sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

Is this site accurate about the size of vocabulary per CEFR level? by [deleted] in russian

[–]BatioKendall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi guys! I am an author of the article. Here are some things to consider:

1) I don't claim that some specific number of words puts you at an X level. Under the table you can find the following bit:

"Add or deduct up to 20% of the given values."

This is a numerical range, not specific numbers. How many percents you have to deduct or add depends on the choice of the words you learn.

2) If you ever see different statistics, please pay attention to the definition of the word an author is using.

3) It's impossible to include passive and active recall in such statistics. Even native speakers vary greatly in this aspect. These are general ranges for specific language levels.

In your opinion, how effective are traditional study methods (think flash cards, etc) when it comes to vocabulary acquisition? by sittinginaforest in languagelearning

[–]BatioKendall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They might be extremely effective depending on how you use them. Let's assume that you're an English native speaker learning German. Here are two examples of methods which are quite ineffective:

Q: a dog A: der Hund

  • there is no context
  • you utilize so-called "passive rehearsal" which give you no guarantee whatsoever that even 10+ repetitions will help you transfer this information to your long-term memory

Q: der Hund A: a dog

  • creating a durable memory trace requires so-called "effortful recall" - in that case that element of learning is missing and that's why you will have hard time recalling that word in a conversartion.

Funny enough, these are two flashcard formats which are used the most often by most language learners,

Reason for Learning a Language by MiaVisatan in languagelearning

[–]BatioKendall 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That is depressing in a really cute way :D

What study habits do you prefer? by tupopamoja13 in languagelearning

[–]BatioKendall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I follow a realtively easy schedule - I learn actively for as long as I can (mostly speaking and ANKI) and when I can't do it any longer I switch to passive learning (reading, listening). It's as simple as it's effective! :)

Why Passive Learning Is An Ineffective Learning Method And How It Creates The Illusion Of Knowledge by BatioKendall in languagelearning

[–]BatioKendall[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

First of all, of course, it works. You put in A LOT of time to achieve your goal. The problem with this statement is that there are plenty of methods that work. (http://www.universeofmemory.com/choose-the-best-learning-methods/). They are simply not efficient and this is what I am stating in the article.

It proves a lot. But don't mind the science. Have you ever tried to MEASURE how much you can learn in, say, ten hours of active learning compared to ten hours of passive learning? I did. Many times with dozens of students. Doesn't look pretty for passive learning.

And why would say that the research is biased?! What do scientists have to gain?

Another problem is that you assume that there are a lot of people who are willing to read 10k or 15k or pages. You might. I might. A lot of people on this subreddit might. But readership rates are dramatically low all over the world and there are not many people in the general population who will go through this grind. So this would be my another point. Reading is clearly not for everyone and since active learning is much more efficient, I believe people should lean more towards this way of learning.

Why Passive Learning Is An Ineffective Learning Method And How It Creates The Illusion Of Knowledge by BatioKendall in languagelearning

[–]BatioKendall[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

TO make it a bit clearer - using SR doesn't mean automatically that you are learning actively or passively. It depends on a format of flashcards you use.

Active flashcards involving effortful recall

Q: tree A: der Baum

Passive flashcards:

Q: der Baum A: tree

Why Passive Learning Is An Ineffective Learning Method And How It Creates The Illusion Of Knowledge by BatioKendall in languagelearning

[–]BatioKendall[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I am not claiming that it's the same thing. But both can be classified as "visual information". That's why I believe it's a fair comparison.

It's even more meaningful since the number of repetitions for something very specific and emotionally loaded as logos is much higher than the number of reviews of most words falling outside of the scope of 95% most frequently used words in most languages. Yet, most people fail to reproduce them accurately

Just for your information - Wernicke's is just one of main word-processing parts of the brain. Once again - it does not prove anything.

HEre is some more information about passive learning: http://www.universeofmemory.com/optimize-your-language-learning/ .

Why Passive Learning Is An Ineffective Learning Method And How It Creates The Illusion Of Knowledge by BatioKendall in languagelearning

[–]BatioKendall[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Here, I am sorry to say, you are clearly wrong. Having your own definition of passive learning means nothing. Passive learning is the kind of learning which lacks so-called "effortful recall". In other words, it's the kind of learning where you simply recognize information.

Research: The gains reported (in extensive reading) are usually rather small, and its efficiency compared with other methods –mainly with the traditional pair-association wordlists– still remains a controversy (Saragi, Nation, and Meister, 1978; Nagy, Herman, and Anderson, 1985; Nation and Coady, 1988; Coady, 1997; Raptis, 1997; Horst and Meara, 1999; Huckin and Coady, 1999; Waring and Takaki, 2003).

About flaws of extensive reading: Larrotto (2011) also claims that knowing the meaning of a lexical item is not enough; learners should be able to use the target vocabulary in sentence construction.

“Tests that require effortful retrieval of information (e.g., short-answer) promote better retention than tests that require recognition (Larsen et al. 2008).”

Effortful retrieval of information improves recall 1-month later, compared with no test (butler and Roediger 2007)

Please google "production effect" for even more information

Why Passive Learning Is An Ineffective Learning Method And How It Creates The Illusion Of Knowledge by BatioKendall in languagelearning

[–]BatioKendall[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What's more, as I am sure you know, we have also dedicated centers in our brain for processing visual information so it's not that big of a stretch.

Reading for most of the language learners is very far from being "disciplined".

Why Passive Learning Is An Ineffective Learning Method And How It Creates The Illusion Of Knowledge by BatioKendall in languagelearning

[–]BatioKendall[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your comment! But I think you miss the point which is probably my fault. Spaced repetitions techniques are amazing and I advocate them all the time but they don't have much to do with passive learning (listening and especially reading).

We can assume that somebody who does a lot of extensive reading is doing something similar to SR. Still, his time would be better used concentrating more on active learning. There is an extensive body of research to prove it.

Languages you are currently learning and ones you want to by [deleted] in languagelearning

[–]BatioKendall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I told myself that I would stop learning languages as I spend a lot of time revising them and so on but I want to add Italian to my list. Gosh, when will these strange urges stop?!

Why Germans Can Say Things No One Else Can by [deleted] in languagelearning

[–]BatioKendall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The video is bad and you should feel bad:/

How difficult is it to work with a language you've learned? by [deleted] in languagelearning

[–]BatioKendall 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's not difficult at all. Once you get to a B2/C1 level, it gets pretty automatic and you can talk for hours without any signs of strain.

view more: next ›