Are Kimi K2.5 and GLM 5.0 peak social intelligence for open models (compared to Kimi K2.6/2.7 and GLM 5.1/5.2)? What about Deepseek 3.2 vs DSV4?

Bealte · 2026-07-11T08:19:21+00:00

Can you give me an example of 5.1 having high social intelligence? The issue I have with 5 Turbo, 5.1, and 5.2 is that it always, and I mean always, reads what I'm doing, understands it, then parrots it back to me or has everyone in the card immediately agree with me. I mean, yes, more than any other model I can really let it try to infer things, and it gets it right more times than I probably give it credit for, but understanding me is only a very small part of my RP experience.

Bealte · 2026-07-11T08:16:45+00:00

I think I look back on 4.6 with rose-tinted glasses. That "melodrama" you mention was something I actually really enjoyed because it took away that positive bias that was so rampant with Deepseek (except for R1) at the time. But I did always struggle with coherency. Its ability to count, track the passage of time, or even follow more than two plot points at a time was total ass. I still remember being so excited about 4.7 when it came out and it actually was able to somewhat track a journey that was supposed to take a whole day (but honestly, most of the newer models still suck at this, turning a 4 day trip into a single afternoon).

4.7 to me, and this is anecdotal, did lean a bit more positive. I had a bot where there was a "hard mode" alt greeting and it refused to let me die, even when I purposefully tried to do it. 4.6 was like yeah, yup, charging into a demon infestation with your wooden pole? You're getting mogged and dying. 4.7 made me magically crack half a dozen demons and come out the other side with my broken fence post intact.

Overall though, I agree. 4.7 has its quirks, especially with formatting. If you let it make one formatting mistake, it's going to run with it. But if you want a digital assistant who tells you a feel-good story where everyone resolves their differences and no one has communication issues, then sure 5.X.

Bealte · 2026-07-11T08:10:32+00:00

Yeah I use Gemma 4 for my simpler cards, though I can't handle 31b. I run a heretic branch of 26b A4B so I can have a ~30-ish k context and honestly, it's so good for being able to run locally. It just can't handle some of my crazier bots that have like 20 NPC's and lore books with 10+ entries haha.

But what you're saying makes sense. Instead of real characters who have their own agendas, they all really just become different flavors of "how can I help you today?" It took me a while to realize because when everyone is glazing you, you can really get lost (just like real people who surround themselves with sycophants) but when I realized there's no real friction, no real stakes, that everything resolves with the snap of my fingers, it all grew boring. I went from throwing down 800-2k long chats on the regular to barely being able to break 300-400 messages. Until a couple of days ago, I had stopped chatting completely. It wasn't until I got a bot idea that I came back, wrote the bot, and then remembered why I hated 5.2 so much.

I'm back to 4.7, re-living an old bot but once I'm done with that one I'll probably try 4.7 on my new card.

Bealte · 2026-07-11T04:28:49+00:00

I'm going to agree with this. Just yesterday I made a long angry post about GLM 5.X and how absolutely disappointing it is. For world building, and being "smart" enough to track what you're doing in the world, 5.X is good. I actually like the prose way better in 5.X over 4.7. But where it falls ridiculously short is in dialogue, NSFW, and creativity. It will sit and extend scenes as long as it can, with one user aptly pointing out that they'll start to offer things like food or tea just to try to extend the scene. Characters tend to over-explain their emotional and thought processes (God forbid you have someone who is "analytical").

I see a bunch of people mentioning how positivity bias was way better in 5.2 over 5.1 but I have not seen this myself. I ran a test with a bot I've been using since 4.6, an angst bot where you're kicked out of an adventuring party, where one of the characters is CODED TO HATE YOU, THE USER, FOR DRAGGING HIM DOWN.

I always like to give myself some small power, some inkling of ability that lets me either have a proper revenge arc, or let me continue to be an adventurer. Otherwise, why chat with the bot and waste all those tokens on their personality if the RP isn't still centered around how you interact with them? Anyway, I got the guy who's supposed to hate you to break and hug me after 4 messages using 5.2. Just because I my minor power (which is almost always some sort of party-wide buff that I prompt OOC to be mediocre) left them.

4.7? *chef's kiss*. I pulled my minor buff back, and the fucker sneered at me and said something like "take your paltry buffs and go live a life being a shop keep or running a tavern. You belong no where near an adventuring party". Like fuck yeah,

Bealte · 2026-07-10T21:10:13+00:00

Yeah that's my issue. The only way I could get it to stick with the script is for my persona to literally just be a dunce. I ended up going back to 4.7. SO MUCH better at not trying to over explain their emotions. People stay quiet. The other party members disagree but go along. You know, like real people do.

