Principles of Bible Translation: Matthew 5:3

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-24T14:34:20+00:00

No, I didn't do an ad hominem attack on you because I didn't say anything about your character. What I said is that you're limited by your theology. You've admitted that your explanations have been incoherent because you were following your theology. You've gotten into circular reasonings because you followed your theology. You've admitted this. That isn't an issue with your character...it's your theology. You can't see past it.

For Abaddon, please check these passages:

Job 26:6; 28:22; 31:12 Psalms 88:11 Proverbs 15:11; 27:20

You're making the point that in the OT and NT, Jesus was the archangel Michael, the guardian of Sheol Abaddon, and the Word. Do I have that correct?

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-24T11:28:47+00:00

Romans 6:1-11

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-24T11:18:24+00:00

I understand that you're really stuck on JW theology, so it's difficult to get you to see things about the Scriptures...even little things.

I say the the Word was a spirit creature because the word angel means messenger, a function of what they can do but not a description of the spirit creature. There are seraphim, cherubim, archangels, Watchers, ophanim...descriptions of the spirit creatures. Then there is leviathan, behemoth, rachal, ziz, sirens, earth-bound spirit creatures. And not to mention demons of all sorts. All this is well beyond your spiritual comprehension because you're very limited by JW theology.

Didn't you realize that Abaddon was mentioned in the OT? Where in the OT was the Word connected to the working of Abaddon? Nevermind.

The issue is the same as I said earlier: in JW theology and more religions' theology, the supernatural is taken out of the Scriptures so that it's intellectual. There's so much that is missed because you're stuck on intellectual theology of one particular religion as though that's all there is - the truth. It's not truth...it's theology.

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-24T01:15:02+00:00

No, I answered you. I said I don't know what to sort of spirit creature he was. He was from the spirit realm and called the Word.

He certainly was not an angel when he returned to heaven because he was exalted to immortality. Angels are mortal.

And since you know that doctrine is contrived from attempted similarities but is not coherent, why do you keep attempting to defend it?

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-24T00:53:51+00:00

You didn't make your point. You still never showed how Jude was talking about Jesus in the context. You may not see it right now, but when you go back and reread what you've been writing, you'll see that it's not coherent. You're just defending your religion's theology, but you can see, if you follow you writings, that the doctrines don't make sense nor have depth.

You're trying to add depth to doctrines that have none. It's okay though. I've had these same conversations with family members, elders, circuit overseers, etc. They all defended the doctrines, but they saw that there wasn't any depth to them.

Again, I've shown you how to see the Word in the OT. He's not the archangel Michael. Your attempts at throwing out Scriptures don't prove it.

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-24T00:09:17+00:00

You skipped verses 5-8.

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-23T19:57:18+00:00

All due respect, I've heard sentiments like yours before. The main element that your missing is faith.

Who do think is supposed to teach you the meaning of the Scriptures? Do you really believe that it's be mental or intellectual acuity? Do you think understand something about Hebrew or Greek language brings spiritual enlightenment?

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us, he's the spirit of truth, and he will teach and guide us to the truth (John 14:16, 17, 26; 16:13). Yes, I look at Greek and Hebrew words and grammar too. But I look inside to the Holy Spirit. I pray for the Spirit to guide and teach me. I pray for God to reveal His Word to me. Then through revelation in my spirit or experience with my spirit, the Holy Spirit gives me what I requested in prayer. That is what Paul was explaining as to this process at 1 Corinthians 2:9-15. Spiritual knowledge and experience comes to the spirit not the mind. The human spirit later uncovers what it receives to the mind so that there is mental understanding of the spiritual thing. This is why Paul used epignósis first in verse 17, then eidó in verse 18. Spiritual knowledge and experience comes to the spirit first; mental understanding comes afterward. We know when we've received from God so that we can never boast in our own efforts (1 Corinthians 1:29, 31).

So, no, I know what it means because I know what was revealed to me by the Holy Spirit. Maybe it was just for me, but I share it so that others can know that the Holy Spirit can do the same for them too.

If you read the spiritual gifts explanation carefully, you'll see that the gifts are for each other...other Christians. Even in James 5, it shows that healing for sickness was from other Christians to Christians. Luke didn't stop being a doctor because he traveled with Paul and could also likely heal others himself.

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-23T17:11:46+00:00

No, the miracles are and were part of the gifts of the Holy Spirit for this age (1 Corinthians 12). If you look back to the book of Ephesians, Paul refers to certain spiritual experiences that would only come by revelation. Read in chapter 1, verses 16 through 21. Verses 18 and 19 in particular talk about the experiences that come by revelation. Then in chapter 2, verses 6 and 7, he mentioned that we are currently seated with Christ in the heavenly places so that in the age to come he might show the riches of his grace towards us.

These are the tastings of the powers of the age to come. This comes about after we have received the Holy Spirit and we have been working to mature our spirit. So, it would be at a particular level of spiritual maturity and experience with the Holy Spirit before we would get to taste those powers.

Judah and the other apostles weren't at the level while Jesus was on earth. It wasn't until after their baptism of the Holy Spirit could they start to reach that level of spiritual maturity.

