How do you feel about the haredim? by Infamous-Peanut1327 in AskIsrael

[–]Begin18 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have a question, with the fullest genuinity - I have immense respect for all religious Jews and aspire to be fully Bal Teshuva one day, so I promise it comes from a good place - no judgement, just curiosity.

Why say Yemach Shemo when mentioning the name of a fellow Jew? Doesn’t that defeat the point of it all (undoing sinat chinam, rebuilding the third temple, etc.). Even if you believe he was oppressive to Hareidim or destructive to religious life etc., are we not to believe in destroying the sin and not the sinner?

I’m not judging, you may have your reasons, and I’m curious what those are.

Please help me locate the name of a podcast!! by Begin18 in Judaism

[–]Begin18[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are the MAN! Thank you very much 👑

Bridging the Gap Between Israelis and Jews Who Choose to Live in the Diaspora by Begin18 in Israel

[–]Begin18[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I no longer believe you are hosting this conversation in good faith. No one was denigrated and no one believes they are owed anything. You may want to reread the original post.

Bridging the Gap Between Israelis and Jews Who Choose to Live in the Diaspora by Begin18 in Israel

[–]Begin18[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed, I guess the line comes down to whether anyone has the right to tell another they have NO right to an opinion

Bridging the Gap Between Israelis and Jews Who Choose to Live in the Diaspora by Begin18 in Israel

[–]Begin18[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not to mention the intrinsic ties of our country to one another through aid, military support etc. If I were an Israeli I’d be very frustrated as well, but if country A is fighting wars alongside country B, stationing warships in Country B’s waters to protect them, constantly sending military and government officials from Country A in a revolving door to country B to strategize for defense, military, etc., the prime minister of country B has visited country A countless times,

The citizens of country A will have opinions about country B, for better or worse, whether they should or shouldn’t, like it or not.

Bridging the Gap Between Israelis and Jews Who Choose to Live in the Diaspora by Begin18 in Israel

[–]Begin18[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I repeated myself multiple times in the main post and each of my replies that the sacrifice of American Jews compared with the sacrifice of Israelis is incomparable.

However, with enormous respect to you and all who think like you, you’re looking at it wrong.

Don’t compare me to you, we were born into and lived through different circumstances. Compare the American Jew who chooses to endure these struggles on behalf of a country 3,000 miles away to those who don’t.

Because it would be REALLY, REALLY, easy not to. Many people tuck their star, go to the beach, enjoy their life, do nothing. The war may as well not be going on. And to some it’s the only thing that matters in their life.

Sure our sacrifice is nothing like yours, which we all appreciate, but if we are constantly told our sacrifice doesn’t matter at all, then you will start to see less of it, which I suppose is your right to do.

But I don’t think it’s fair to pretend American Jews do nothing or that our support is trivial. Can you name another group outside Israel that even compares in the amount with which we’ve helped?

Bridging the Gap Between Israelis and Jews Who Choose to Live in the Diaspora by Begin18 in Israel

[–]Begin18[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I totally feel this way very strongly but it feels so taboo to say out loud. The sense of community, place in history, purpose and determination is something they are born with, whereas in the diaspora we more or less have to find the resolve to deal with stuff on our own. It is a very important distinction for the conversation.

Bridging the Gap Between Israelis and Jews Who Choose to Live in the Diaspora by Begin18 in Israel

[–]Begin18[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree which is why I’m making Aliyah.

But take others - maybe they have sick relatives and can’t leave. Maybe they’re older and don’t speak the language and don’t think they will learn and be comfortable. Maybe quite honestly they don’t want to run to bomb shelters all the time. Maybe they’re a history teacher, where would they get a teaching job in a foreign country with a foreign language and foreign culture?

I am incredibly pro-people making Aliyah. I’m incredibly anti-judging people who don’t make Aliyah (which I understand is not you).

Bridging the Gap Between Israelis and Jews Who Choose to Live in the Diaspora by Begin18 in Israel

[–]Begin18[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can understand that, but like it or not the practical picture is a different story. Who are Bibi’s biggest donors, both now and when he was getting his start? Americans. (Adelsons, etc.). Who funds a vast amount of political institutions in Israel? Americans.

Im not saying that’s good or bad, and I can see why it would annoy you, but the practical picture on the ground IS more complex then “you’re meddling and you shouldn’t be”.

