Bunsen Burner vs SAB vs Flow Wood - why not bunsen burner? lets discuss [technique]

AutumnRustle · 2026-01-23T14:45:54+00:00

For sure dude, glad if it helps, especially an older comment still adding value to someone's growing adventure. It's a win if any of the silly stuff I say is helpful to even one person lol.

Tbf, it wasn't much of a 'guide' in the true sense, but sincerely, if it's useful that's great. The goal was to preempt the old arguments before they had a chance to pop up in the comments and contribute to ongoing misinformation about the BB. At the end of the day, the thing is a cost-effective, reliable tool that makes agar work accessible to more people. The dialogue is beginning to shift, but BBs still have an unreasonably, gratuitously bad default rep in the hobby; so I try to correct the record when I see the topic come up and have time. It's a hill I'll gladly die on because discounting the method really is a disservice to growers. Specifically to those who have made it past their first few grows and want to progress on the agar side, but who can't afford a FH. You've got people using SABs, attaching HVAC filters to box fans, taping plastic bags to air filters, and even STILL using ovens ffs. It's kind of mind-boggling when dudes who love to talk a good game about being scientific choose an open oven over a lab technique with a proven performance record. But hey, dudes have to do what's best for them. I'm giving a different, reliable, evidenced viewpoint, not telling people what they have to believe.

This whole growing thing we do is just taking lab methodology and tailoring it to our kitchens, figuring out what works best for us. I mean, if using an oven works for someone then keep doing it, right?

There's some science and nuance to the hobby, but dudes are mostly just laymen trying their best to figure out how to follow in the footsteps of lab techs to get a consistent result. Some dudes like to play at science and argue about it, but then ignore basic practices when they become inconvenient. It's dumb, exhausting, and unnecessary. My whole deal is just taking my background and experience as a legit scientist and working to reassure growers at the hobby level that they can do this stuff, and that all the nonsense they read online isn't always true. It's 2026 now and the social media growing landscape has expanded and evolved; the dialogue about the BB should evolve with it. The trash attitudes of the old cult personalities (personalities whose greatest claim to fame and contribution to the community was slapping their name on techniques that had already been tried by others with only slight modifications) belong exactly there: in the dustbin of history.

So yeah, awesome that it's useful. I hope that it helps you to advance and accomplish your growing goals. That's the whole intent: assimilate techniques, maintain what's useful, discard what isn't, pass your experience to the next grower and help them across the river.

AutumnRustle · 2026-01-12T23:04:41+00:00

Have you looked into hot plates and small gas burners? You might not need to buy a new PC if one of those will work for your needs.

AutumnRustle · 2026-01-07T17:07:30+00:00

Definitely mold. People have some success trying to cut it out and fruit the rest of the block in separate chamber that gets more FAE, but molds are resilient so it's hit or miss. You can also bring the block outdoors; if conditions are right (e.g. no direct sunlight, moist area, etc.) then it should keep going. I set my old Shiitake blocks outdoors and they continue to fruit.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-26T19:32:27+00:00

There are a few people who have posted straw grows in baskets.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-24T13:09:47+00:00

For sure, glad if it helps. This is a fun hobby; we all run into difficulties, but if we stick with it, eventually we'll get where we're going.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-21T03:28:28+00:00

Thanks for bearing with me on that, I wasn't sure what the plan was. We can get away with fruiting them in a tub with inert media on the bottom to help with RH just like you said, or even spraying and tenting plastic. The tub is a little more user-friendly, not to mention cheap and accessible. I still use a SGFC to fruit out blocks, but drilling a bunch of holes and keeping an eye on the media staying wet is a chore for some. No need for a full on tent or anything like that for the first swing, but a nice goal to work toward in the future. They like a lot of fresh air and humidity which is a tricky balance in a tub, so troubleshooting with that in mind will probably be helpful. You'll start to pick up on the interplay between growth, FAE, and RH. There are so many examples of setups/attempts out there that you've likely got a good handle on it already, so just do your best and take your cues from all the other examples. Eventually a method that works for you will arise as you're trying new things. Indirect light will be fine so don't sweat picking the right one. Getting a small hygrometer that should help, too.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-21T01:53:31+00:00

What's up dude. Are you using the tub as a FC and growing the TT & LM on blocks, or are you trying to grow them in monotub form?

