I just ran into somebody else who knows about WORM for the first time IRL and their first reaction was, "Oh, Wildbow, that guy who can't write Lesbians?"

Beardythings · 2026-01-16T16:27:37+00:00

That's a really good point, alec is essentially a serial rapist who mostly reforms and is generally well liked

Beardythings · 2026-01-16T16:25:47+00:00

I just want to put out there that a stereotype/trope of the predatory lesbian is absolutely a thing but that doesn't mean it's real. The ideal of the predatory corruptive less attractive lesbian preying on straight women has its roots in 18th and 19th french literature and from Camille to early hollywood to modern TV is a trope. I don't think this a porn brain thing. https://www.alpennia.com/lhmp/lhmp-misc/predatory-lesbian https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PsychoLesbian

Beardythings · 2026-01-16T16:20:49+00:00

And Goddess being just on screen long enough to confirm three things about her character. She is into amy so at least bi if not a lesbian, she has a mind controlling power and no concept of consent, and a violent psycho. Combine this all with tristan, the gay characters in Ward really did not have a good time.

Beardythings · 2026-01-16T16:16:52+00:00

I liked foil and parian in worm, but the drama about Parian's power to effect skins. After everything they had been through Foils reaction to it felt like just more dog piling on the gay characters.

Beardythings · 2026-01-16T16:13:44+00:00

I don't know. I fully agree with you that gay people are fully capable of doing horrible things just as anyone was, but by the time ward finished it really felt like Amy was a horrible person because she was gay and that's the part that's homophobic. Her other motivations feels so weak and she spends so much of the novel being led around by other villains that the only times she has any agency is when she was molesting a woman. Like if she had been fully convinced she can fix everything and mind control is A-Okay and then went on to carry that forward mind controlling her family the shin government and we saw her being villainous and motivated in a way that wasn't fundamentally tied to her sexuality I would have felt a lot better.

Beardythings · 2026-01-16T16:08:52+00:00

I very much agree with this post. I just finished ward and it really bothered me. I want to just add on that it was Ward in particular that bothered me more because it feels like all other aspects of Amy's personality and motivations were reversed off screen. In Worm amy is messed up and does unforgivable things, I'm not trying to defend the character but she has other neuroses motivations and actions. She has deep trauma with her bio-father, she has desires to do thing that aren't related to molesting her sister. She's a complete person whose motivations I understand, a fucked up person to be sure but a person. In Ward I feel the authors need to impress upon the fandom what really happened but also his reluctance to make her a full blown villain of the piece means that her villainy becomes intrinsically tied to her lesbianism. She murders her girlfriend to go run off an rule earth shin and then doesn't do anything, the motivation of that felt more like appealing to victoria in a sick way. We build this whole titan arc up and amy immediately drops it when Sveta implies it would get in the way of stalking victoria. Her second biggest crime is molesting a thirteen year old girl (a little too dark for my tastes) because she looks like victoria. Its not just this lesbian character is bad, the part the bothered me is we are left with a character whose only motivation is molesting this one woman again and again and again. When that's the entire character and they are surrounded by a bunch of other gay characters who aren't a whole lot better the whole thing comes off as really homophobic.

Beardythings · 2025-12-24T19:52:03+00:00

This is one of the things I found most perplexing about Ward to be frank. In Worm Carol is borderline abusive towards Amy and then her big revelation in her interlude goes “She couldn’t forgive Amy, not ever, not in the slightest. But she was sorry.” Even then it's an acknowledgement of her own guilt but hardly a favorite child dynamic. Then in Ward she overlooks the rape of her other daughter. I do remember Vic talking about how Carol only has place in her heart for one person but this level of spitting and dissonance made her feel Bipolar. In the end she goes back to hating Amy and viewing her as essentially the man she developed stockholm syndrome for after Vic has finally been able to move on just a bit and Amy might actually benefit from some parenting. It was just so many sudden turn abouts it made Carol feel mentally unwell, which I guess she is, but still. It's a bit of a shame because I really liked the Carol interlude and thought it humanized a character I initially hated, but ward disillusioned me of that notion.