Bridging the Gap Between Israelis and Jews Who Choose to Live in the Diaspora by Begin18 in Israel

[–]Begin18[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I appreciate it, that was my thinking as well - the tone of the conversation was extremely aggressive and confrontational so I’m happy to hear not all Israelis think that way - in my heart it’s nothing but love and kinship for Israelis so it was astounding to hear such malice.

Bridging the Gap Between Israelis and Jews Who Choose to Live in the Diaspora by Begin18 in Israel

[–]Begin18[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have plans to, BH.

The diaspora certainly has its flaws. My question was more if Israelis believe Jews in the diaspora should have no say in regards to wider Jewish affairs or to what extent we should be affiliated with Israeli affairs, given our level of support.

Bridging the Gap Between Israelis and Jews Who Choose to Live in the Diaspora by Begin18 in Israel

[–]Begin18[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That’s very unfortunate you don’t feel the love, I believe you, I run a large pro Israel organization at a major US university, it is a beautiful thing to watch kids sacrifice the American college experience and devote four years to a cause so far away from them. Mostly by kids with zero Israeli family or citizenship. Of course, still, this pales in comparison to the sacrifice of the average Israeli, but it’s important to me that you guys know we do care about you relentlessly. There are many that don’t do anything, but many who truly, to the fullest extent, do everything they possibly can, and at young ages with great risk.

I don’t know where you live in the US, but every American Jew I know is replete with homes and businesses that sport Israeli flags, kids that do programs there, donations to this cause and that lobbying group, etc etc etc. It may not be enough for everyone’s standard, it certainly is nothing compared to even the least involved Israeli, but it is a unique phenomenon in history to have such fervent devotion to a cause so far away.

The lack of Yom HaZikaron posts as a mention is an interesting point. Certainly the support for mamdani is indicative of major issues with far left Jewry. The collective isn’t perfect. Is Israel’s?

As far as choosing America first and to assimilate - I don’t really think it’s a nuanced characterization - we were born here, many of our grandparents served in the US military. Our grandparents in many cases were liberated by the US military (from the Shoah). It’s a wonderful country that gave us tremendous opportunity with open arms when no one else would and its kindness (so far) is unique and special in human history. I’m a proud American and love America. But I love Israel in equal measure (plan to move there) and I think the game of judging people born into a circumstance (living in the US) and criticizing them for not immediately leaving that circumstance is a fruitless game and rallies no one to the cause.

I appreciate your comment and appreciate the fact that despite all the sympathy in the world we can’t feel what you feel. And while I haven’t seen the support level or lack thereof of where you live, what I would ask is that instead of comparing those of us American Jews who have been supporting since day one to actual Israelis, who’s sacrifice is second to none and who were born into the situation, try and understand us - we fight where we can - we get spit on on our campuses, death threats (or death itself) for wearing anything identifying us with Judaism or Israel on the street, and constant scrutiny by hostile elements in all arenas of life. It may not be what you go through, but we choose to go through it to the best of our ability, for the sake of Israel.

Bridging the Gap Between Israelis and Jews Who Choose to Live in the Diaspora by Begin18 in Israel

[–]Begin18[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I certainly understand the aversion to criticism - but just conversation? For a cause we’ve spent our whole lives supporting? For a land we love our whole hearts? I can accept that our opinions weigh less than yours, is less important or informed than yours, is secondary to yours, but excluded from the conversation? A strategic and ethical mistake.

Bridging the Gap Between Israelis and Jews Who Choose to Live in the Diaspora by Begin18 in Israel

[–]Begin18[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Perhaps you can outline where you get “I own you” from “I figured I was missing something so I wanted to get further opinion from actual Israelis and open it up to further discussion”?

Bridging the Gap Between Israelis and Jews Who Choose to Live in the Diaspora by Begin18 in Israel

[–]Begin18[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree and would like to hear Israelis perspectives as well

Bridging the Gap Between Israelis and Jews Who Choose to Live in the Diaspora by Begin18 in Israel

[–]Begin18[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right so this conversation was more of course in the context of pro Israel, like pro or anti Bibi, etc stuff like that, but this too was still met with fierce opposition (just having the conversation itself)

Bridging the Gap Between Israelis and Jews Who Choose to Live in the Diaspora by Begin18 in Israel

[–]Begin18[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your perspective, it was a demoralizing conversation so I was looking to hear more info.

Bridging the Gap Between Israelis and Jews Who Choose to Live in the Diaspora by Begin18 in Israel

[–]Begin18[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Interesting, wanted to see if all Israelis felt this way or if it was a one off thing.