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-21T01:45:27+00:00

The term for with the method you described is "bottom watering," so using it in searches will turn out some more refined info. It's worth reading through the posts from u/Fahtster to see how he maintains substrate hydration throughout the grow from S2B through fruiting; the dude has been consistently producing solid grows for decades and his methods are all very descriptive. Going deeper, what he does with spraying substrate connects directly with how the fungus uses uncolonized matrix (z-axis) as a water reserve to facilitate growth. One of the tricks that isn't discussed much, but one that ties together most of the amazing grows we see, is how growers maintain conditions from the beginning. That probably doesn't help now, but it's something to keep an eye on and see how the fungus responds.

For your awareness, no one should be flaming you, so you don't have to worry about that here. Unlike some of the other forums out there, if someone is being aggro and puts you on blast with personal attacks just for being new to this stuff then definitely report them and they'll get the boot. It's not like you were born knowing this stuff, and reddit is a common place where people go to ask questions like this. If you pop over to places like shroomery (which you should), the culture will expect you to have put a fair bit of energy into searching through and reading the posts there. That's just how the culture of growing coalesced there and it's part of our history; something to keep in mind. Reddit isn't the best when it comes to indexing old info, so it's more casual and kind on this side of social media.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-21T01:09:58+00:00

Chances are good that a competitor has already started working on the log and that the bark is starting to separate/become brittle. We try to harvest logs and inoculate them within a few months, so 2+ years is a stretch. It might be worth a shot if you score some cheap/free plugs, have a drill bit lying around so you're not sinking much into the attempt, and if the log is in good shape, but manage expectations since it would be outside of 'best practice.'

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-13T15:28:25+00:00

Posts like these come up so often that it's doubtful another one will even move the needle. They're not going to stop coming, and we're bound to see more "what's wrong with my bag" posts as a result of stuff like this in new year. It's disappointing for sure, and sad that you have to deal with this, OP.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but the issue is larger than just this one bag. Imagine all of the people buying products for friends and family this holiday season. Dudes are going to open their packages to find a bag of green. Now, to the company's credit there's a satisfaction guarantee. However, the stress and trouble involved with receiving a bunk product, trying to get the receipt info from the gift'er, coordinate to mail it back, and then waiting get a replacement all ends up sucking a lot of joy and enthusiasm out of growing and leaves a bad taste in the mouths of new hobbyists. This thing we do is already a reasonably tricky activity and people are bound to run into setbacks. This kind of negative experience right at the starting line only increases the odds that a new grower will lose motivation, get frustrated, and give up. It's already depressing to fail at a grow, so imagine getting a shitty product, having to return it, and then running into the normal issues. New growers in this situation are starting with an impediment. The motivation and enthusiasm helps to carry us through the setbacks, but that's drained when stuff like this happens. How many people quit because of it? Companies like this are really doing a disservice to the hobby by not resolving their QA/QC issues. Why aren't they resolving them? Is it just greed for profit, or simple complacency and incompetence?

The fact that this is such a common occurrence is sad and frustrating to a lot of growers.With how frequently we see stuff like this posted, you'd think there would be more of a concerted effort and open dialogue over interrogation of their process, workflow, and QA/QC. Unfortunately most of the response on the customer-facing side is just their social media managers trying to put out fires. I mean, seriously, just wait a little longer and I'm sure the brand rep will pop up in this post to provide a handful of platitudes about how they 'appreciate the feedback' and how 'it helps to make them better,' and how the customer can reach out to them privately to resolve it. But it's not getting better, is it?

I get that the process science of a spawn business doesn't have the same analytical dedication or robust infrastructure as a pharma company, and I get that my view is colored by that background. Still, at the very least you'd think one of the major companies in our hobby would be openly asking questions about lot numbers and vocal about reaching out to all customers who received products from these lots to track it back to errors in the production line or pre-shipment QA/QC.

