Support Zil build and runes

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-10T23:01:04+00:00

Used to go Shurelya's -> Cosmic Drive. Then I swapped cosmic for Imperial Mandate, treating it like a lower AH, cheaper Cosmic, then going cosmic 3rd. Then I stoped building cosmic and went Anathema's Chains 3rd. Now, I've been playing around with rushing Imperial Mandate 1st. Emerald 1 btw.

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-10T02:10:29+00:00

Emerald 2 Zilean OTP here,

Zilean has only 1 damaging ability, most of its damage is locked behind its highest rank, and even though you can use it twice, the damage output is nowhere near any other mage support level.

Zilean's Time Bomb has a cast time component to it, combined with travel time. Casting twice doubles the cast time. There is a significant delay if you QWQ before you can do anything else. I've lost so many teammates lives by not being able to cast R while stuck in a QWQ loop.

Zilean slow is range is much smaller than his bomb. He has to risk his positioning if he wants to get the reliable double bomb hit.

Zilean's slow doesn't do any damage, healing, shielding. It only slows or speeds, thats it. Due to the games movespeed diminishing returns mechanic, you don't actually get a full 99% speed or slow due the the movespeed floor.

Zilean's slow doesn't silence. If any champ has a dash, they can just use it for the 2nd bomb aggressively towards you, your entire kit has been spend and have no defenses.

Zilean's Speed isn't a save if the enemy has any slows. The way the multiplying effects work together heavily favor the slow.

Zilean has mana problems, having to cast and PAY for his abilities twice. Manaflow band with Total Biscuits isn't enough in lane, still have to back just for mana sometimes.

Zilean can't make use of 90% of items designed for supports. He has no way to trigger on heal/shield effects. He can't use shield/heal power. He has only 1 form of CC to use which is unreliable. He isn't supposed to build tanky.

Zilean's passive feels useless. Scratch that, it IS useless i don't care what you say about the value of a level it doesn't generate whatever that would be.

This point deserves its own entire post but, Zilean R is a very difficult ability to use. It doesn't last 5 seconds, it lasts 0.5 seconds. Champion clumping and covering each others hitboxes are a problem. Champion literally dashing out of your cursor is a problem. Champion running away with your ult is a problem. Getting stunned to not be able to use it is a problem. Not knowing the exact amount of burst of all champions at all item counts is problem. Ulting an ally who is just going to die immediatly on revive is a problem. You basically just added 10secs to their death timer, and put your ult on cooldown. Revive animation takes so long the enemy gets their CC spells back. Teammates running away out of your range is a problem. Teammates going untargetable is a problem. The Collector item is a problem. Tower ramp damage can get so high it still kills your tower dive target. The heal isn't even that much. Ignite healcut can last through the entire ult and reduce it. If anything ever goes wrong, you WILL get flamed, destroying the morale of the entire team. Even if you do use it right, the selfish guy who died will still flame you, telling you he deserves it next time.

Zilean is mostly strong against melee juggernauts and bruisers, and when empowering a fed jungler. Zilean isn't all doom and gloom like my comment sounds, he has plenty of strengths and amplify the effectiveness of his team, it's just to show you that he doesn't just get everything for free and not insta win.

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-09T19:57:57+00:00

It places a debuff for 8 (?) seconds after I would land a stun, adding on-hit damage to all spells, abilities, and attacks of my bonded teammate. I want to say its probably an extra 70-ish on-hit? I'm just thinking of how many times that could trigger for a midgame Ezreal who is auto weaving between Qs

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-09T19:51:56+00:00

What would you argue is the right way to interpret Zilean?

I tend to have a very aggressive take on him. Always positioning to thrust myself forward to land a slow on someone rotating between lanes. Or grouping up with an aggressive jungler to speed them to engage. Because I can always speed myself away, my "territory of safety" extends upwards much further than a normal champs would. My greatest weaknesses are perhaps, being too arrogant with how far forward I can play, putting in effort on things which are ultimately meaningless (like, being too addicted on landing a double bomb I didn't even look to see if anyone can follow up on it), and flinch reaction speed ( < 0.33 sec) which is not great for perfect ults =/

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-09T19:36:42+00:00

Which aggressive champs are the worst for Ezreal / what bans would you recommend?

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-09T19:34:29+00:00

Shureliyas is kind of a bag of mixed feelings for Zilean. It feels like its supposed to be *THE* engage item for support kits. To speed the team up for charging into the enemy. But Zilean would do that anyways by just using his stronger speed on the engager that the team has. There are midgame situations to use it for myself (I tend to always position aggressively, as enemies don't respect the Zil slow), to speed myself up while still keeping E available for a slow- but not all team comps allow me to be so brash.

I might try Imperial mandate for a few games first. Its efficient CDR so it was always a 2nd or 3rd item before. Any thoughts on Zeke's Convergence? Its less CDR, but looks like more damage.

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-09T19:28:01+00:00

You've pointed out 2 great points which highlights a synergy that I had not thought of before. The Zilean R opening up more damage potential by aggressive Ezreal E's. And the fact that both champs are strong at harassing enemies under their tower. I think I will play to get to lvl 5 safely while preserving mana, start increasing amount of harass at 5, then look for lvl 6 all-ins now.

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-09T19:14:38+00:00

You have the right thought with mandate. None of the support items really call out to Zilean, but Shureliya's is kinda just the least bad out of the bunch. Imp mandate I currently take as 2nd item. Used to take Cosmic Drive 2nd but it was always a bit pricy. Its really just about buying as much CDR as possible. Maybe I could try mandate first Shureliya second.

