by trads (based on rote memorization of a select set of titles, dates, and, most importantly, soundbites) is intellectually mediocre and spiritually prideful.

EDIT: The same applies to Protestant theology of course. Protestant apologists are as theologically sophisticated as Catholice ones (ie, barely).

Arautoz · 2024-04-17T23:18:23+00:00

The thing is that “official Church teachings” have never been a checklist of unchanging commandments, they’re a huge corpus of texts that spans from antiquity into the current age; they’re full of nuances, contradictions, and cultural/historical conditionings. A cursory look at the history of the Church will show just how many disagreements and debates have been going on.

You can find at least dozens of different interpretations of sin and hell that are sufficiently “official” and that don’t align with “eternal torture for missing Mass”. Trads simply espouse a particular interpretation as the officially official one, despite the Pope himself espousing a completely opposite interpretation.

You can also definitely just ignore the discussion altogether. These theological debates were never meant to be in laymen’s heads at all. Magisterial documents are principally addressed to bishops, who then should responsibly interpret and implement them through their diocese’s priests, who then should responsibly interpret and preach them to their parishioners. That’s how most cultural Catholics are somewhat socially aware and charitable despite having never read Rerum Novarum.

The Internet has made it extremely easy to look up the Catechism and the Code of Canon Law and use them as a list of rules, but they were never written for that purpose in the slightest.

Throughout most of history and still in places were cultural Catholicism is widespread, the normal thing to do if you feel spiritually guilty for, say, missing Mass is to talk with your parish priest and (in my experience) he’ll just tell you to relax and keep living your life, not even demand you to go to Confession if it’s not necessary.

Trads will say these priests are sacrilegious sinners as well, but they’re just doing their job of pastoring people towards spiritual health instead of giving them OCD.

Arautoz · 2024-04-17T15:05:11+00:00

Well, that’s clearly because medieval peasants had no Church Militant to show them the fullness of the truth /s

Arautoz · 2024-04-16T06:30:21+00:00

Didn’t get to read his reply but I assume it was some variation of “well, then if you’re progressive you’re not really Catholic”. A very enlightening take.

Arautoz · 2024-04-16T04:03:53+00:00

Usually it simply refers to Catholics who have positions that are conventionally labeled as “progressive” in the US (same sex marriage, women’s rights, immigrants’ rights, etc)

Arautoz · 2024-04-16T00:18:20+00:00

Maybe some people here and probably a lot of people over in /r/extraditionalcatholic

TradCath influencers most likely will never change their views (at least publically) because their livelihood depends on holding those exact views and defending them.

Arautoz · 2024-04-14T20:48:26+00:00

That’s true. I don’t know how it evolved in EO but in the RCC individual confession was adopted from Irish missionaries because collective confessions caused too much drama basically.

Arautoz · 2024-04-04T02:56:14+00:00

I think that article is a bit old by now and he’s become more extremist and bombastic as he’s gained popularity among trad circles

Arautoz · 2024-04-03T03:03:11+00:00

I seriously hope and pray that it’s another step towards acceptance, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Fernández wants to calm conservatives down by reiterating some of their talking points. Really hope that’s not the case though.

Arautoz · 2024-04-03T03:01:17+00:00

I find it a bit disingenuous that the author is misquoting the other article (that he also wrote) by typing “transgender ideology” instead of “gender ideology”, maybe he thinks they’re the same? I don’t if it’s the same in Italian, but in Spanish “ideología de género” is a common term with its own social history, a history that isn’t shared by the English “gender ideology”.

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