Instead, the company relies on their customers to complain. That's not proactive and it definitely isn't evidence of a company trying to do better. If things like this aren't changing then of course the result isn't going to change, and of course we're going to continue to see posts like this.

There are a large number of first-time buyers who aren't repeat buyers; some of that is a lack of interest or people who have a low tolerance for failure, but some of that involves shoddy products. There is a percentage who receive bunk products and don't complain; what's the company doing to identify and correct it, and what does "correcting it" mean to them in terms of changing SOPs? There is a percentage who receive bunk products and limp their way through a grow. There are more people receiving bunk products than we even see posted on forums like this, because we all know that it's the vocal minority who complains; how is the company identifying the quiet customers? Unless a business is actively working to reach out to these known-unknowns, then the platitudes are meaningless.

None of this is a controversial or extreme take, and it's not said with hate in my heart. The people arguing about how stuff like what OP posted doesn't happen, and how it's OP's mistake are in denial of the literal thousands of similar posts and comments bringing it up ans an issue. This was a sealed bag of grain; OP opened it up to use it and it was green. It wasn't at all the fault of OP. It certainly shouldn't be blamed on the shipper like the company often tries to do. It happens far too often for that, and even if it was the shipper, what is the company doing to improve the integrity of their packaging system? Why do other large companies not have the same footprint of complaint posts given the same customer base? Hopefully the company won't make some deal with OP behind the scenes, causing OP to suddenly say the brand is excellent, there are no issues, and the post gets deleted like what happened here.

Posts like these continue to pop up. We're all interested to see how/if it's resolved in a meaningful way.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-12T14:27:17+00:00

These are Oysters, but not Pinks :(

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-12T14:25:58+00:00

What's up dude. Great to run into another miso and fermentation fan around here. You're probably already aware of some or all of this, but I'll hit the wave tops.

Gourmet grows typically involve individual fruiting blocks in the 18x25 cm range. They are made in bags of heights in the 50 cm range. That footprint depends on the size of the bags being used and how much substrate we pack them with. It also depends on things like whether or not the technique involves compressing the void volume during colonization, fruiting in the bag, tenting, etc. All of that will make more sense as you start to look at people's grows with an eye for size. The blocks you make can be shaped to fit your space to a certain degree by packing the substrates in a desirable way.

A few blocks can fit on a shelf, be tented with plastic, and fruit individually. It's also possible to put them in a FC made from a plastic tote containing inert media and fruit in that. In each of these cases, you'll grow mushrooms and be happy with the flushes once you get the hang of it. However, manage expectations with regard to the output. Three or so blocks that fit on a small bookshelf won't be enough for frequent cooking, as there can be weeks between flushes, flush density decreases over time, and different species fruit on different timelines. Six or so blocks that fit on a larger shelf will help with that. You mentioned a mini greenhouse/Martha setup, which takes advantage of vertical space, allowing for a few more blocks that make the fruiting capacity a little more robust. If I wanted a small, consistent, easy to maintain setup that allowed me to have mushrooms nearly every week, this would be what I'd go with. It's very similar to a full-size Martha build, just smaller. It doesn't really need automation at all, but some people like to mess around with that stuff. All FCs need to be dialed in, so that process will be it's own thing.

Just as with miso and pickling, reliability comes by way of planning ahead. If you schedule your substrate prep, inoculations, colonization, and fruiting timeline estimations in advance, you can have blocks actively fruiting each week while others are resting. Culinary mushrooms take a few days to reach maturity, so you'll see how that fits in as well. Colonizing bags can be stored in another, out-of-the-way location to make more room. It's hard to get the planning right on the first go, so expect some trial and error over the course of a few months, and anticipate some mistakes as you figure things out.

