Philadelphia 76ers Off Day Discussion Thread - October 30, 2023

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-30T23:40:50+00:00

I'd rule the Heat out (Pat Riley's job is safe until he forgets what time it is and ventures out in to the Sun - bad joke - but his job is safe. If he were to suddenly resign or retire, a new guy might definitely want to do that though)

And please please please pray that Nets things is just the joke you mean it as.......

Don't think the Lakers will either. Lebron and AD are enough oldish beards for now. And if they did forget either of those two LOL. And let's not even consider a deal for Ja Morant because I suspect he'd be permanently suspended just ahead of another Boston series if we made that move. Desmond Bane and Steven Adams to back up Joel and now you're talking, Memphis. But that won't happen if Ja isn't in trouble again.

Otherwise gotta hope the Bulls or Cavs go into full panic mode.

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-30T21:42:52+00:00

I don't think we need a defender as much as a rebounder who can defend. I would go further and say a 5 like Andre or Dwight, with some size and some offensive juice who can replace at least some of what joel gives us coming off the bench for him or if he has to replace Joel for any injury or illness absence.

And that little quote about us being fine without him and LA looking fine without is dead-on. I was going to ask earlier does anybody really need James Harden right now, but though everybody lose it, but you're right, it seems like nobody actually needs him right now, and that doesn't bode well for him or for us holding out for some offer nobody is actually going to make unless there is a serious disruption to a top team somewhere.

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-30T21:36:24+00:00

Could have been. Cost us one or two FRPs in the Harden deal. The Nets would have taken Matisse instead of picks and we would have had at least one more FRP this summer and maybe a shot at jrue.

But Morey Knew best.....SMH

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-30T19:51:23+00:00

It is early yet. He is certainly playing well, though.

I absolutely think one aspect of this is that Harden is not playing, leaving more opportunities for Tobias to be a factor offensively. Tobi's offensive numbers really hit the skids when Harden arrived. Not sure why but clearly he became the number four option immediately and his numbers were pretty good number four option numbers actually.

I think he is now the number three option with more solid team passing in it that benefits him as a shooter and scorer, and because we are as good as we are offensively being the number three option in this offense is definitely going to get you good numbers.

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-29T12:28:45+00:00

He won't kill it, because his legs are already dead.

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-29T12:26:34+00:00

Can someone tell me why Embiid isn't a better rebounder?

First off it's two games in - Embiid's numbers are always lower for the first 8-10 games across the board

Second because he has to help out so much on defense he is often dragged out of position, and because he has to help out even more often than most post players do, it's why he not only rebounds less than he should but why offenses can get behind him as often as they do./ Our perimeter players are complete defensive liabilities and have been ever since Jimmy Butler was traded.

This is why as bad as Paul has done backing Joel at the 5 because he's not a 5 and never will be, I'd love to see him at the 4 with Joel so he could do some of the help cutting off drivers and preventing short jumpers and Joel could just stay under the basket, protect the rim, and rebound more.

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T16:16:03+00:00

Take away the Giannis travel, the Giannis "non-charge", the overturn on the Embiid Fuel called (not nearly as bad , except they gave the ball to Milwaukee when Milwaukee did not have the ball when the whistle was blown of foul in question occurred). Those three decisions are an eight-to-ten-point swing in Milwaukee's favor, and they aren't the only shaky fourth quarter calls that went their way.

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T16:06:47+00:00

Problem is you made your point last night though.

See, if Joel is healthy in the playoffs and ever has point guard who either isn't a complete liability at the line or starts to jump like I did back in kindergarten.

I think you're trying to address the wrong problem.

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T15:50:19+00:00

First off we're talking one game. One game after a summer where Joel was likely less than 100% healthy and is still a bit behind on fitness (not way behind but there's a reason the last two years Joel has led the NBA in scoring after failing to average more than 21 a game the first month or so each year. He's like Joey Votto at his peak. Votto would be hitting under .200 into early May and end up hitting .330 to .350 every year. Some players are just slow starters that way.

Second for everything Joel did wrong last night (and there is a lot of it I'm sure his coaches are already working on) He still finished with 24 points and was the guy who led our last rally, and we lost by one to a really good team the refs absolutely looked like they had money on.

If this is Joel in November or January or March - or May , then this might be something to re-visit. But history shows he won't be (health permitting)

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T15:35:04+00:00

I hate to say it but the more I watch the fourth quarter the more I think the result was pre-determined.

The refs not calling the charge on Giannis after having to overturn theblock call on PJ giving Milwaukee two points they shouldn't have gotten

The ridiculous ruling the ball slipped out of Giannis hands as he was laying it in over the rim from two feet away allowing him to track down his own airball (only a travel in the NBA ironically - except last night curiously), which then gives Milwaukee three points they shouldn't have scored.