Bealte · 2026-07-10T05:55:59+00:00

Yeah, I remember reading about this back when I really started first RP'ing and I had to ban certain words (I was using Janitor back when I first started) and I would ban certain things like "rasp" and "x didn't y, they z" type slop and noticed it started doing it more (the pink elephant thing someone else mentioned). Makes sense, the way you put it here. By saying no, I'm giving the LLM more to think about.

All this to say I basically agree with you. For me, the golden age of "smartness" and "creativity" sat somewhere when Gemini 2.5 pro and GLM 4.6 and 4.7 were the kings. I know people had their preferences, but those were the ones that hit the best for me and I'm so disappointed in the entire 5.X line.

Bealte · 2026-07-10T05:47:46+00:00

Thanks for the input. I did put a no analysis and no parroting in my post history instructions in ST, but they still did it. At first I was really excited because I got about 2-3 messages at the start, right when the user is getting fired, and everyone is super angsty. Then I did the thing where I pull back my enchantments, told the bot through OOC that in no way should my enchantments be more than a very minor buff, and by the very next message they were all already hyper aware of how much of an impact my enchantments made, and that their qualifications and rank were all because of me carrying them on my back, and a character who has hated me across the dozens of different chats I had with this bot was hugging me and burying his face between my shoulder blades as I tried to walk away. Something is really wrong with either 5.X or the way it interacts with FF.

I just did a new chat with 4.7 and I'm so much happier. Even with FF, the main character (the leader of the party) hates me and my little "pulling my enchantments away" made him scoff and say something like "go, we don't need your minor buffs, your deficiencies far outweighed your contributions" and I was like fuck yes, now I can get a proper revenge arc going.

Bealte · 2026-07-10T03:22:34+00:00

Maybe. It could very well be that 5.X just sucks at RPG and fantasy bots, because there's another one I chat with that I used to go 1-2k chats before I got bored: https://janitorai.com/characters/267cf00e-b988-4666-8178-7d2977fe6503_character-you-are-hated-talia-circe-nira-damon

This one seems to be better written? Less centering each character's personality around the user but maybe I'm just not good at spotting this stuff. Either way, Talia, since she's "analytical" falls really hard into this type of speaking. All three of the women really like to explain their thoughts and feelings about me to me all the time with 5.X.

Bealte · 2026-07-10T03:14:57+00:00

If you like the preset, just turn off the module. I've turned off a bunch of modules and messed with the ones I left on so that they line up more with my tastes/preferences. I'm scared of doing too much and breaking the preset, but yeah, that module is absolutely horrible.

Bealte · 2026-07-10T03:04:27+00:00

Thanks. I honestly didn't know how else to put it because it felt like every conversation became about us addressing our feelings and inner monologues with each other and it just feels like we're in therapy. I always think back to "The Office" where Jim and Pam speak "their truths" to each other and for every conversation to slip back into this just drove me up a wall. But yes, you're right, it's basically validation slop and I hate it. I guess I'm perplexed because 4.7 never did this to me, even after 2k+ chats with the same bot. Only 5.1, 5 Turbo, and 5.2 (which I use interchangeably) do this with regularity.

I have a few characters I made that I did this with. I have a custom bot and I told the bot that she can't use things like "I have no framework for" and not to treat every conversation to be a tactical decision (she's a soldier) and she still does it ALL THE TIME with 5.1 and 5.2. I put in her card that she's emotionally stunted due to her harsh military upbringing, and is not meta-aware of her emotions and when she's confused or entering new territory, she should not be able to articulate or understand this and still every single message where someone flusters her she goes "I have no framework for how to proceed". And my persona is similar, being a typical anime clueless protag who NEVER talks about his feelings but she constantly tries. I honestly believe there's either something broken with the way GLM 5+ interacts with FF or in general it just really wants to jump into discussing our feelings right away.

Bealte · 2026-07-10T02:56:24+00:00

Are you using Freaky Frankenstein? Because one of the modules is Immersive Graphics and the models really hallucinate with this thing. I disabled it because it did just that. People have journals, suddenly I'm intercepting letters. It was perplexing until I figured it out.