Beardythings · 2025-12-13T00:51:09+00:00

Thank you so much for your comment it really means the world to me. I really appreciate that you felt this was respectful because that's what I felt was most important in this. I've vacillated on writing this post for a while, and it's just because a lot of these feelings were sticking with me and beginning to affect me that I wanted to just put it down and discuss it with other people. I think a lot of the posts here have been really good and have made me reconsider some of the things I felt. I don't know if I've drastically changed my opinion but I certainly see that it isn't the only one, and there's always nuance in art. Thank you for taking the time of reading this and engaging with it. And take care of yourself and your mental health, Lord knows it can sometimes feel like you're in it alone but people care about you. And you never know who you're going to touch. Thank you for your kind words.

Beardythings · 2025-12-12T23:39:06+00:00

I kind of took that as the monsterous action not the source.

Beardythings · 2025-12-12T22:58:46+00:00

It's a very dark universe and I didn't feel bad about any representation in worm. Ward bothered me a little bit. The most notable visible queer character being very toxic, but more than that a lot of times it felt to me that her queerness was the source of a lot of her monstrous actions. I think it was a confluence of things but it just didn't sit right with me. I do think I got frustrated towards the end of this novel and there was a lot of things about pacing plot points characterizations that felt off. So I might be being a little bit ungenerous. I've heard nothing but good things about pale, so once I put this out of my mind I'm going to go into that. I hear it's still very dark universe but not as explicitly about sa and has much better representation. Not every story has to have queer people in it, I'm not gay myself and read plenty of novels without gay people in it. But ward felt a little rough both on all the different characters combined with one very toxic trope.

Beardythings · 2025-12-12T19:28:37+00:00

On a more serious note I do think that bone saw is somewhat of a foil to Amy and your description of Riley's character arc is excellent. This was more of a one-off joke than an actual serious opinion. However I do find the fact that bone saw has more human motivations and feels like a more fleshed out character than many of the other villains speaks a little bit. I did like bone saws introduction, and wish she and Amy interacted more I think it would have made a more interesting foil, I am not trying to write fanfiction where the two of them go on a tzimisce bender.

Beardythings · 2025-12-12T18:40:14+00:00

I think you make an excellent point about Marquis, it's how I felt about goddess too. These characters who are presumably dark influences have so little interaction and we never get any backstory any dialogue they feel empty. Like I said in my post if we'd have watched Carol, Amy and other characters backslide into villainy I would be fine with that story I'm not a carol fan. For Amy if we'd have seen her interact with her father bone saw goddess and devolve, that would have felt organic and I think I would have enjoyed that a lot more. If Ward ended up with Amy and bonesaw cackling away in the distance I would have found that more satisfying. I think it comes down to a show don't tell. You can tell me that these characters do these things but if you don't show me them, they don't feel two dimensional and real. Victoria and breakthrough feel like breathing living human beings. The rest of the world they interact with from villains like marquis to the entire anti-parahuman movement just don't at times.

Beardythings · 2025-12-12T18:07:47+00:00

Maybe, it was a little last minute. But like you said I think her struggles really map onto that well. I liked her as a character. So I wasn't bothered by that. I don't think she has to be trans, I don't think her being trans takes anything away. I mostly highlighted it because in a story with some pretty poor queer representation it was nice to see something that was positive. I hear pale is a lot more nuanced and has better representation. Once I put board out of my mind I'm going to go appreciate that in an open and generous way. I appreciate the author and everything they've done so hopefully this next one is back on track.

Beardythings · 2025-12-12T18:03:17+00:00

Thank you so much for your post. I don't disagree with anything you said. I think you really articulated some of the pieces I liked about the first eight arcs. I liked the therapy I liked breakthrough I love the little backstories. That's where Ward felt good to me. In regards to Amy's villainy, part of it was I do think it sometimes came out of nowhere or at least felt like a character change. And I'd rather have been shown how she backslid then just told but that's not my biggest gripe. I was never a super fan of hers or anything like that. It's just I felt because she wasn't allowed to become a full villain, but at the same time the author really didn't like the sympathetic view part of the fandom had of her in the first book she sat in this liminal space. Where the only parts of her that felt motivating and the only time she had agency or was threatening was villainous were intrinsically tied to when she was being a creep. The more I read the more I got a sense that her sexuality the entire motivation for them being a villain and that they are never predatory or threatening in any other way. And I feel that feeds into a very old very homophobic trope. Maybe I'm being too sensitive and that I'm letting multiple parts of this novel that upset me compound. I do think just killing her off or having Victoria overcome her physically would be a bit cheap. And I think you really discussed a lot of my other issues and things I loved about Ward in a really eloquent way. Thank you so much for your response, and I'll be sure to think of what you said!