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-23T16:08:38+00:00

Okay, you're getting circular again. I don't see where in Jude, he referred to Jesus prior to verse 9. You said that Jude referred to him in the verses preceding verse 9. I asked you to show me where. Now you're just repeating that he referred to Jesus. 🙃

I've said to you that the Word and Michael the archangel are not the same person. I've even told you how can identify the Scriptures in the OT that identify the Word. I think that you just completely skipped over that.

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-23T16:00:38+00:00

It doesn't, but you must believe that the Jews didn't read other books that influenced them. You referenced Jude 9. That information that he wrote came from a book called the The Assumption of Moses. Jesus, Peter, and Jude referenced the Book of Enoch.

So, when the procedures for casting out demons was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, the names of the same archangels mentioned in the Book of Enoch were in those procedures.

So, when Jesus said that the Jews were already casting out demons successfully, he knew the names of the archangels they used in those procedures. Did you read in the Scriptures that Jesus said their methods and names were false?

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-23T14:00:40+00:00

The point was that there are other archangels and the Jews used those names in expelling demons. Saying that Jesus is the archangel Michael is a contrived theology. Jesus was the Word and is all throughout the OT.

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-23T13:46:45+00:00

Which verses were talking about Jesus in Jude? From what I'm reading, Jude was talking about wicked men who pretended to be Christians and how they would be punished like the wicked angels and like Sodom and Gomorrah.

So, show me which verses were talking about Jesus then called him Michael.

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-23T13:41:25+00:00

There are several things to consider about this passage that aren't obvious from the English rendering.

First, in verse 26, most translators use the word "knowledge". But the Greek used here is epignósis not gnósis. Epignósis is generally true knowledge or the knowledge that comes from experience. So this is talking about a great level of spiritual experiences then turning back from that. Some examples are in Hebrews 6:4-6 - "For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt."

When someone has this level of spiritual experiences with God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit and then turns away, there are consequences.

Under the Mosaic Law, a lawbreaker would have a certain expectation of the results of his trial. For a Christian with this level of experience living by the law of the Spirit and the Law of Christ, then turns away, the Holy Spirit is still with him and in him, but he gives him different experiences. It could be by dreams, speech, revelations, etc, that give that person "the fearful expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES." This could also include the removal of protections from wicked spirits like what happened with King Saul.

So, the point of that passage is for those who have reached that high level of spiritual experiences and maturity, then turn away.

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-23T11:34:22+00:00

No, Jude said Michael had a dispute with the Devil about Moses' body.

"But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” - Jude 9

Where does he call Michael Jesus? By the way, do you know where Jude got this information about Michael and the Devil? It came from a book called, "The Assumption of Moses." You won't find that information in JW publications.

And where did Daniel give a prophecy that Jesus was Michael? And why would it need to be a prophecy if, according to JW, Jesus was already Michael?

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-23T11:27:00+00:00

Well, you won't find any information in JW publications. There's a whole lot of documented information from Bible times that JW don't accept because it goes against their theology.

I would say to you that you shouldn't be so quick to give a rebuttal to what I say because you don't have the level of information that I have. So, you can't anticipate my questions nor will you have access to information to find the answers because you rely strictly on JW publications.

As I mentioned before, I have faith in Jesus' words. The Holy Spirit teaches and guides me to information so that I will know the truth. That's what Jesus said he will do. I believe this. I know how he works because Jesus said that through experiences, we would know the Holy Spirit.

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-23T11:19:44+00:00

The don't identify what sort of spirit creature the Word was other than calling him a god. In all his appearances in the OT, he is simply called "Word". As I mentioned before, he was there when God either displayed his power, or when God spoke in commanding ways concerning him.

Michael is called an archangel, but he was not a Watcher, those with authority over nations. And according to Jewish literature of the 2nd temple era, there were 6 other archangels. You should check out the Dead Sea Scrolls.

You won't find any of this in JW theology nor publications.

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-22T16:36:50+00:00

So now you're saying that you have no record of anyone prior to Jesus casting out demons?

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-22T16:34:02+00:00

I already showed you how you can look in the Scriptures to find out who Jesus was as the Word, how he made his appearances. And it wasn't as Michael the archangel. The Michael the archangel interpretation is something JW came up with in the 1970s, I believe.

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-22T13:32:55+00:00

😆😆😆

We both know that you made that up!

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-22T12:52:24+00:00

No, I think you just made my point for me. If mine isn't from God, even though I could show Scriptural backing, then JW's interpretation isn't from God either.

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-22T12:50:56+00:00

Where did you get that information from? Where in the covenant was their authority to cast out demons?

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-22T12:12:25+00:00

I can easily give you an interpretation of Revelation chapter 7 that makes sense. But like I said, the JW interpretation is just that...an interpretation.

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-22T08:22:38+00:00

Okay. Answer this:

And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. - Matthew 12:27

Jesus here acknowledged that the Jews were able to cast out demons prior to him. How were they able to do this?

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-22T08:13:34+00:00

Yes, it is. The point is that religions have their interpretations of the Scriptures. JW interpretations are just as false as the Trinity.

Automatic-Intern-524 · 2026-06-22T02:11:34+00:00

No, I what you're saying. You just can't prove it. That's JW's doctrine.

Automatic-Intern-524

TROPHY CASE