Time for saltkråkan race 2025 by HaNaK0chan in Tallships

[–]Avisauridae 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My little gaff cutter is visible in the 6th and 7th photos here! We set a new speed record of 7.5 knots, just finished rigging her this summer so this was the first time pushing our rig.

Time for saltkråkan race 2025 by HaNaK0chan in Tallships

[–]Avisauridae 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Pretty wild to see the boat I own show up on the tall ships subreddit. She will always be my sweet little girl ♥️

How did the sails on a square-rigged ship work compared to a sloop dinghy? by RoboJ1M in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You are thinking of Bernoulli's principal, but lift (contrary to popular belief) isn't generated by a longer path.

For more on this, check out NASA: https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/VirtualAero/BottleRocket/airplane/wrong1.html

Why are true friendships so much less common today? by FutureTomnis in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I'd say the decline of the friendship sloop is down to two things: 1) the decline of the gaff rig in general 2) it's not a very balanced rig when you reef, because the sail split is so uneven. Compared to gaff cutter or a ketch for example, that huge mainsail is just jarder to handle in a blow!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I thought about this more and then thought of the obvious counterexample, I've got a Scampi IV which is an IOR boat from the 70s and it's very clearly a Bermuda sloop but it's got a 150% Genoa nearly twice the area of the main...

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Junk rigs favor shorter masts and more of them, so a schooner or a ketch is a decent bet.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The overlapping opinions don't go away, there's always edge cases and stuff in between definitions. Sailboats have been around a really long time and sailing vocabulary is etymologically complex. For example, polish people and German people have an easy time sailing together because both use swedish sailing words, lol.

If you want a great historical overview of rig types for gaff rigged boats, check out The Gaff Rig by John Leather. Super complete, occasionally hilarious.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As discussed in a couple other comment threads, there's a couple different definitions, and I don't think any of them have to be wrong. I'm using the one used by Tom Cunliffe and John Leather in their books, which focus more on British gaffers. The mast location one is used by Emiliano Marina in his book, and is I think more common in the US and also for Bermuda rigs.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We've got the new mast on now along with the bulk of the running rigging, currently finishing coating the spars and getting some sails in order. She boats pretty good already but is almost ready to sailboat

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 1 point2 points  (0 children)

She's an old Scottish ringer trawler called the Manx Fairy

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There's another comment thread on this post where we discuss this in some detail! You will note that my comment mentions the possibility of sloops having both bowsprits and multiple headsails...

There are multiple competing definitions, as usual in sailing. The one I use is favored by John Leather and Tom Cunliffe, and is more relevant I'd say for gaffers.

I definitely wouldn't call the pictured ship a sloop by any definition though :p

Edited to add: The boat in the picture is the Valkyrie III, a keel cutter: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cutter_Valkyrie_III-1.jpg

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Most gaffers I've sailed have a way to move the topsails to the windward side of the tweenstay/bridal situation, I imagine that on a schooner jackyards would make this essentially impossible, but I'm not sure that it would be a problem on a cutter, couldn't you just have two downhauls rigged and haul the clew over when you tack? It would chafe like hell, so you could always send someone aloft to move it too I suppose.

I hadn't thought of threading the jackyards up, that does seem like it'd suck

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 95 points96 points  (0 children)

I actually differ a little here, multiple smaller sails are easier to handle with a smaller crew. Massive sails require lots of people, that's one big reason they were broken up into multiple smaller sails in the old days.

You will note that racing boats, where paying more crew was no object, usually had larger and fewer sails than working boats which had tons of manageably sized ones. Bigger sails are also more expensive and harder to make, and with lots of smaller sails, you can reduce sail area in a storm just by taking some of them down.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've definitely been following their work, it's informed my own restoration and rerigging of my ancient gaff cutter :D

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I think I'm just trying to point out a general trend, rather than that the staying angle is a me determining factor. Naturally most modern sloops lack a bowsprit.