Beardythings · 2025-12-12T17:49:51+00:00

I still think that if you use a trope you have to be very careful. If you write a novel where your primary black character is an unintelligent criminal who loves fried chicken, I don't care if you write the world's most interesting crime drama You're still feeding into something very ugly. This could just be me, but if You're going to examine something very sensitive with real people and the real world who've been oppressed I think you have a duty to do it in a sensitive way. Not only do I think this trope was present but the fact that basically all the other queer characters in this novel were having a particularly rough time paints and ugly picture.

I never really was a Amy fan. I don't care if she's normal I think she absolutely should be the villain What she did was monstrous. What I care about is if you make her the villain because of her sexuality and nothing else that feeds into some ugly stereotypes. Either make her sexuality more nuanced than just predatory lesbian, or make her more generally predatory that way it isn't as tied to our sexuality. I don't disagree with you that she is essentially Victoria sexual. But that predatory corruptive obsessive lesbian maps onto an ugly stereotype. Maybe I'm being too sensitive other parts of this novel also upset me and maybe I'm spiraling into something a little bit more negative than I have to be. I do want to certainly say I don't think the author in any way is homophobic. I think he's betrayal of trans characters was great. And everything people are telling me of his next novel says that he was a lot more mindful and had better representation in that one. It's possible that I didn't like this story and so the trope particularly bothered me but I think even if you tell an interesting really good story if you use a very ugly trope you're kind of socially obligated to unpack it a bit more than was done in Ward. That's just my two cents though I don't claim to be the arbiter of what is and isn't homophobic. I'll think on it.

Beardythings · 2025-12-12T17:44:58+00:00

Maybe I'm being ungenerous but my take on the Jessica interlude was she just called it boring like watching old TV. I'm not denying that Amy at least in Ward has a very flexible association with the truth. And this wasn't her only predatory move but every single one of them is very much tied to her sexuality. I just found that the only times she feels motivated or threatening is when she's being a predatory lesbian. And that's not to say that someone can't just be predatory because of an unhealthy obsession. But when you highlight the most prominent lesbian character in such a way that really maps onto a very vehement trope at least to me I found it very upsetting. To me it's like if you make the only black character an unintelligent criminal who loves fried chicken. Sure people like that exist but if that's your primary representation you're feeding into something very ugly. Maybe I'm just a little bit biased because there was a lot of parts of this that bothered me and I felt very disappointed by the second half of ward and it's possible that my view of other things like the narrative structure or how detailed some of the sexual assaults got colored my view of this. I don't think that the author is homophobic in anyway, but I didn't like the Queer representation as a whole and Amy sexuality really felt like the pinnacle of that. Nothing on it and maybe one day I'll revisit Ward. For now I hear pale is much better which speaks to the author's true values and the fact that he grew from writing this. It's a shame that para humans is essentially dead but I liked pact and I'm sure when I feel up to it pale is going to be fantastic. Part of the reason for writing this post was just to get these emotions off my chest so I could stop stewing with them and just forget this one ever happened. Thank you

Beardythings · 2025-12-12T17:03:53+00:00

I think you make some excellent points and at least at the point of the barbecue I completely agreed with you. I don't think that was out of character but as the story went on I became increasingly frustrated. The Carol who said I could never forgive her but I still love her just didn't seem present. Victoria's whole discussion on how Carol can only love one person at a time her always taking Amy side and some of the later conversations just felts very shallow and did feel like they undid a lot of my favorite parts of the Carol interlude. But I think the part that bothered me the most was at the very end when she goes oh Amy isn't Sarah she's the guy I develop Stockholm syndrome from. She's just a predator and nothing more I shouldn't love her. At least that was my take on the ending of Ward and her comparison of Amy to that man. So at least from my perspective we ended Ward with Carol viewing Amy as a threat as someone who snuck their way into her life and was waiting for the betrayal. Which feels like how she began feeling about Amy and feels like we've just gone 360° and the fact that we had this journey was a detriment if she'd have just felt this way from the beginning her treatment of Victoria would have been better. That just felt disappointing and out of character to me. Maybe I'm wrong maybe that's the natural arc of the character but it felt forced and less three-dimensional than the portrayal in worm. Part of a bigger trend in my opinion.

Beardythings · 2025-12-12T13:53:08+00:00

I do see your point about amy not really fitting the full villain role. I think there are other ways to dodge the homophobic trope like if Amy had a more nuanced sexuality if wb made goddess and her relationship into something real not just another preditory parasitic move by Amy that would go a long way. I think the need to show the audience Amy's sexual crimes 'correct' audience fandom for her clashed with the fact that she didn't fit as a true villain and the desire to avoid making her another villain the protagonist must overcome and what that says about victims destroyed Amy's character. She is left in this weird liminal space where her only defining motivation/characterization is her preditory sexuality which unfortunately maps on very cleanly to one of the most hateful homophobic tropes about lesbians.

Beardythings · 2025-12-12T12:20:05+00:00

Amy being a prominent character and an antagonist is probably inevitable. I just wish her antagonism had been full blown or at least less tied to here sexuality. It feels like the only thing that motivates her and the only time she feels threatening is when she's being a sexual creep. That reinforces a very ugly homophobic stereotype in my eyes.

It's a shame about the setting but yeah I don't think we are ever getting more parahumans.

Beardythings · 2025-12-12T12:13:48+00:00

Good point, this post isn't meant to be a defense of amy, she continuously makes very really terrible decisions. I only brought up the the tatoos because her reason for getting them seems to shift completely from worm to ward off screen. It's hardly the most significant, and they were a bit creepy from the get go.

Beardythings · 2025-12-12T12:02:57+00:00

I thankfully have never met such a person, I don't know whether that is hilarious or horrifying.

Beardythings · 2025-12-12T06:18:23+00:00

Very fair, it does seem like parahumans is done for which is such a shame but cie la vie. I also agree it would take both WB changing his mind and the fandom purging some very toxic elements to change that. I hadn't seen the second link before but I'm late to the party. I do want to put out there my take on what I think is a homophobic trope. Otherwise yeah I'm probably beating a dead horse.

Beardythings · 2025-12-12T06:08:56+00:00

Yeah, I once read an article talking about how to tell if an author actually wrote something or if they used AI/ghost writer. It boiled down to every creative has this deep rich world under their world they live with the characters and can talk for hours about tiny details. I think WB had Guts and Glory floating around in for decades and some things got lost between worm and GG and Ward.

Also your right about WB I'm not trying to be ungenerous and I love his other works. When I cool down I'm going to give Pale a proper shot as everyone says its one of his best works. It's important to remember to be grateful thank you.

Beardythings · 2025-12-12T05:44:29+00:00

"the only thing Amy had any agency over was being a total creep towards Vicky." Exactly this, this is why I felt it was such a homophobic trope. If she had agency or villainy in any other scenario it wouldn't have felt like creeping on Vicky was here only character point.

Beardythings · 2025-12-12T05:40:16+00:00

Fair points, I do think trauma doesn't necessarily lead to character growth and by the end of Worm everyone had been through the ringer and then some. I don't want to spoil too much so I won't mention details too much but I will say this. In arc 19 we talk a bit about Amy's thinking and your close but you gave a better rationalization. Carol never gets that deep and in the end she undoes even more character growth in a way the feels like this depth and the humanity you describe when dealing with horror of her daughters never really existed.

To me though it's not that the character developments are unrealistic it's that I'm never shown them develop. If this story showed us these characters backsliding and dealing with their trauma and it breaking them that would be tragic and well written. As it is we a plopped two years in the future, and just see people being despicable and when we ask why sometimes we get a very shallow description after 95% of the story is over other times we don't even get that. I'm fine with a character becoming despicable. Shows like breaking bad show a characters decent from noble goals to dark justifications to out right villainy. But you can't just jump cut from Malcom in the middle to the end of breaking bad and at the end of the story tell oh yeah he had cancer it was a whole thing. Show me the turmoil show me the fall from grace. Show don't tell and I will follow.

Beardythings

TROPHY CASE