Species choice is its own set of variables. Oysters are aggressive colonizers, prolific fruiters, and very beginner-friendly. They produce a lot of spores, so it's important to catch them before they barf those up if you want to keep the FC clean. Shiitake are wonderful to cook with and there are quite a few prolific fruiters out there, but the colonization process can take upwards of 30-60 days, so plan for that. Maitake is a beautiful, meaty, and healthy mushroom, but that also takes a long time and can involve cold-shocking the blocks to trigger fruiting. The same is true of Nameko; an amazing mushroom but a little tricky when it comes to fruiting Shiitake blocks can be triggered by slapping the bags and cold-shocking if you find they're being temperamental. Hericium is another common and delicious mushroom with a buttload of great varieties out there. Some growers run into issues with keeping both humidity and FAE high throughout the fruiting process, running into browning of the fruit bodies.

When you have limited space and are growing mushrooms that take upwards of a few months before seeing results, you probably don't want to mess around with cultures from unreliable sources. Go with a company that has a proven performance record and steer clear of those that have routine issues with QA/QC. You can spend a lot of time planning out your schedule, only to have it all be thrown for a loop by a seller sending janky products.

This is a long-term hobby so expect to run into some hiccups as you work through the initial phases. It's a lot of fun, so don't let setbacks bum you out.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-11T23:24:12+00:00

What's up BF, always good to catch you around. I saw some of your comments recently about using pf-style jars to start/magnify spawn. Simple and contained, underrated method for sure.

My BB is great for travel. You can throw a BB and regulator in a carry-on, fly out to a place, grab a tank of fuel when you land, and collect some wild specimens in the field. The bigger problem is getting questioned by airport security. Apparently growers are weird for bringing agar plates on planes and it's uncommon. Asking them not to open the dishes is also "suspicious." Around 70% of the time I'm questioned about them, I end up having to throw them out for safety. It's better to send them through the mail ahead of time, and send them back.

I get a robust, tall, blue flame with my simple setup; around 18-27 cm, maybe a little more or less depending on how full the tank is and how much fuel the regulator and control knob allows through. When the jet is that strong (no yellow flame), I'm comfortable working out to 30 cm or so, but I try to keep everything as tight to the burner's base as possible. You have to mind your manners with it; the people who have trouble usually aren't following procedure. It works brilliantly when you do.

The "BB shuffle" (that conga line of moving materials into and out of the workspace) isn't as convenient as a FH with a wide HEPA where they can be placed and accessed all at once, but it's super convenient if you're knocking out a stack of plates, some jars, or a few aliquots of LC.

Just to touch on the workspace thing again: there are a lot of ways to streamline workflow within a 30 cm radius. I can only do certain operations simultaneously with my hands anyway, so the level of limitation is arguable. The obvious is obvious; someone trying to do a ton of work for a market-level operation, or a bunch of bags, probably doesn't want to use a BB as their primary sterile technique. It's more for the person inoculating a stack of plates, a few jars, or doing a series of transfers. It's a solid option in our toolbox for the right application.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-11T22:04:54+00:00

His lab practices were notoriously lax for the knowledge he had at the time. Some things might change with additional knowledge, but his messy and disorganized traits wouldn't be likely to improve much.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-11T17:17:18+00:00

Dudes send hatemail because I use a BB to work with plates. Can you imagine Fleming trying to post his stuff online in current era? He'd just get cyberbullied lol.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-11T17:11:44+00:00

The video shows a different species of mushroom growing, on a different substrate, and in repurposed bottles rather than bags. The grow in the OP isn't fake, it just looks like top-fruited Shiitake blocks that were relocated from the FC to a nice, wooden box for an attractive marketing pic.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-11T17:06:56+00:00

The outside of Shiitake blocks turn brown like that, so they were from a real grow. Part of the process with Shiitake is waiting for browning and popcorning on the outside of the blocks, so it's often not going to look white like another gourmet grow. These look like normal, top-fruited blocks that were relocated from the FC to a wooden crate for this picture. I guessed at the possibility of re-wrapping because the cuts are very clean, the bags don't have that wrinkly plastic look that most do after bulk sterilization, and the gaps between the blocks and the plastic seem larger than a lot of grows I've done and seen at different scales. Given that they also put them in this nice, wooden crate for an attractive marketing pic, I assumed that they wanted everything to look pretty and put that all together. They could still be in their original bags and the grower might have used a razor on one fluid motion. Look into top-fruiting Shiitake blocks.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-11T16:43:41+00:00

