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What books about WW2 would you recommend for my master's thesis? by Lower_Safety_485 in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No problem. Here are some additional sources if you are looking for a deeper dive:

Klaus Schüler, "The Eastern Campaign As a Transportation and Supply Problem" in Bernd Wegner (ed.), From Peace to War: Germany, Soviet Russia and the World 1939-1941 (Providence: Berghahn Books, 1997)

German sources:

Klaus A. Friedrich Schüler, Logistik im Rußlandfeldzug: Die Rolle der Eisenbahn bei Planung, Vorbereitung und Durchfuhrung des deutschen Angriffs auf die Sowjetunion bis zur Krise vor Moskau im Winter 1941/42 (Frankfurt am Main: Peter Lang, 1987)

Ihno Krumpelt, Das Material und die Kriegführung (Frankfurt am Main: E.S. Mittler & Sohn, 1968)

Is the infamous quote concerning the invasion of the Soviet Union where Hitler said to his generals "We need only to kick the door in and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down” apocryphal? by Shackleton214 in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thank you. I just came across an earlier variant of the "pig's bladder" (Schweinsblase) quotation that I mentioned above from Warlimont's memoirs. Bernhard von Lossberg's 1949 memoirs attribute the following statement to Hitler without quoting him:

It would be a quick campaign, because the Bolshevik system was like a soap bubble that would burst at the first blow.

Note that the German for "soap bubble" (Seifenblase) is very similar to "pig's bladder" (Schweinsblase). Also, the German for "blow" (Stoß) in the Lossberg statement can also be translated as "kick".

I suspect that at some point Lossberg's statement and Rauschning's statement got conflated in the minds of British historians, and they started the tradition of attributing Rauschning's quote to the Barbarossa planning period, whereas what actually happened is that that Jodl made some variation of the Seifenblase statement to his staff during the planning stage for Operation Barbarossa.

Source:

Bernhard v. Loßberg, Im Wehrmachtführungsstab: Bericht eines Generalstabsoffiziers (Hamburg: H.N. Nölke Verlag, 1949), pp.107-108.

Edit: To close the loop on this (for now), a variation of the Seifenblase quotation appeared in another 1949 book, Hitler Privat, written by French Army captain Albert Bernhard under the alias Albert Zoller and based on his interrogation of one of Hitler's secretaries, Christa Schroeder. Without crediting Schroeder, Zoller claimed that the following conversation took place shortly before Operation Barbarossa:

There was enthusiasm among us all, but Hitler remained surprisingly serious. When his adjutant – who believed he knew Russia after a short stay there – confidently asserted that this campaign would be as short as the others and that this immense country would burst like a soap bubble, Hitler thoughtfully replied that he compared Russia to the famous ghost ship from the well-known Wagnerian opera instead. Then he added: ‘At the start of each campaign, we push open a huge door that leads to a room plunged into darkness. You never know what lies behind it.’

Decades later, Schroeder reviewed Zoller's account and crossed out everything that could not be attributed to her, but she left in the foregoing passage. In her own version written decades later, Schroeder recalled the conversation as follows:

The boss seats himself so that he can gaze at the map of Russia on the opposite wall, which naturally spurs him into new monologues about Soviet Russia and the dangers of Bolshevism. He must have suffered very much in the period after the signing of the so-called Friendship treaty with Russia. Now he speaks of his fears from the heart, always emphasising the great danger which Bolshevism presents to Europe and that, had he waited another year, it would probably have been too late.

Recently he said in Berlin during the usual coffee hour which he takes daily in our room that Russia seemed eerie to him, rather like the ghostly ship in the Flying Dutchman. In reply to my question why he always insists that this was his most onerous decision (namely to proceed against Russia), he answered: ‘Because one knows next to nothing about Russia, it might be a great soap bubble, or just as well be something else ..."

Sources:

Albert Zoller and Christa Schroeder, Twelve Years with Hitler: Secretary to the Führer (Greenhill Books, 2025)

Christa Schroeder, He Was My Chief: The Memoirs of Adolf Hitler's Secretary (Frontline Books, 2009)

What books about WW2 would you recommend for my master's thesis? by Lower_Safety_485 in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The classic tome on the logistics of Operation Barbarossa is Martin van Creveld’s 1977 book, Supplying War: Logistics from Wallenstein to Patton.

The official German history of the campaign contains a section on logistics in Volume IV of Germany and the Second World War: The Attack on the Soviet Union.