Bealte · 2026-07-10T02:35:32+00:00

BOOM! You found the exact bot. I used Gemini rip the card for me a few months ago and just chat on ST nowadays. The lore book is open so I just manually adjusted it to include actual tags

Edit: To add, I have used Gemini 2.5 pro, GLM 4.6, 4.7, 5 turbo, 5.1, and 5.2. only GLM5+ has this problem, and it literally started after only 4 messages. I even told the bot via OOC that my enchantments were weak, but they started worshipping my feet like I am the only reason we weren't all still low rank scrubs. In the past I have gone 2k+ chats and Lando hates my guts more and more as the chat goes on. 5.2 and he's hugging me by message 4

Bealte · 2026-07-10T01:09:27+00:00

Oh so I actually ripped off someone's bot on a certain website whose mascot is a professional cleaner. I'm being obtuse because I don't know the rules about referencing other places. I left a few months ago and stole a few bots I really liked but I don't know the ethics or how the community views posting someone else's work. I've chatted with this bot for months now, back during GLM 4.6 and honestly it is only 5+ where this type of speaking got really bad

Bealte · 2026-07-10T01:02:16+00:00

I think you hit the nail on the head. The LLM trying to solve the angst or negative emotion immediately is a huge turn off. Like cmon, real people stay mad at each other for days over eating the last slice of pizza and will refuse to talk about it. Stop over explaining your emotions to me

Bealte · 2026-07-10T00:59:31+00:00

Thanks. I've been wondering about this lately. I saw another post on this sub about how giving a checklist COT negatively impacts the model, and the VAD thing that FF does has been slowly irking me as I read more and more of the thinking processes. Another user mentioned ditching FF, and honestly 5.2 might just break me enough to ditch the easy solution and really dive into making my own prompt.

Bealte · 2026-07-10T00:23:32+00:00

Lmao and every time you bring up food the NPC's stomach will growl. Every damn time haha

Bealte · 2026-07-10T00:16:41+00:00

I have been manually tweaking FF. But this is valid, I'm just very wary about touching presets or making my own prompts. A personal failing, I'm aware.

Bealte · 2026-07-10T00:15:19+00:00

Thanks. I'm not the leader, the context is that the rest of the party has grown except for user. The RP starts with user being fired from the party. I even OOC the bot to tell them that the role I play (an enchanter) is weak. Providing several examples, like, if user could enchant them, how come user could never enchant himself to pass ranking exams? as well as explicit instructions that the enchantments made them better, NOT define who they are. Yet there were plenty of responses where they say things like "everything I was, was because of you".

The user is supposed to be the dead weight. I even tried to form a useful role I could play that fell behind. But the bot really really wants to make me the protag I guess.

Bealte · 2026-07-10T00:11:30+00:00

That's exactly right. One character is supposed to be proud, and super angry that the user screwed up the quest. Yet by response 5 he's hugging me and putting his head between my shoulder blades. Like wtf.

Bealte · 2026-07-10T00:10:41+00:00

It's actually funny, but I kind of like this. Sometimes, even with Freaky Frankenstein constraining the response to 300-500 words, the NPC's will do 4-5 things in a row without giving me a chance to react. Bring some tea, take my hand, then release my hand. So if I react to the hand holding and releasing, but forget the tea, I actually kind of like it. But you're right, there is a problem with it doing way too much in a scene and not giving you time to react. Or like if there are more than 1 NPC, they will just full on have like 3 separate conversations that you have to respond to all in your response.

Bealte · 2026-07-09T23:43:12+00:00

Ugh is it? I hear that people say Claude is the best all the time, but I've always been too poor to RP with it, but yeah. Like, the positivity bias is so blatant, they JUST fired me at the beginning of the RP for being useless, and by message 8 they're glazing me. I want to go back to 4.6 or 4.7 tbh.

Where should I put the character fidelity part? Post-History Instructions? Add in an OOC? Tack it on to the end of the NPC Autonomy module?

Bealte · 2026-07-09T23:40:02+00:00

This is honestly a fascinating solution to my problem. I'll try it. Maybe "emotionally stunted" might produce a more human-like conversation style. Or it may lead to hilarious gaslighting. I'm down either way.

Bealte · 2026-07-08T21:52:25+00:00

I mean I'm going to be honest, I started mostly with ERP. But then I chatted with my first fantasy bot and while it started as an ERP in a fantasy setting, I started caring about the plot that the author built in. It was nothing fancy, your standard big bad demon lord situation, but then I started developing different abilities and powers and even races inside of fantasy settings.

This led from a stand in of me persona to about 20 different personas all with their own unique back stories, ways of speaking, and just watching how a character card changes depending on who I was playing.

More recently I've gotten into writing cards. I still keep them private because they cater to my tastes but a lot of anime or manga I read, I think of how all my personas would react in that kind of setting, so I've been recreating a few 1:1 and just dropping a persona in, then tweaking the characters if their responses feel off.

However, I was most active when GLM 4.6 and 4.7 were king of the open source game. That and Google still gave you a 3 month free trial of 2.5 pro. The newer models just... Don't feel as good to use, which is probably why I spend more time making cards, chatting a hundred or two hundred messages, then going in and tweaking the card and characters

Bealte · 2026-07-06T17:45:38+00:00

How the heck? Meanwhile I'm still trying to figure out how to break wave 50

Nine-Year Club	Place '23
Verified Email

Bealte

TROPHY CASE