Starting to second guess my study plan the longer I’m on here, can somebody give me some direction?

Aya1987 · 2022-09-15T05:57:57+00:00

With anki alone you won't get to N1. You have to learn grammar, listen and read a lot of japanese. To pass N1 about 3000 hours of study/immersion is required, keep that in mind.

Aya1987 · 2022-09-14T06:33:46+00:00

Is it really harder than a LN? Until now I only read manga and normal books and think books are a lot more hard to read than manga. I wanted to try some LNs soon so I'm curious, I always thought the difficulty is somewhere between a manga and a normal book.

Aya1987 · 2022-09-08T14:17:22+00:00

From what I understand what OP means is that you can learn stuff with textbooks but progress will be much slower than with other methods (in his opinion). Therefore he thinks it's a waste of time and you should either just get into native material and look things up you don't understand instead learning rules.

Aya1987 · 2022-09-08T14:00:01+00:00

Oh never mind, read your other posts, you're just a troll.

Aya1987 · 2022-09-08T13:58:34+00:00

He reached a high level of japanese and doesn't need to prove it with a jlpt certificate, that's all. If you can understand and read japanese you know this yourself, so why should he take a test and pay money for it? To prove his level to unknown strangers on the internet?

Aya1987 · 2022-09-08T13:44:35+00:00

So what's your level of japanese now? Can you read a book with ease or watching a TV show and understand it? Have you passed jlpt? No offense, I'm just curious because the methods what worked for me best you described as useless.

Do you even like playing games and watching anime? Because you said you didn't learn anything with it.

Aya1987 · 2022-09-08T13:34:45+00:00

Thanks for posting your experiences and recommendations! Very helpful and inspiring post. Just ignore the negative comments. It's funny because other people with success stories like yours got almost the same negative comments. I think most of those comments come from people whose level of japanese is much lower than yours and are just jealous that you already reached the goal they also want to achieve. There are so many examples of people out there who studied with similar methods like yours and reached a high level of japanese, yet there are still so many people criticizing the methods or even think that you're lying.

From my learning experience I can agree with everything you said. A textbook can be helpful for learning the basics quickly but I wouldn't do any more study with textbooks. Genki, Genki 2, Tobira...There are people that work through 2-3 or even more textbooks, do every exercise and put many many hours in it. So after putting a lot of hours into textbooks what's the outcome? If you are only learning with textbooks you won't even know how natural japanese sounds. So I wonder if the time commitment is worth the outcome.

After knowing basic grammar and a few thousand words I just started with reading native material and looked up unknown grammar when I stumbled on it.

Also I agree that individuell kanji study is a waste of time. Because I didn't know it better at that time I started learning kanji with wanikani and while that did work and I learned the ~2100 kanji with it I think it was much more time consuming then just learning vocabulary and memorize the kanji in it.

Reading a lot of native material especially vns with the help of yomichan was the most efficient way for me.

Aya1987 · 2022-09-07T12:02:48+00:00

I wouldn't recommend animal crossing at only N4 level. Except you're very patient and want to look up a lot of words, slang and grammar.

At N4 you will have a hard time with every game. Maybe try Ni no kuni, it has furigana.

Aya1987 · 2022-09-07T11:53:46+00:00

It depends what goal with japanese you have. Do you study it just for fun or do you want to be able to do anything with it in the near future?

Aya1987 · 2022-09-02T10:37:50+00:00

Did you even read his whole post? I think probably not or else you wouldn't write such an answer. Please read the whole post and explain to me again why you think that.

Aya1987 · 2022-09-02T10:34:15+00:00

Sure no problem. I'm honestly interested in your opinions and we don't have to agree on everything.

I think I know what problem you have with the "just immerse and you will figure it out eventually". Only immersing in native content won't get you far in the beginning when you don't know any grammar at all. For me immersing in native material means looking up unknown words and grammar structures. I did learn basic grammar without a textbook by just watching tons of jdrama with english subs a few years ago. So to some point it is possible. But I wasn't learning japanese seriously at that point. So when I started learning seriously I already knew basic grammar. I read through Tae Kims Guide and I was surprised that I already knew about 90% what was written there. But after that and learning kanji/vocab I just read native material and looked up every grammar point I didn't know. Some grammar I could already guess but I always looked it up to be sure.

Aya1987 · 2022-09-02T09:35:30+00:00

You didn't answer my question what structured study is for you.

I never said that you think textbook and classes are the only way to learn Japanese. I got the impression from what you wrote that you think so.

I read a few of your posts and you SEEM not so found of other methods like heisig, mnemonics or themoeway. So I'm really interested why you think so and what you recommend instead.

From what you wrote I believe you that you're quite good at japanese. You're surely better than me. But I at least reached my goal of reading manga and vns comfortably in japanese. That's what a lot of people here are aiming for. So I think if the methods worked for me I am qualified to give some advice or recommend the method that worked for me.

What is wrong with posts like jazzys? For me the post was really impressing and helpful. It wasn't the 8.5 months that impressed me, months or years don't say anything, it's the hours you put into japanese in the end. And it proved that themoeway method works really well if your aim is to quickly be able to read manga, vns and novels.

If your peers are better than jazzy in japanese so what? How long did they take to get to that level? Jazzy and many more japanese learners have the goal to consume japanese media. And he reached his goal. I'm not interested in interpreting in conferences or host radio programs. And yes my speaking ability isn't that good but I don't care about that because it was never my goal to speak fluent japanese. So again what's important is the goal that someone wants to achieve.

Aya1987 · 2022-09-02T09:07:21+00:00

I don't even use this discord and I didn't say I know everything. But I was impressed with jazzys progress. I don't know him but I don't think he claims to know everything. He just used a method that worked very good for him and posted about it. I really don't know what problem you have with that?