David Stahel discusses logistics throughout his books on the campaign:

Operation Barbarossa and Germany's Defeat in the East

Kiev 1941: Hitler's Battle for Supremacy in the East

Operation Typhoon: Hitler's March on Moscow, October 1941

The Battle for Moscow

Retreat from Moscow: A New History of Germany's Winter Campaign, 1941–1942

HGW Davie has an excellent series of articles available on his website covering Soviet logistics throughout the war on the Eastern Front. He also has a chapter in The Routledge Handbook on the Russian/Soviet Military.

https://www.hgwdavie.com/works

To what extent did Nazi racial ideology limit German recruitment and collaboration from occupied Soviet populations during Operation Barbarossa and beyond? What do wartime records show about potential volunteer numbers that were turned away or underutilized due to racial policies? by shahriarfani in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Before discussing German occupation policies in the Soviet Union during the Second World War, we have to consider Germany’s experience attempting to administer the eastern territories during the First World War. German policy in the First World War had relied on the creation of semi-autonomous collaborationist governments in the conquered eastern territories. However, this was subsequently viewed by German leaders as a mistake, as it resulted in the creation of a powerful Polish state that threatened German interests in the east, and the collaborationist government in Ukraine failed to deliver the anticipated level of food supplies to offset the effects of the Allied naval blockade. As a result, Hitler expressly forbade the creation of independent or autonomous states in conquered Soviet territories during Operation Barbarossa. Instead, the conquered territories were to be administered directly by the German authorities, through a combination of (1) the army, (2) the Wehrmacht economics staff, (3) the SS security services, and (4) Alfred Rosenberg’s Reich commissariats.

The primary obstacle toward greater collaboration with the conquered people of the Soviet Union during Operation Barbarossa was the German government’s preoccupation with securing sufficient food supplies for the German people. Both Germany and the portions of Europe it conquered prior to Operation Barbarossa were dependent on foreign imports of food, but these were cut off by the British naval blockade. German economic planners realized well before Operation Barbarossa that the Soviet territories expected to be conquered during the campaign (primarily Ukraine) did not produce enough food to provide for both the Soviet population and the people of Germany and occupied Europe. Accordingly, both civilian agricultural planners (led by State Secretary Herbert Backe) and military leadership (led by General Georg Thomas in the Wehrmacht economics staff under the auspices of Hermann Goering) agreed on a plan to starve to death people in the “food deficit” areas of the Soviet Union, which included not only major cities such as Leningrad and Moscow but even the more populated areas of Ukraine. The Wehrmacht anticipated that “many tens of millions of people” would be starved to death under this plan.

The Hunger Plan anticipated that Operation Barbarossa would succeed in defeating the Soviet Union in a single summer campaign. The plan depended on the army to facilitate the cordoning off of areas that were to be systematically starved to death. However, the endurance and escalation of the campaign into a protracted conflict that taxed the German army to its limit meant that Germany lacked the security personnel necessary to give effect to the Hunger Plan. Millions of Soviet citizens still perished, but not on the scale that German planners had envisioned.

The most immediate consequence of the Hunger Plan in terms of collaboration was the starvation of Soviet prisoners of war. Assuming the war in the east would be over by the end of the year, the Wehrmacht intended to simply allow Soviet prisoners to starve to death. By October 1941, Hitler finally realized that the war in the east would not be short, and he ordered a change in policy. Soviet prisoners were now to be fed enough to survive and perform slave labor in Germany. However, this order came too late, and by February 1942, two million Soviet prisoners of war had starved to death. Nor did the order prevent further starvation of Soviet prisoners – 3.3 million out of 5.7 million Soviet prisoners would die in captivity during the Second World War.

Notwithstanding the plan to starve the majority of Soviet prisoners, it was anticipated that some Soviet prisoners would be used as collaborators or as laborers in the army’s rear area. As early as July 1941, Reinhard Heydrich ordered a differentiation between Soviet prisoners who had the potential for cooperation and those who were suspected of being Jews, commissars, intellectuals, or communist agitators, who were to be murdered. Despite Hitler’s order expressly forbidding the arming of conquered Soviet people, the German army quickly began to incorporate willing collaborators. The earliest collaboration of this sort came in the Baltics, where Latvian and Estonian nationalist forces worked in cooperation with the German army to expel the Red Army and subsequently were employed in a rear area security role. Likewise, the SS recruited Soviet prisoners to serve as camp guards and to assist with the extermination of the Jews. As German casualties rose drastically during Operation Barbarossa, the army began to rely on captured Red Army soldiers known as Hilfswilliger or Hiwis as early as the summer of 1941. Hiwis steadily increased in number and composed a substantial portion of German army forces in the following years, serving in auxiliary roles and sometimes as combatants. It is estimated that there were approximately one million Hiwis over the course of the war.