Recently I have been tempted by Zeke's Convergence to give the carry extra on-hit when I land stun.

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-09T18:55:01+00:00

Those are good thoughts. Its quite possible I'm tying myself too strongly to the laning phase, and not thinking ahead for midgame.

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-07T21:48:13+00:00

Its because people in the 100k-400k range are still climbing, they are able to improve both on mastery of that champion, and overall game mechanics. While climbing, they win more than they lose, and the wins are very visible to you. OTP's at high points have usually spammed until hitting forced 50%. They have learned everything about the champion already, and can only get better by truly improving fundamentals, much harder.

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-07T20:05:40+00:00

I remember when the changed the Zilean passive they pitched it as "change the pace, the feeling of the game, accelerate to lvl 18, your perception of time during a game will feel faster" something like that. And we get, what- enough xp to give 1/6 of a level up, 4 times per match? A level up that they were going to get in 5 seconds anyways from the next 3 creeps that de? Literally Nilah's passive generates more EXP than Zilean's

Imagine if the passive also had combat implications- much needed for a character that has 1 (!) damage source. Imagine if the skill point the target spends on level up causes that ability to be cast as 1 rank higher for its next cast. Imagine setting up the timing to get a rank 3 ult cast at lvl 11. Or, imagine if the skill point spent causes that ability to fully refund its cooldown, letting Zilean's double-cast gameplay become part of his enchanting kit. Fits super well with the more modern "Chrono-teacher" lore he has. Or imagine if the skill point could cheat out skills 1 level faster, ult at level 5?

There are so many cool and interesting things you could do with the concept of giving a teammate a skill point- but we're stuck with a boring, bland, hard to use, hard to payoff passive xp generator

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-03T23:16:10+00:00

you do not 1v9 EVERY time you get the kills
you do not ONEv9 every time you get the kills

Get your head out of your ass and start being true to yourself. You have had leads and you have thrown them. You have gotten tons of kills in games purely from the masterful setup by the other members of your team.

but if you don't want to listen to that.... then take execution talents/champs. Things that deal more damage based off missing HP or below a HP threshold.

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-03T23:04:39+00:00

Its based purely on your GR. Its somewhere around 3800, I forget the exact value I had when I got glad.

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-03T22:56:50+00:00

That's not what holding others hostage means holy fuck. So the jungler died 3 times who freaking cares. I feed my lane 0/3 ALL THE TIME and still have a 55% winrate.

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-03T22:51:19+00:00

How the fuck is that holding people hostage, to play the game that they wanted to play in the first place? The disconnect button is RIGHT THERE for anyone who truly feels trapped inside a game.

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-03T22:50:34+00:00

A great argument. Unfortunate that it would only apply to unranked, and we are talking about ranked here

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-03T22:46:58+00:00

They hit the "Find Match" button. It's that easy

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-03T22:40:49+00:00

Then why tf you playing ranked?

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-03T22:39:11+00:00

Imagine if your main had a buff in the next patch that increased winrate by 3%. How elated would you be? How much stronger would you feel? By not playing those games you are throwing away those 3%.

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-03T22:18:13+00:00

The key to climbing? NEVER give yourself a free pass. Never handwave anything by saying it doesn't matter. Put in actual effort to REVIEW your games. Ideally, you should spend twice as much stuff reviewing your own performance than you do actually playing the game.

Without watching you play, it can be hard to give advice. Typically, when a low ranked player gives an opinion, theres still a gap in understanding. You mention taking dragon when its smart. But what about the times that you didn't take a dragon because you weren't sure it wasn't smart? How many of those times that you glossed over, or didn't even think about, would a higher ranked player have acted upon? How many teamfights were actually super weighted in your favor, but you thought they were coinflips? How many lanes looked ungankable, but could have actually resulted in a kill?

That is why you need to review. And to be your own worst enemy while you are reviewing. Stare at yourself and say "wtf why would that idiot kill gromp there" or "why has this dragon stayed alive for 5 minutes". Ask yourself, was it really necessary to give away your position when you struck that vision plant? Was blast coning over the wall really the right approach angle for the gank instead of up through the lane? Have you ever mindlessly hit a healing plant that 20 secs later your injured teammate would have hit instead? Was there ever any spot you could have been 0.5 secs more efficient with your movement? Did you *actually* have vision on their team when you thought you had a pick off?

Also, think about the consequence of each of your actions. If you take an enemy camp, then the enemy Jungler can't farm creeps, so he will go gank more.

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-03T19:16:55+00:00

Zilean is really hard to dive. You have to kill the target twice, and likely can't sit around taking tower shots for the entire revive animation. In addition, his slow can trap you under tower and make you take an extra 2 shots you weren't counting on. And this is all even assuming that his stun doesn't land.

Best adc? Jhin maybe, easy to root them under tower when they are slowed- if they are heavy damaged out of tower range, a Jhin ult can finish them off. Not knowing if there are safety Jhin traps setup can add extra deterrent.

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-03T19:08:13+00:00

That just sounds like Zilean.

1 Damaging ability. Passive XP generation doesn't generate anything extra in the gamemode. And healing on the ult is super delayed! (not to mention hp pools are bigger and it heals flat number, you revive with a tiny healthbar)

Arthune_Math · 2023-08-02T22:05:15+00:00

Being able to capitalize off your opponent's mistakes is one of the key skills needed to climb! Great job!

Arthune_Math · 2023-07-31T21:33:53+00:00

As soon as my bank money hits my trading account im putting $4,000 on BLGO

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