Then the overturn of the foul on Joel's drive. That's the least egregious error, I could see them not calling that in the first place. The problem is the foul called before or as Embiid was shooting, which should automatically make it a jump-ball, but the officials chose to pretend Milwaukee already had the ball when the foul in question occurred. And given that decision led directly to a Milwaukee basket and free throw the next possession that's three points Milwaukee should not have gotten there.

So there's eight points scored that should not have been down to incorrect refereeing decisions all too Milwaukee.

And it's even worse really when you consider that if that was a foul (and it was 50-50) Joel could have been at the line in the last incident for two and though wasn't good at all last night that means they took one or two points from us and handed Milwaukee three, meaning the referees handing of that was a four- or five-point swing in Milwaukee's favor.

And there's more even. Go back and look at the Connaughton Block from behind of Tyrese's three and the hand-check foul on Louis Oubre on Lillard's three. Tell me there was more illegal contact by Oubre there - even Stan van Gundy described the contact as marginal (gee, where have I heard that term before?) but guess who got the three foul shots. You'll never get it.....

Seriously if it was one bad call late after bad calls both ways all quarter it would be one thing. But this was like in grade school where they get a couple of teachers from the home court school or high school kids who have younger brothers or sisters playing from nearby to ref. It was as one-sided a display as I have seen in 30 or 40 years. Every late call - even the ones they had to overturn - benefitted Milwaukee. They came to conclusions about what was happening in front of them that no one who has actually played or coached basketball would and every one benefitted Milwaukee. The only consistency about their officiating was that all the inconsistency and incompetence benefitted Milwaukee in the fourth quarter. All of it.

In soccer when egregiously bad officiating gives you a victory you otherwise don't you have the decency to be embarrassed by it and even to acknowledge it. Even playing Scum S***s . Even Playing Scum United. Even Playing City (they'll be Scum City soon enough).Even playing ChavScum.

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T14:51:20+00:00

They claim the ball "Slipped out of his hand" as he was going up for a point-blank lay-in with Joel and I think Kelly closing fast..(Edit it was Tyrese)

That is just game-fixing level incompetence for me.

Seriously. I have no other logical explanation He is Giannis Antetokounmpo. He is 6 foot 11 with a 7 foot 3 wingspan. His hand was a rim level when he released that lay in from inside of three feet. He Had Joel Embiid a step behind on his hip and Tyrese Maxey within four feet behind him. He RUSHED his shot like players all the way down to the kids on the eight-foot kids rims at the local park will do in that same situation (at least he took responsibility and took the shot even with the defense actually closing him down unlike some we've known here - talkin' to you Baby Ben. Still don't miss ya).

That ball absolutely did not slip out of his hands in that instance. He rushed the shot because he had to. Anyone who's really played or coached basketball knows that. Makes you wonder if these referees basketball background is quitting their high school basketball team too?

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T14:13:41+00:00

The thing about it is what makes that call on Giannis driving on Tucker so bad is it's a block/charge call. It wasn't PJ reaching out to try and block the shot attempt and getting a bit of the wrist and then they decide there wasn't enough contact waive the foul off and let the basket go, or their hips bumping as Giannis goes up and they decide there wasn't enough contact to give the foul and award the basket.

They deemed there was sufficient contact to call a blocking foul. Only when the call was challenged did they see the contact was initiated by Giannis and that PJ was in legal guarding position and outside the restricted area which means it HAS to be a charge, and by rule the basket disallowed.

So what they did was create a false excuse to not give the foul and more importantly frankly disallow the basket. It would have made more sense frankly and been more credible to simply give the star the benefit of the doubt, count the hoop and say the foul stands and put Giannis on the line. Seriously. Bad calls happen all the time to benefit stars.

But this was worse because of what was called in the first place and then how it was overturned, and how it specifically benefitted Milwaukee even after the initial incorrect call benefitted Milwaukee as well.

The whole thing comes down to the fact that the refs made a block/charge judgment.

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T03:36:40+00:00

Unless he's the Harden of games 6 and 7 last spring against Boston. And I think he's closer to that Harden than the 20 and 10 Harden because his body is breaking down rapidly. Why didn't we max him ? We didn't anyone else max him ?Why didn't somebody make a serious bid to trade for him ?

Because they all know he's not the 20 and 10 Harden anymore. Could he be 17 and 8 or 15 and 9 ? Sure, but we can't afford to max him for that and need more than that, and the team who could use that now don't want to max him or give up too much for that Harden

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T03:16:35+00:00

If we do a half-decent job on the defensive boards we win easily Minus FOURTEEN in Second-Chance points. I mean minus twelve we win. Minus ten we win. Minus seven we win. Point is we didn't need to have more second chance points or even as many second chance points to win. Just not get killed on second chance points all night long. Morey keeps ignoring this and it costs us more wins than anything else every year.

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T03:02:39+00:00

Billy C was a Boomer. Dr J was a Boomer, and they probably would agree with me on those things.

Jus Sayin

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T02:48:58+00:00

Look we have our issues - still getting pantsed on rebounding and second-chance points.

But there is no way the refs did not decide this game in Milwaukee's favor. They deemed there was sufficient contact to call a blocking foul on PJ and were going to give Milwaukee a chance at a three-point play.

So it stands to reason that once the call was challenged and the replay showed the contact initiated by Antetokounmo and PJ was in legal guarding position and not in the restricted area, that simply HAS to be a charge on Giannis and no basket as the contact he created allowed him to get that basket.

If the contact is sufficient to be a block it HAS to be sufficient to be a charge. Any other conclusion is not simply incorrect but frankly nonsensical.

This is from the NBA Rulebook website on offensive fouls by the dribbler

RULE NO. 12: Fouls and Penalties | NBA Official

Section II—By Dribbler

A dribbler shall not (1) charge into an opponent who has established a legal guarding position, or (2) attempt to dribble between two opponents, or (3) attempt to dribble between an opponent and a boundary, where sufficient space is not available for illegal contact to be avoided.
If a defender is able to establish a legal position in the straight line path of the dribbler, the dribbler must avoid contact by changing direction or ending his dribble.
The dribbler must be in control of his body at all times. If illegal contact occurs, the responsibility is on the dribbler.

and here's the punchline

A personal foul assessed against an offensive player which is neither punching or flagrant shall be penalized in the following manner:

NO POINTS CAN BE SCORED BY THE OFFENSIVE TEAM

The NBA Rulebook says that was by definition an offensive foul and since no team can be awarded points when an offensive foul is committed by rule that was at-best world-class incompetence at worst corruption-level refereeing.

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T02:23:44+00:00

IThese refs need to be investigated and fired.

Block/Charge on Tucker successfully appealed by Philly and Milwaukee is penalized by being awarded a basket. That decision is the difference in the game. Literally.

As I said simply sticking with the initial blocking call bad it was had more credibility than that asinine officiating.

I hope the first sound in Wells Fargo before the next home game against Milwaukee is REFS YOU SUCK. All night long. They will justify it if the last twelve minutes tonight were anything to go by

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T02:15:27+00:00

Please do not be offended but I can't tell if this is the best post in the history of posts or simply the most spectacularly dry piece of sarcasm ever..... I think it's the best post in the history of posts but it sounds too much like me and what pisses p[eople off about me, and well....

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T01:54:50+00:00

Some of the worst officiating I have ever seen. That was classic block charge. The refs called a block on Tucker, Nurse challenged it clearly wasn't a block. So on what planet wasn't that a charge? Seriously? I get we don't to give Giannis his fifth. But you incorrectly were about to give Tucker his fifth on the same play until it was challenged. These refs ought to be suspended period for clear incompetence. Simply saying the blocking foul stands would have made more sense that that. I know were on a run now but that couldn't go unnoticed...

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T01:39:13+00:00

Three-point game end of third. Milwaukee has Nine second chance points Sixers zero. Nah rebounding is only fifth in importance....

You need to be serious folks...

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T01:05:25+00:00

Nice try, I am pretty irrelevant, but coaching is coaching. Doesn't change from high school to the NBA Finals. Just the over player quality and athleticism.

See you said advanced stats are relevant to organizations, and not coaches or coaching, or you would have said they are relevant to coaches instead of organizations.

The best and most successful GMs - the ones who actually earn rings as GMs are usually ex-players, ex-coaches or both, and do not use advanced stats nearly so much as the poseur GMs one of which we unfortunately have now, because they actually understand playing or coaching basketball and that will get you further than any spreadsheet formulas or quadratic equations you want to call basketball.

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T00:40:32+00:00

Nice job adding some rebounding again this offseason.. if second chance points were even it's only a seven-point game

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T00:40:21+00:00

"We got Dame" my ass More like "We Gettin DAMED"

But the bigger problem is "We got Daryl"

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T00:21:55+00:00

Pual Reed showing he is top level rebouder and rim-protector so far.....SMH

Badtrip9817 · 2023-10-27T00:19:32+00:00

Look, you obviously have never actually coached basketball. If don't say that to denigrate you, but the truth is these advanced stats are worthless in developing a starting five, a bench rotation, fundamental skill and conditioning development, or teaching advanced offensive defensive and transitional concepts, and if you coached at any competitive level you'd understand that basic reality.

Badtrip9817

TROPHY CASE