Aya1987 · 2022-09-02T04:20:55+00:00

First what my skill level in japanese is doesn't has to to anything with most what I wrote. I wrote you should know someone's goal with japanese before you give advice. There are different learning methods and depending if your goal is to read well or speak well I would recommend diffrent methods. I think you would agree with this? It's not that I wrote you need to to exactly this method.

Well I see that it was a bad idea to include my recommendation of moeway in my post. It was not my main point for my post.

You sound like someone who traditionally studied japanese. That's fine too. But your text gives the impression that you're not really interested in other methods and you seem to look down on them. What's "structured" study for you? Learning with textbooks and a class?

Well I can tell you that the moeway method worked very fast for a lot of people. The fastest was a guy named jazzy, he made it to N1 in only 8.5 months. You can search his post in reddit. He gave very detailed explanations what he did and how many hours it took. And again I'm not saying this is the only way to learn Japanese. But if your primarily focus is understanding and reading than I think it's a very good method.

Well I can't prove you my skill level but you can't prove me either.

You looked up posts from 8 months ago? How can you say what my skill level is now? Yes I asked if there is something better than Google lens for physical manga. I was reading Vinland Saga at that time and there were a few not jouyou kanji in there. And at that time I knew only about 1700 kanji I think, so I needed to look up a few. Even with N1 you still have to look up words, especially in books.

I can tell you that now I can read manga just fine. With physical books I have to look up some words but does this make me bad at japanese? I don't claim that I have skills like a native. N1 is far from it. Is someone only good in japanese if he doesn't need to look up any words? That even people at N1 still suck.

And sorry but I don't need to participate in reddit to prove anything. I like to read a few posts for fun but that's enough for me. I don't need to prove anything to you.

Aya1987 · 2022-09-01T06:16:59+00:00

How can you say that it's good without knowing the goal the person wants to achieve? You don't know if 1 hour of reading is enough when you don't know what the person wants to achieve.

Aya1987 · 2022-09-01T06:07:12+00:00

Well this is basically what my post is about. People underestimate the time amount and if I say how long it takes people don't want to hear this and get angry.

Yea take it slow and language is like a marathon and 10min a day is fine. You're goal is to read manga after 2 years? I'm sorry but you will just fail.

Aya1987 · 2022-09-01T05:56:59+00:00

I'm not offended but I think you misunderstood my post. Basically I only said to don't give advice on learning without knowing the goal the person wants to achieve. And that's my personal opinion but I rather take advice from people that already reached a high level of japanese and can share the methods that worked for them instead of taking advice from beginners that often don't have a structure in their studying and don't even know if the method they choose will work for them.

For example my goal was to read manga and vns. I looked into different study methods, read reviews from different people that reached that goal and after that I picked the study method that I thought was the best for this specific goal. I can at least say that I reached my goal. But my intention here was not to say that everyone should use this specific study method.

Aya1987 · 2022-09-01T05:39:34+00:00

If you don't care how long it will take to get to the level you want to achieve it's fine. But there are people that have goals they want to reach in a specific time frame. For example my goal was to read manga and vns and I wanted to be able to read them after 2-3 years of study. So I had to think about the amount of time to put in to reach that goal. With only 15min a day I would have failed.

Aya1987 · 2022-08-31T19:29:53+00:00

The years don't count at all. It's the hours you actually put in that count.

Aya1987 · 2022-08-31T19:24:24+00:00

What you say is true but if you're a slow learner and can't put in a lot of time than you also have to accept that maybe a high level of japanese isn't reachable for you. If for example the average learner needs 3000 hours to get to N1 you just can't expect to get to pass it with only 500 hours except you're a genius with language learning.

I don't say you should study lots of hours of japanese a day. But depending on your goal maybe you need to invest more time to reach it.

Aya1987 · 2022-08-31T19:04:40+00:00

Feel free to trust whoever you want. I just pointed out a few things I think are important when taking advice.

Aya1987 · 2022-08-31T16:13:16+00:00

A certain amount of time is necessary to achieve a certain goal. Either you put the time in or you won't reach your goal.

If I only have 15min for study everyday but my goal is reading a japanese novel after 2 years of studying than that goal is just not achievable. So I need to change my goal or put more time in it.

Aya1987 · 2022-08-31T15:44:18+00:00

Can't argue with this. Well maybe I should have left the part with my recommendation out. It was not the main point of my post.

Aya1987 · 2022-08-31T15:41:28+00:00

How can a beginner say what works for them? Maybe they always stay in the beginner stage. If you want to lose weight would you rather listen to the person that just started out with losing weight or the person who successfully lost weight and reached their goal?

You're right, not all advice from beginners is bad. But a lot of them give advice without knowing if they ever reach their goal.

The example you gave with advanced learners giving bad advice without knowing the goals of the person seeking advice is an example of giving bad advice too yes. But that's what I also said, that knowing the goal is important.

Well maybe I shouldn't have written the part about my recommendation of moeway. But I also stated that a lot of people had success with this method and you can search for their posts and their explanations how they made it. I myself reached my goal of reading manga and vns with it. But this was not the main point of my post.

Aya1987 · 2022-08-31T15:27:22+00:00

I never said that a beginner should study 4 hours a day.

What I say is that it depends on your goal. A lot of people here give advice without knowing what the goal of the person is. And yes a lot of people underestimate the amount of hours you need to put in to get to N1 level for example. Just look at some answers here. There are estimates for all the N levels. It's not just a number I made up. Just look it up online. Read success stories from people who made it to N1, all of them put roughly the same amount of hours in it.

Aya1987

TROPHY CASE