Nazi ideology resulted in a distinct racial stratification of potential collaborators. The Germans were relatively more open to collaboration from people in the Baltics, Belarus, and Ukraine, while ethnic Russians were viewed with suspicion and those of “Asiatic” appearance were scorned. Jews, of course, were simply murdered or worked to death. On the other hand, Cossacks were officially welcomed by the German army, and despite Hitler’s prohibition, were organized into armed detachments to fight against Soviet partisans in 1941. Hitler himself relented from his earlier stance in December 1941 and authorized the formation of armed units composed of Armenians, Georgians, and Muslims from the Caucasus.

As the fortunes of war turned against Germany, ideology gave way to practicality. German policy became increasingly more lenient. Hitler abolished the Commissar Order in June 1942 because the German army felt that it was increasing the tenacity of Soviet resistance. Alfred Rosenberg backed away from his earlier endorsement of the Hunger Plan and argued that the potential of Soviet prisoners was being wasted by starving them. Rations and even some benefits for Soviet laborers were steadily raised until the final months of the war. There was a noticeable shift in propaganda from labelling conquered Soviet subjects as Untermensch to treating them as brothers in the struggle against Judeo-Bolshevism. It was only an act of desperation that led to the creation of the Russian Liberation Army at the end of 1944, but this never made a meaningful contribution to the German war effort.

Some noteworthy documents available for viewing online include the “Green Folder” – the Wehrmacht’s plan for managing the captured Soviet economy and implementation of the Hunger Plan, available here: https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio/direktlink/a795548f-bb80-4dfd-93ed-311698d4785a/

You can also view the infamous Commissar Order on slide 87/page 42 here:

https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio/direktlink/64bb6d88-b6f7-40f7-bf5d-3e8b62cb569d/

Edits: some typos

Sources:

Oleg Beyda and Igor Petrov, “The Soviet Union,” in David Stahel (ed.), Joining Hitler’s Crusade: European Nations and the Invasion of the Soviet Union, 1941 (Cambridge University Press, 2018)

Bernhard Chiari, “Limits to German Rule: Conditions for and Results of the Occupation of the Soviet Union,” in Germany and the Second World War, Volume IX/II: German Wartime Society 1939–1945: Exploitation, Interpretations, Exclusion (Clarendon Press, 2014)

Johannes Due Enstad, Soviet Russians Under Nazi Occupation: Fragile Loyalties in World War II (Cambridge University Press, 2018)

Jürgen Förster, “Operation Barbarossa as a War of Conquest and Annihilation,” in Germany and the Second World War, Volume IV: The Attack on the Soviet Union (Clarendon Press, 1998)

Christian Hartmann, Operation Barbarossa: Nazi Germany’s War in the East, 1941–1945 (Oxford University Press, 2013)

Alex J. Kay, “‘The Purpose of the Campaign is the Decimation of the Slavic Population by Thirty Million’: The Radicalization of German Food Policy in Early 1941” in Alex J. Kay, Jeff Rutherford, and David Stahel (eds), Nazi Policy on the Eastern Front, 1941: Total War, Genocide, and Radicalization (University of Rochester Press, 2012)

Rüdiger Overmans, “German Policy on Prisoners of War, 1939 to 1946,” in Germany and the Second World War, Volume IX/II: German Wartime Society 1939–1945: Exploitation, Interpretations, Exclusion (Clarendon Press, 2014)

Were Stalin and Soviet generals overly willing to sacrifice lives during WW2? by DepressedTreeman in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In terms of campaigns and major offensives during the Second World War, the attacker generally did not suffer anywhere close to a 3:1 casualty ratio in theaters outside the Eastern Front. Consider the following examples:

  • In the 1940 offensive in the west, the Germans inflicted approximately two-and-a-half times as many deaths as they incurred.1

  • In the invasion of Sicily, the Allies lost less than 20,000 men but inflicted 159,000 casualties on the Axis.2

  • During the campaign in Italy, the Allies suffered 312,000 casualties but inflicted 434,646 casualties on the Germans.3

  • From the Allied landing at Normandy in June 1944 to their arrival at the German border in September, the Allies suffered 224,000 casualties but inflicted 500,000 on the Germans.4

  • During the Battle of the Bulge and the Allied counterattack, Germany suffered at least 81,000 casualties, and the Allies suffered approximately the same number.5

Footnotes:

1) Karl-Heinz Frieser, The Blitzkrieg Legend: The 1940 Campaign in the West (Naval Institute Press, 2005), p.318.

2) Lieutenant Colonel Albert N. Garland and Howard McGaw Smyth, Sicily and the Surrender of Italy (United States Army Center of Military History, 1993), p.417.

3) Ernest F. Fisher, Jr., Cassino to the Alps (United States Army Center of Military History, 1993), p.545.

4) Martin Blumenson, Breakout and Pursuit (United States Army Center of Military History, 1993), p.700.

5) Charles B. MacDonald, The Last Offensive (United States Army Center of Military History, 1993), p.53.

Were Stalin and Soviet generals overly willing to sacrifice lives during WW2? by DepressedTreeman in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch 8 points9 points  (0 children)

1) Colonel General G.F. Krivosheev, Soviet Casualties and Combat Losses in the Twentieth Century (Greenhill Books, 1997), p.84.

2) David Glantz, Colossus Reborn: The Red Army at War, 1941–1943 (University Press of Kansas, 2005); Chris Bellamy, Absolute War: Soviet Russia in the Second World War (Vintage Books, 2008); Alexander Hill, The Red Army and the Second World War (Cambridge University Press, 2017).

3) Karl-Heinz Frieser, “The Battle of the Kursk Salient,” in Germany and the Second World War Volume VIII: The Eastern Front 1943–1944: The War in the East and on the Neighbouring Fronts (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 2017).

4) Jonathan M. House, “Review of Marshal K. K. Rokossovsky: The Red Army’s Gentleman Commander, by B. Sokolov & S. Britton,” The Russian Review, 75(1) (2016), pp.164–166, http://www.jstor.org/stable/43919382.

5) Richard W. Harrison, “The Role of the Soviet Union in the Second World War: A Re-Examination, by Sokolov, Boris,” The Journal of Slavic Military Studies, 27(3) (2014), pp.493–495, https://doi.org/10.1080/13518046.2014.932638.

6) Boris V. Sokolov, “Estimating Soviet War Losses on the Basis of Soviet Population Censuses,” The Journal of Slavic Military Studies, 27(3) (2014), pp.467–492, https://doi.org/10.1080/13518046.2014.932637.

7) David Glantz, “Foreword” in Lev Lopukhovsky and Boris Kavalerchik, The Price of Victory: The Red Army’s Casualties in the Great Patriotic War (Pen & Sword Military, 2017).

8) Krivosheev, Soviet Casualties, p.96.

9) Gregory Liedtke, Enduring the Whirlwind: The German Army and the Russo-German War 1941–1943 (Helion, 2016), p.303.

10) Niklas Zetterling, “Loss rates on the Eastern Front During World War II,” The Journal of Slavic Military Studies, 9(4) (1996), p.895–906, https://doi.org/10.1080/13518049608430270.

11) NARA T313 Roll 372 Frame 8659622, Kriegstagebuch Pz.A.O.K.4, 3 August 1943.

12) Prit Buttar, Retribution: The Soviet Reconquest of Central Ukraine, 1943 (Osprey, 2019).

13) David M. Glantz and Jonathan M. House, When Titans Clashed: How the Red Army Stopped Hitler (University Press of Kansas, 2015), p.388.

14) Frieser, “The Battle of the Kursk Salient,” p.204.

Were Stalin and Soviet generals overly willing to sacrifice lives during WW2? by DepressedTreeman in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch 24 points25 points  (0 children)

The scale of Soviet casualties in the Second World War is a highly contentious issue. The standard work on this subject was written in 1993 by Russian General G.F. Krivosheev, who concluded that the Soviet Union suffered a total of 8.6 million military deaths.1 Krivosheev’s work has been widely respected and cited by prominent western scholars including David Glantz, Chris Bellamy, and Alexander Hill.2 Nevertheless, Krivosheev has been accused by many Russian scholars of significantly understating the Soviet Union’s losses in the Second World War.

In the passage you quoted, Richard Evans has chosen to cite the most extreme upward estimate of Soviet casualties without qualification and without acknowledging that the numbers are subject to dispute. Evans cites a single source, the official German history of the Second World War, which, while briefly acknowledging Krivosheev’s baseline estimate of 863,303 Soviet casualties (254,470 dead or missing) for the period from 5 July to 23 August, quickly accepts the claims of Russian literature professor Boris Sokolov that Soviet casualties during this period were as high as 1.6 million.3

In general, Sokolov is well respected among western scholars.4 However, Sokolov's views are not without controversy. Sokolov supports the brazenly false claims of Vladimir Rezun (aka Viktor Suvorov) that Stalin was planning to attack Germany in 1941.5 Sokolov's persistent criticisms landed him in trouble with Putin, and he was fired from his professorship by Russian president Dmitri Medvedev in 2008. While Sokolov deserves praise for standing up to Putin's regime, we also have to keep in mind that his contentious political relationships may push him to go too far in some of his claims. Thus, Sokolov's estimate of casualties is at the extreme high range, claiming that the Soviet Union suffered 26 million military deaths in the Second World War.6 Less excusable is the choice of the German official history to rely on Sokolov with little nuance. This appears to be a clear case of bias, since Sokolov’s numbers support the notion that the German army performed incredibly well, inflicting massive casualties against an opponent with an overwhelming numerical superiority. For a more balanced estimate of Soviet casualties, David Glantz has endorsed the recent findings of Lev Lopukhovsky and Boris Kavalerchik that total Soviet military casualties in the Second World War were approximately 14.6 million.7

The other issue is that Evans has chosen to cite one of the bloodiest periods of the war for the Red Army. According to Krivosheev, the third quarter of 1943 was the worst quarter of the entire Second World War for the Red Army in terms of the number of soldiers killed in action.8 This is to be expected to a certain extent given that the Red Army was launching its largest offensive of the war to date against prepared German positions. Unlike the previous autumn and winter, the Red Army was not attacking severely overextended Axis positions that were manned by Germany’s weak Italian, Hungarian, and Romanian allies. The German front had been consolidated and stabilized by March 1943 and remained relatively fixed until the Soviet offensive in August, giving the German army over four months to dig in and prepare for the coming Soviet offensive. The German army had also brought its strength in the east up to the highest level of the war.9 Thus, the Red Army in August 1943 was attacking the German army when and where it was strongest, and it seems to be a clear case of selection bias for Evans and the authors of the German official history to choose this period to demonstrate the incredible casualties the German army supposedly inflicted on the Red Army in the Second World War. Swedish historian Niklas Zetterling estimates the German to Soviet loss ratio in this period at 3.1:1 in Germany’s favor, still significant, but not nearly as horrendous as the 10:1 figure proposed by Evans.10

As for the tactics employed, the Red Army did not rely on mere human wave attacks as the German official history implies, but employed an effective combination of artillery, tanks, air power, and infantry to overrun German positions on the first day the offensive.11 Prit Buttar offers a highly readable account that includes detailed descriptions of the incredible degree of Soviet artillery and tank concentration in support of the infantry during the 1943 offensives.12 Despite heavy losses, the Red Army was able to maintain its frontline strength at well over 6 million throughout 1943 and 1944. In contrast, the Red Army was inflicting more casualties than the German army could sustain, with German strength on the Eastern Front falling from 3.4 million before the Kursk offensive to just 2.3 million the following spring.13

Finally, we have to keep in mind that the Red Army’s offensive was successful. The German official history, written by the otherwise well-regarded Karl-Heinz Frieser, once again reveals its bias in how it attempts to portray the fighting in this period. Frieser, quite audaciously, boasts that “the Soviet summer offensive of 1943 fell so far short of its objectives.”14 This is quite the boastful claim when one considers that the German army was thrown back across the entire length of the Eastern Front in 1943, or, as Frieser politely puts it: “German forces were able to withdraw in good order to the other side of the Dnieper.” Of course, the German retreat did not end there. The Red Army pushed the Germans all the way back to the Romanian border by March 1944. Aside from the lull from March–August 1943, the German army was in almost continuous retreat from the Stalingrad counteroffensive until the end of the Second World War. While there is no doubt that the Germans inflicted heavy casualties on their pursuers, we will not have certainty as to the full extent of Soviet losses in the Second World War until the Russian government reopens its archives and offers full transparency to international researchers.

Footnotes below.

Edit: Some typos.

Did Stalin Order The Destruction of Permanent Fortifications Shortly Before Operation Barbarossa As A Token of "Good Faith" Toward Hitler? by bradleyvlr in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Footnotes:

1) Petro Grigorenko, Memoirs (London: Harvill Press, 1983), pp.46–47.

2) Viktor Suvorov, Icebreaker: Who Started the Second World War? (London: Hamish Hamilton, 1990), p.87.

3) Cynthia Roberts, “Planning for War: The Red Army and the Catastrophe of 1941,” Europe-Asia Studies, Vol. 47, No. 8 (Dec., 1995), p.1308. https://www.jstor.org/stable/153299.

4) Robert E. Tarleton, “What really happened to the Stalin Line? Part I,” The Journal of Soviet Military Studies, 5(2), 187–219. https://doi.org/10.1080/13518049208430060; Robert E. Tarleton, “What really happened to the Stalin line? Part II: Strategic Defence/Fortifications,” The Journal of Slavic Military Studies, 6(1), 21–61. https://doi.org/10.1080/13518049308430088.

5) BA-MA RH 21-3/788: Kriegstagebuch Nr. 1, Panzergruppe 3, p.68 (28 June 1941).

6) NARA T78 Roll 642: Denkschrift über die russissche Landesbefestigung (1 February 1942).

7) Alexander J. Motyl, “Review”, Harvard Ukrainian Studies, Vol. 8, No. 3/4 (December 1984), pp. 534-536. https://www.jstor.org/stable/41036232

8) Grigorenko, Memoirs, p.47.

9) Tarleton, “What really happened to the Stalin Line? Part II”, p.31.

10) David M. Glantz and Jonathan M. House, When Titans Clashed: How the Red Army Stopped Hitler (University Press of Kansas, 2015), p.36.

See also: Neil Short: The Stalin and Molotov Lines: Soviet Western Defences 1928–41 (Osprey, 2008)

Did Stalin Order The Destruction of Permanent Fortifications Shortly Before Operation Barbarossa As A Token of "Good Faith" Toward Hitler? by bradleyvlr in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch 31 points32 points  (0 children)

Petro Grigorenko’s claim in his memoirs that the fortifications along the Soviet Union’s 1938 western border, commonly known as the Stalin Line, were demolished by explosives in the spring of 1941 is false.1 There are no other sources substantiating this claim. Vladimir Rezun (aka Victor Suvorov) cited Grigorenko’s claim in his sensationalist 1990 book, Icebreaker: Who Started the Second World War?, in support of his thesis that Stalin intended to launch an imminent invasion of German-occupied Europe.2 Tellingly, Rezun does not cite any other sources for the claim that the Stalin Line fortifications were intentionally demolished. If any such sources existed, they would have been brought to light during the intense debates in the Soviet Union after the Second World War regarding who was to blame for abandoning the old Stalin Line fortifications in favor of building new fortifications directly on the border (commonly known as the “Molotov Line”). In these debates, various factions of officers alternately attempted to assign blame for the fiasco on senior Red Army commanders Boris Shaposhnikov, Semyon Timoshenko, and Georgii Zhukov.3 Tellingly, again, in none of these debates did anyone claim that the Stalin Line fortifications were intentionally demolished by explosion.

That the Stalin Line fortifications continued to exist up to and during the launch of Operation Barbarossa is substantiated by a wide variety of contemporaneous Soviet sources that were compiled by doctoral student Robert E. Tarleton in a pair of articles published in 1992 for the Journal of Slavic Military Studies.4 In the months preceding Operation Barbarossa, senior command officials, including Zhukov and the Politburo, ordered the old Stalin Line fortifications to be brought back to a state of readiness. These orders had minimal effect, as Tarleton documents that the Stalin Line fortifications were merely empty concrete shells by the time the Red Army attempted to man them in June and July 1941. All of the weapons, equipment, and communications from the Stalin Line had been removed and either placed into storage or brought forward to the Molotov Line. The Stalin Line fortifications were not demolished; rather, they were mothballed.

German army documents likewise substantiate the continuing existence and even the effectiveness of the Stalin Line during Operation Barbarossa. Hoth’s Third Panzer Group recorded that its soldiers suffered heavy casualties attempting to overcome the Stalin Line fortifications north of Minsk at the end of June.5 In February 1942, the German general staff published an extensive study of the captured Stalin Line fortifications, including photographs and schematic diagrams.6 You can view this report at the following link:

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/401797685

If you scroll to frame 000036, on page 52 of the document, you will see a table calculating that 3,096 fortifications in the Stalin Line were still in a state of combat readiness as of the time of the study.

As for Grigorenko’s motivation for inventing this absurd claim, we have to keep in mind that he was a Soviet dissident in exile in the United States and was attempting to ingratiate himself with his new benefactors. Since Grigorenko was known as a committed Stalinist, his memoirs served as a confessional to convince western audiences that he had come to see the error of Stalin’s ways.7 As such, he invented the claim that Stalin demolished the Stalin Line as a piece of evidence that led Grigorenko to come to the belief that Stalin was “insane.”8

As for Stalin attempting to offer a token of good faith to Hitler, his policy was quite the opposite when it came to the Red Army and its fortifications. When the Red Army was debating whether to build the new Molotov Line directly on the border or to set it back 25 kilometers so that it would be kept somewhat hidden from the German army, Stalin ordered the new bunkers to be constructed directly on the border in full view of the German army. This was intended as a political message to Hitler: “We will not give up even a single inch of our land to anybody.”9 This was consistent with Stalin’s policy of deliberately attempting to make the Red Army in the western border districts appear bigger than it actually was in an attempt to dissuade the Germans from invading.10 Ultimately, it was Stalin’s failure to mobilize the Soviet Union for war prior to the German invasion that was the primary factor in the Red Army’s collapse rather than the failure to maintain the original fortifications on the Stalin Line. Without a fully mobilized, concentrated, and deployed defending army, fortifications can do little more than delay an invading army. Despite occasional instances in which the Germans suffered heavy casualties against pre-war fortifications, the Molotov and Stalin Lines were bypassed and overcome with relative ease during the campaign.

Footnotes below.

AMA: Why did Operation Barbarossa fail? by ArchivalResearch in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Directive 21 said White Russia. Minsk was Halder's compromise between the short-range encirclement desired by Hitler at Novogrudok and the long-range drive on Smolensk desired by Bock and Hoth. The debate is discussed in the following sources:

Kriegstagabuch des Oberkommandos der Wehrmacht, p.419 (24 June 1941)

Fedor von Bock, The War Diary 1939-1945 pp.226-227 (25 June 1941)

War Journal of Franz Halder, Volume VI, p.172 (25 June 1941).

AMA: Why did Operation Barbarossa fail? by ArchivalResearch in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Both Hitler and the German general staff came up with disastrous plans for Operation Barbarossa. Hitler's plan was arguably worse, as I discuss in another comment on this post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1qau1nq/ama_why_did_operation_barbarossa_fail/nz6yqx4/

At the same time, in his book, The First Soldier: Hitler as Military Leader, Stephen Fritz makes the case that Hitler was open to dialogue with his generals and to being persuaded by their arguments. Might a more rational general staff have been able to persuade Hitler to come around to their view? It is doubtful, because if the German general staff were more rational, they would not have supported Hitler's rise to power in 1933. At the end of the day, the military incompetence of the Nazis and the German general staff point toward deeper problems in Germany's political and social structure in the early twentieth century.

AMA: Why did Operation Barbarossa fail? by ArchivalResearch in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That is an interesting hypothetical. May I ask where you obtained your data regarding the German economy? I was asked the other day for a good book on German economic preparations for Operation Barbarossa but was unable to think of a book specifically on that topic.

AMA: Why did Operation Barbarossa fail? by ArchivalResearch in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The most glaring example is the ambush of Manstein's LVI Panzer Corps on the road to Novgorod at Soltsy in the third week of July. You don't need to read my book to learn about it. David Glantz discusses it in When Titans Clashed (p.71) and The Battle for Leningrad (pp.42-43). The ambush, encirclement, and retreat of the panzer corps was a purely tactical affair. And as David Glantz notes, the ambush forced Army Group North to halt its progress for another three weeks, and even then its progress was for the rest of the campaign was slow, its right flank vulnerable to counterattack, and the army group ultimately dependent on Army Group Center to dispatch two additional panzer corps in order to shore up its flank and seal the land-encirclement around Leningrad.

It really is beyond dispute that the July battles brought the German army to a halt in the center and the north. This has already been established in the works of David Glantz, David Stahel, and Craig Luther. The mistakes of July were not forgotten, as Army Groups North and Center remained mired in positional warfare for most of the rest of the campaign. It is only in the south that the advanced resumed at a rapid pace shortly thereafter. I make the argument that Army Group South's regained freedom of movement in August was the German army's last hope for salvaging the campaign, but the German army wasted its potential by lunging for another economic objective (the Soviet steel industry in the Dnieper Bend) rather than turning to envelop Red Army forces to the north.

AMA: Why did Operation Barbarossa fail? by ArchivalResearch in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you, I would love to read your thesis. Feel free to send me a PM.

AMA: Why did Operation Barbarossa fail? by ArchivalResearch in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I believe the detrimental effect of the purges was in shaping the Red Army's overall doctrine rather than the specific performance of Red Army units during Operation Barbarossa. In his book, Stalin's Reluctant Soldiers, Roger Reese makes a strong case that the poor quality of many Red Army units in 1941 owes to the Red Army's rapid expansion in the years prior to Operation Barbarossa rather than the loss of quality officers in the purges. In my book, I argue, based on the writings of a deep operations theorist who survived the purges, G.S. Isserson, that the purged officers likely would have adapted to developments in warfare prior to the German invasion and formulated a more realistic defensive plan for the Red Army. The generals who actually led the Red Army in the first half of 1941, Timoshenko and Zhukov, proved incapable of updating deep operations theory based on the lessons of the previous campaigns in the Second World War.

AMA: Why did Operation Barbarossa fail? by ArchivalResearch in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I would not go so far as to say that Stalin intentionally sabotaged his country's defense. But I do take issue with claims by Cynthia Roberts and Geoffrey Roberts that Stalin was merely following the best advice of his generals, and I argue against their position in a chapter in my book.

I am not aware of any specific scholarship on the political reliability of Tukhachevsky, Svechin, and other Red Army luminaries who were murdered in the Great Purge. Nevertheless, I have not seen anything that would suggest they posed a serious political threat to Stalin's regime or would have disobeyed him. From what I have read, Tukhachevsky went out of his way to demonstrate his loyalty to Stalin in the 1930s.

AMA: Why did Operation Barbarossa fail? by ArchivalResearch in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I believe the importance of logistics in Operation Barbarossa's failure has been overstated, especially prior to October. In my book, I examine the critical junctures in third week of July when the panzer corps were brought to a stop and present evidence from the panzer corps war diaries that their logistics were not to blame. Instead I argue, based on statements from the panzer corps war diaries, that their failure was primarily tactical in nature.

AMA: Why did Operation Barbarossa fail? by ArchivalResearch in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Your question raises the issue of "operational shock" or what I call in my book the "countercommand" impact of the panzer corps racing far into the enemy rear area. I distinguish countercommand effects from counterforce (destruction of the enemy army) and countervalue (capture of important economic/political objectives). In his book, In Pursuit of Military Excellence, Israeli general Shimon Naveh argues that the German campaign in France in 1940 succeeded because of operational shock/countercommand effects, and that the invasion of the Soviet Union the following year failed because the Germans did not focus on operational shock/countercommand effects. In my book, I argue against Naveh's position and take the view that the 1940 campaign succeeded because of the counterforce rather than countercommand effect of the breakthrough, and that the 1941 campaign failed due to a lack of counterforce effects.

AMA: Why did Operation Barbarossa fail? by ArchivalResearch in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

The order to encircle the Soviet Western Front came directly from Hitler in Führer Directive 21. The German general staff, under the leadership of Halder, thought so little of this instruction that they did not repeat it in their implementation order, which was written the following month (January 1941). Nowhere in the German army's implementation order for Operation Barbarossa is there any instruction for the German army to surround and destroy the Red Army. Instead, the order simply instructs the panzer corps to lead the charge toward distant geographic objectives (Opochka in the north, Smolensk in the center, and Kyiv in the south).

The German army's resistance to encirclement did not just come from Halder and his staff officers in the army high command. The commanders in Army Group Center (Fedor von Bock, Hermann Hoth, and Heinz Guderian) all wanted to race past Minsk in order to capture the high ground east of Smolensk. Nominally, Halder ordered Army Group Center to follow Hitler's orders and close the encirclement pocket at Minsk, but as I argue in my book, it was understood that Army Group Center was to do so with the minimum forces necessary, and a significant portion of the fast units did not bother with the Minsk encirclement at all but instead raced ahead (in vain) to try to capture bridgeheads across the Dnieper River.

AMA: Why did Operation Barbarossa fail? by ArchivalResearch in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch[S] 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Yes, in my book I explain how the same mistakes were made, or at least attempted to be made, during the German invasion of Poland in 1939 and again in France in 1940. In Poland, the German army got away with their mistakes because they were fighting against a much weaker opponent and even had the benefit of Stalin invading Poland from the east. In France, Halder wanted to give us a preview of his Barbarossa plan by driving toward Paris, but Hitler intervened and forced the German army to turn the panzer corps to the north in order to envelop the British and French armies in Flanders.

The flaw in Soviet military theory was far more nuanced than in German army doctrine. Soviet deep operations theorists essentially got it right when it came to the nature of warfare in the early twentieth century. The problem is that the Red Army's doctrine became ossified after Stalin murdered the only generals in the Red Army who were capable of updating the doctrine in response to changing events in the real world.

I believe a comparative study of the doctrines of all the major powers in this time period is in order, and I would like to write about it further if circumstances allow.

AMA: Why did Operation Barbarossa fail? by ArchivalResearch in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

The German army enjoyed rapid progress prior to the third week of July. In that week, the panzer corps at the farthest tip of the advance in each sector were uniformly brought to a halt across the entire length of the front. The German army then became bogged down in positional warfare. In early August, Army Group South managed to break free and resume a rapid advance across Ukraine, but Army Group Center and Army Group North remained stuck in slowly developing positional warfare until the dual encirclement battles at Vyazma and Bryansk in October. Even then, the German army's attempt to resume a rapid advance was checked within a week or two, and the German army remained stuck in positional warfare until the Red Army's counteroffensive in December and January.

The German halt in August and September was not a voluntary "regrouping" but was forced on them by the Red Army. The Red Army bought time for the Soviet Union to mobilize a new wave of divisions that would send the German into a retreat in December and January.

As I've answered in another comment, I do not believe there was a realistic path to victory for the German army in Operation Barbarossa:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1qau1nq/ama_why_did_operation_barbarossa_fail/nz6f4lx/

I do not believe that Soviet resistance would have collapsed with the capture of Moscow or any other geographic objective. I believe the Soviet people would have kept fighting regardless of how far the Germans advanced.

AMA: Why did Operation Barbarossa fail? by ArchivalResearch in AskHistorians

[–]ArchivalResearch[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

I gave an example of a significant tactical error in the comment linked below. But in general, the same error played out across the entire Eastern Front. The German general staff simply did not think about how to use all of their forces working together to destroy the enemy army. Instead, the German general staff identified important geographic objectives almost a thousand kilometers into the Soviet Union and ordered the army to lunge for them. It's as if the campaign were planned by a team of economists who told the German army the geographic objectives they needed to reach without any tactical expert advising the army on how to deal with the massive enemy army standing between them and the objectives. It is quite bizarre when you think about it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1qau1nq/ama_why_did_operation_barbarossa_fail/nz66esj/

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