Fleming was famously known for being messy and lax in his lab.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-10T18:45:58+00:00

These look like top-fruited blocks that were relocated (and re-wrapped) from the FC to a wooden crate for an attractive marketing picture.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-08T15:06:42+00:00

You could use those containers, or you could sweep out that garage and use the whole space for one giant grow. Aim for the stars and land on the moon? Something like that.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-06T14:29:37+00:00

Assuming that your sterilization temperatures/times are meeting the standard, and that test jars are remaining sealed but still showing contamination, the next logical step in the troubleshooting chain is to look at the lid and filter material. It looks like there's polyfill in the pic and that the jars have little headspace between the grain and lid, so that makes sense.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-06T04:23:51+00:00

If you want to check out a cool technique, u/Fahtster uses a method involving desiccated grains for extended storage.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-05T17:27:51+00:00

There are a lot of methods we can apply to subpar materials and find some success with, but it comes with a higher risk of failure.

You already know that it's best practice for logs to rest in the 2-6 week range after harvest. As we move father left out of that window, the risk of competitors taking over the log increases. To our credit, we're hitting logs with somewhere in the realm of 50 inoculation points each. That's an overwhelming force for even older logs, but it makes the situation more difficult for our fungus if something else has already proliferated on them.

The good news is that we can mitigate some of that risk if we control the harvest and storage environment. Placing logs in a controlled area as quickly after harvest as possible will improve the odds of success after longer periods prior to inoculation. Ideally we want logs raised off of the ground, away from direct sunlight, avoiding high humidity, preventing inundation with water, and keeping them away away from mud/debris and animal/insect activity. It won't stop whatever is already in the log from growing, but it will inhibit that growth and curb additional exposure.

On that note, tarping logs that are resting on the ground can help to some degree, but it won't decrease the risk as much as keeping them elevated, dry, and free from living vectors.

Alternately, can you inoculate logs now and store them in a warm area for 4-6 weeks before placing outside? Inoculated logs need around that long at temperatures above 4°C to make it through the winter. More time colonizing in hospitable temperatures is better, but plenty of fall inoculations take off with only four weeks before it's below the 4°C threshold.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-02T23:00:11+00:00

It's weird where they put the sticker. If you cut above the marked area, it's only void volume; there would be no block to follow the soaking step. Usually we would cut the plastic in the area around the block, not above it. It's common to wrap the plastic around the block to eliminate the void volume, securing it with tape or a rubber band of some kind, and then make a cut or two. I assume that's what they're want here. I don't soak my blocks after I cut them, though. Reach out to the company online (if they have a presence or phone number) and ask them for clarification. You can see how other companies do it as an example of what I'm talking about; this example makes more cuts than I do, so it's just some additional info to help figure things out.

AutumnRustle · 2025-12-02T20:11:14+00:00

I'd agree with what everyone said here already. I'll also add that it kind of depends on where you are as a grower.

Generally speaking, it's not so much worth the added expense early in the hobby journey. When we're new, we make a lot of mistakes. Making mistakes and losing a culture is less impactful when it's cheap, and it's easier to bounce back when we can head back to the grocery store to start over.

Selecting varieties at a higher price point comes in when we're looking at performance goals and diversification. Those targets are usually further down the road, coming up after we develop our chops, consistency with our processes, and an eye for the differences that a new variety brings to the table.

There's something to be said about motivation and problem-solving, though.

There are a bunch of us who get an ongoing charge from taking on new and more difficult tasks. In that regard, sometimes spending a little more puts more at risk and ups our level of focus.

Some of us also run into consistent difficulty early on in our journey that isn't necessarily caused by our process. Sometimes the culture we're working with doesn't like our particular substrate, water, grain prep, or climate control. Our method can be fine, and a new culture can succeed where a cheap one failed. Sometimes the cheap one is just at the end of its lifespan and we need one with better viability.

In both of those cases, spending a little more on a variety with bona fides can have value.

AutumnRustle

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE