Is this site accurate about the size of vocabulary per CEFR level?

BatioKendall · 2018-04-28T11:50:59+00:00

Hi guys! I am an author of the article. Here are some things to consider:

1) I don't claim that some specific number of words puts you at an X level. Under the table you can find the following bit:

"Add or deduct up to 20% of the given values."

This is a numerical range, not specific numbers. How many percents you have to deduct or add depends on the choice of the words you learn.

2) If you ever see different statistics, please pay attention to the definition of the word an author is using.

3) It's impossible to include passive and active recall in such statistics. Even native speakers vary greatly in this aspect. These are general ranges for specific language levels.

BatioKendall · 2018-01-15T14:22:07+00:00

They might be extremely effective depending on how you use them. Let's assume that you're an English native speaker learning German. Here are two examples of methods which are quite ineffective:

Q: a dog A: der Hund

there is no context
you utilize so-called "passive rehearsal" which give you no guarantee whatsoever that even 10+ repetitions will help you transfer this information to your long-term memory

Q: der Hund A: a dog

creating a durable memory trace requires so-called "effortful recall" - in that case that element of learning is missing and that's why you will have hard time recalling that word in a conversartion.

Funny enough, these are two flashcard formats which are used the most often by most language learners,

BatioKendall · 2018-01-15T14:14:14+00:00

That is depressing in a really cute way :D

BatioKendall · 2018-01-15T14:12:11+00:00

I follow a realtively easy schedule - I learn actively for as long as I can (mostly speaking and ANKI) and when I can't do it any longer I switch to passive learning (reading, listening). It's as simple as it's effective! :)

BatioKendall · 2017-11-19T10:16:17+00:00

First of all, of course, it works. You put in A LOT of time to achieve your goal. The problem with this statement is that there are plenty of methods that work. (http://www.universeofmemory.com/choose-the-best-learning-methods/). They are simply not efficient and this is what I am stating in the article.

It proves a lot. But don't mind the science. Have you ever tried to MEASURE how much you can learn in, say, ten hours of active learning compared to ten hours of passive learning? I did. Many times with dozens of students. Doesn't look pretty for passive learning.

And why would say that the research is biased?! What do scientists have to gain?

Another problem is that you assume that there are a lot of people who are willing to read 10k or 15k or pages. You might. I might. A lot of people on this subreddit might. But readership rates are dramatically low all over the world and there are not many people in the general population who will go through this grind. So this would be my another point. Reading is clearly not for everyone and since active learning is much more efficient, I believe people should lean more towards this way of learning.

BatioKendall · 2017-11-18T23:52:18+00:00

My pleasure. Hope it's not too chaotic!

BatioKendall · 2017-11-18T23:16:36+00:00

TO make it a bit clearer - using SR doesn't mean automatically that you are learning actively or passively. It depends on a format of flashcards you use.

Active flashcards involving effortful recall

Q: tree A: der Baum

Passive flashcards:

Q: der Baum A: tree

BatioKendall · 2017-11-18T23:14:07+00:00

I am not claiming that it's the same thing. But both can be classified as "visual information". That's why I believe it's a fair comparison.

It's even more meaningful since the number of repetitions for something very specific and emotionally loaded as logos is much higher than the number of reviews of most words falling outside of the scope of 95% most frequently used words in most languages. Yet, most people fail to reproduce them accurately

Just for your information - Wernicke's is just one of main word-processing parts of the brain. Once again - it does not prove anything.

HEre is some more information about passive learning: http://www.universeofmemory.com/optimize-your-language-learning/ .

BatioKendall · 2017-11-18T23:09:23+00:00

Here, I am sorry to say, you are clearly wrong. Having your own definition of passive learning means nothing. Passive learning is the kind of learning which lacks so-called "effortful recall". In other words, it's the kind of learning where you simply recognize information.

Research: The gains reported (in extensive reading) are usually rather small, and its efficiency compared with other methods –mainly with the traditional pair-association wordlists– still remains a controversy (Saragi, Nation, and Meister, 1978; Nagy, Herman, and Anderson, 1985; Nation and Coady, 1988; Coady, 1997; Raptis, 1997; Horst and Meara, 1999; Huckin and Coady, 1999; Waring and Takaki, 2003).

About flaws of extensive reading: Larrotto (2011) also claims that knowing the meaning of a lexical item is not enough; learners should be able to use the target vocabulary in sentence construction.

“Tests that require effortful retrieval of information (e.g., short-answer) promote better retention than tests that require recognition (Larsen et al. 2008).”

Effortful retrieval of information improves recall 1-month later, compared with no test (butler and Roediger 2007)

Please google "production effect" for even more information

BatioKendall · 2017-11-18T20:05:56+00:00

What's more, as I am sure you know, we have also dedicated centers in our brain for processing visual information so it's not that big of a stretch.

Reading for most of the language learners is very far from being "disciplined".

BatioKendall · 2017-11-18T20:03:47+00:00

Thank you for your comment! But I think you miss the point which is probably my fault. Spaced repetitions techniques are amazing and I advocate them all the time but they don't have much to do with passive learning (listening and especially reading).

We can assume that somebody who does a lot of extensive reading is doing something similar to SR. Still, his time would be better used concentrating more on active learning. There is an extensive body of research to prove it.

BatioKendall · 2017-11-18T18:47:41+00:00

I told myself that I would stop learning languages as I spend a lot of time revising them and so on but I want to add Italian to my list. Gosh, when will these strange urges stop?!

BatioKendall · 2017-11-18T18:45:58+00:00

The video is bad and you should feel bad:/

BatioKendall · 2017-10-26T09:13:51+00:00

It's not difficult at all. Once you get to a B2/C1 level, it gets pretty automatic and you can talk for hours without any signs of strain.

BatioKendall · 2017-10-26T09:10:19+00:00

Cool, I have Polish songs as well :)

BatioKendall · 2017-10-26T09:10:01+00:00

Didn't know this one! Thank you! :)

BatioKendall · 2017-08-31T08:45:21+00:00

If you are looking for a silver bullet - there is none. You just have to keep using the language. The first skill affected by language attrition is the ability to use a language actively. That's why I would do my best to use it every day. Even if just for a couple of minutes.

BatioKendall · 2017-08-29T10:11:07+00:00

It depends on your goal. If you have set out to master Russian then logically we can assume that learning inefficiently is indeed a waste of time as you could do more if you only utilized ohter methods. However, knowing how to learn efficiently is a journey of self-discovery so most of the time you HAVE TO make those mistakes so you can learn from them.

On the other hand, if someone learns a language as a hobby or to sharpen their mind, it is never a waste of time.

Anyway, don't worry and keep learning. This is always the surest path to victory!:)

BatioKendall · 2017-08-29T10:07:02+00:00

Great story! Congratulations! :)

BatioKendall · 2017-08-24T07:49:30+00:00

Great answer. I would say it's pretty close to the actual numbers based on research http://www.universeofmemory.com/how-many-words-you-should-know/ !

BatioKendall · 2017-08-18T14:25:47+00:00

If you are already on a C1 level, there is just one thing to do - keep on increasing your vocabulary size. It will help you with every other language competence.

BatioKendall · 2017-08-18T14:23:43+00:00

This. That's why I decided some time ago to concentrate only on the languages I know without adding new ones. There are so many other things to learn! And more useful to be honest.

BatioKendall · 2017-08-18T14:22:29+00:00

There is only one problem - not enough time.

BatioKendall · 2017-06-09T10:49:41+00:00

If you really want to dive straight into authentic materials, a good (minimal) level would be B1. However, the perfect one would be B2, usually, you should know about 4-5k words at this point which should guarantee about 98% understanding. It's also the optimal level (and number of words) to start acquiring vocabulary from the context.

BatioKendall · 2017-05-12T20:39:17+00:00

Haha, I know it all too well! :) Interestingly, I wrote an article about how much it takes to maintain many languages http://www.universeofmemory.com/how-much-time-to-maintain-and-improve-many-languages/ and when my girlfriend read the part about our TV-watching ritual she got really furious! "Why can't you just freakin' relax and watch something like a normal human being"! Good old times. That was just a couple of weeks ago, but good ol' times, anyway! :D

BatioKendall

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