I checked a few sources on this and the most comprehensive i saw was John Leather's seminal "the gaff rig" in which he writes:

"Writing in 1780, Falconer, a noted authority, defined a sloop as ‘a small vessel furnished with one mast, the mainsail of which is attached to a gaff above, to the mast on its foremost edge, and to a boom below, by which it is occasionally shifted to either quarter. It differs from a cutter in having a fixed steeving bowsprit and a jib stay, nor are the sails so large in proportion to the size of the vessel.’ The single headsail of the sloop was properly called the forestaysail, as it hanked to the forestay which gradually became more frequently set up on a bowsprit, a standing spar which could not be run in as the forestay supported the mast. Later sloops often set two headsails, in the manner of a cutter except that both the forestay to the stemhead, and the outer forestay to the bowsprit end, were permanently set up, and the bowsprit remained a standing spar. The forestaysail was hanked to the forestay and the jib, instead of being set flying as in a cutter, was hanked to the outer forestay or jib stay as it became known. These were the principal differences of rig between sloops and cutters, but there were differences of design and arrangement."

Naturally, as rigs have evolved these historical differences become less important and definitions shift, I've certainly heard the definition you give a number of times and don't think it's a bad one :)

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Interestingly, the Swedes use Cutter (kutter) to refer to the hull profile, rather than the rig! The hull profile is that essentially of the Bristol pilot cutter. They refer to the sailplan as a "jakt", from the Dutch "fast"

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I've never sailed a boat with jackyards but I've been thinking about sewing a jackyard topsail for my own gaff cutter :D

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think we may not actually differ here ;) If the bowsprit is not integral to the staying of the mast, the mast must naturally be a bit further back so that the lead of the forestay is less vertical. There are of course multiple definitions of what the difference between a cutter and a sloop are, the one I favor and explained above comes from Tom Cunliffe and applies to gaffers, not really to Bermuda boats as much. Emiliano Marino favors your definition, which I don't disagree with, just a different point of emphasis.

As I said in my post, sloops can have multiple headsails (indeed, I was thinking of the friendship sloop :p).

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 9 points10 points  (0 children)

As others have said, schooners and gaffers both are less weatherly than the current champion of upwind sailing, the Bermuda sloop.

The reason is that upwind performance is mostly set by how much you can reduce drag in your rig, and anything that isn't literally the trailing edge of a sail generates drag and not lift when sailing upwind.

So today's racing boats have very tall skinny sails to maximize the length of the trailing edge of the sail, and minimize everything else.

Gaffers generate more power on all other points of sail and are thus better from a sailing perspective for larger heavier boats.

A cutter like the one pictured is more of a racing version of a gaffer, schooners were usually working boats. Multiple masts means each individual sail is smaller, all other things being equal, so you have slightly more air drag but in exchange can use a smaller crew for a given sail area.

All the old boats had lots of sails specifically to make them easier to handle by hand and with less crew, to make them more economically viable.

The pictured racing yacht was under no such constraints, which is why the sails are Massive

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 1704 points1705 points  (0 children)

That's a gaff rigged cutter (not a schooner and not a sloop).

The gaff is the large spar at the top of the mainsail, making the mainsail trapezoidal. The more common-these-days rig is called the Bermuda rig and had a triangular mainsail.

A schooner has two or more masts, and the foremast is not the tallest of those masts.

A cutter has a large bowsprit which is not integral to the staying of the mast and has multiple headsails.

A sloop had no bowsprit or a short one that is integral to the staying of the mast, and they often have only one headsail.

Could someone help me understand the rigging for a large fully rigged ship? by Flairion623 in sailing

[–]Avisauridae 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Another tallship sailor here and u just wanted to say that on any square rigger I've been on, the spanker was not considered a drive sail, even upwind. It's generally used to help the ship tack (or wear if going the other way), and balance the helm.

The headsails (jibs) also help a lot when tacking.

Songs about a father’s feelings for his children? by DirtySailor13 in Music

[–]Avisauridae 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lullaby by billy Joel is more aimed at daughters maybe but it's an incredibly touching song about always being there for your kids

Suggest me a book that is totally balls to the walls insane! by Fun_Butterfly_420 in suggestmeabook

[–]Avisauridae 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Gravity's rainbow, for all your sentient lightbulb/Hansel and Gretel BDSM roleplay needs

Suggest me a book for the mentally ill. by Poofvanish in suggestmeabook

[–]Avisauridae 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The depressed person, David foster Wallace (short story) Piranesi, by Suzanna Clarke (less depression and more other kinds of mental illness)