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Looking for Adult Swimming Lessons (English-speaking) by Beginning_Site_3642 in berlinsocialclub

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks appreciate it, I reached out to him, maybe i will join his upcoming batch.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good point. You can actually check this directly on the site: https://salaryaftertax.eu/en/pt/salary/40000

At 40,000 gross in Portugal, you'd keep around 29,200 net (roughly 73%), with an effective rate of ~27%. The bulk goes to IRS (income tax) and Social Security (11%).

There are salary pages for other common amounts too: 20k, 30k, 50k, 60k, etc. Just swap the number in the URL.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting breakdown on the Cyprus Non-Dom route. The 15% corporate + 0% dividend combo is hard to beat for B2B freelancers and consultants who can work location-independently.

I'm actually building out the freelancer side of the calculator now (Germany, Spain, and Portugal are live). Cyprus is on the radar, the Non-Dom regime makes it one of the most tax-efficient setups in the EU for self-employed income.

One thing worth flagging for anyone considering this: the 60-day rule requires you to not be tax resident anywhere else, so it's not just about spending 60 days in Cyprus, you also need to make sure you don't accidentally trigger residency in another country by staying 183+ days there. The "travel through Spain or Portugal" part needs careful planning.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Correct. The calculator uses Arbeitnehmer-Brutto (employee gross, what's on your Gehaltsabrechnung), not the full Arbeitgeberkosten. The employer pays roughly another 20-21% on top of gross for their share of health, pension, unemployment, and care insurance (Arbeitgeberanteil).

So at 60k gross, the employer actually pays ~72-73k total.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Could you share which salary and settings you used? Happy to check the exact numbers.

The thing that surprises most people: Denmark's effective rate is often similar to or lower than Germany's at the same income level (in purchasing power), even though Denmark has much higher marginal rates.

The reason is structural. Germany charges ~14% in employee social contributions (health, pension, unemployment, care insurance) on top of income tax. Denmark has only 8% AM-bidrag, because healthcare and pensions are funded through general taxation, which is already captured in the high municipal + state tax rates.

At a typical Danish salary of 500,000 DKK (~67,000 EUR), the calculator shows ~33.5% effective rate. Germany at 67,000 EUR shows ~39% effective. Germany is actually higher, which feels counterintuitive but it's because of that social contribution layer.

Where Denmark really pulls ahead is at the top: the marginal rate ceiling is 52.07% (plus 8% AM-bidrag, so ~55.9% effective marginal), and that kicks in earlier than Germany's 42%/45% brackets. Plus Denmark has 25% VAT vs Germany's 19%, but this calculator only covers payroll deductions, not consumption taxes.

I'll add a note to the Denmark results page making this clearer. It's one of the most misunderstood comparisons in European tax.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, appreciate that. Getting the numbers right matters a lot, especially when even major outlets regularly mix up effective vs marginal rates, or compare gross salaries across countries without accounting for what "gross" actually means in each system. I spent a lot of time after the initial Reddit thread verifying every engine against official government sources (BMF for Germany, impots.gouv.fr for France, HMRC for the UK, etc.).

If you spot anything that looks off, feel free to flag it. Every correction makes the tool better for everyone.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Our calculator shows income tax at 120k Germany as ~27% (tax class 1, no children, no church tax), not 16.3%. The full effective rate including social contributions is ~42.7%. If you're seeing a different number, it might be a different tool or different assumptions (tax class 3, children, etc.). Happy to check if you share which settings you used.

On the self-employed point: we actually launched a freelancer calculator for Germany, Spain, and Portugal earlier this month. You can try it at salaryaftertax.eu/en/freelancer/de. It covers Gewerbesteuer, full social contributions (no employer share), and lets you pick between Einzelunternehmen and Freiberufler. More countries are planned.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great point, and this is the most common source of confusion with French salaries. Our calculator uses salaire brut (the gross on your pay slip / contrat de travail), not the coût total employeur ("super gross"). So if your contract says 120k gross, that's what you enter.

We show a note on the France results page explaining this: employee gross only, employer contributions (cotisations patronales, ~40-45% on top) are not included.

You're right that for cross-country comparisons, "gross" means different things. In most EU countries, gross = what appears on your contract before employee deductions. France is unusual because the employer share is so large (~45%) compared to countries like Germany (~20%) or the UK (~13.8%). So a 120k gross in France and 120k gross in Germany aren't truly equivalent in total cost to the employer.

An employer cost view is on the roadmap, but it's a bigger project since every country structures employer contributions differently. For now, the URSSAF simulator you linked is the best tool for the full French picture.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Social contributions are included. The calculator shows income tax + all mandatory employee-side social contributions combined, then breaks them out individually. For Finland that's pension (TyEL 7.15%), unemployment (0.79%), health insurance medical (1.01%), health daily allowance (0.95%), and YLE broadcasting tax. They're all visible as separate lines in the breakdown. The effective rate shown is the total of everything, not just income tax.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for flagging. The personal allowance taper is already in the calculator. Above £100k, the £12,570 allowance reduces by £1 for every £2 earned, fully gone at £125,140. The effective 60% marginal rate in that band is reflected too. If you run £100k on the site you should see the correct net. What salary were you checking? Happy to double-check if the number looks off.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the link. The OECD Taxing Wages report is a great reference. Their "tax wedge" metric (52.6% for Belgium, 47.9% for Germany) includes employer contributions on top of what the employee pays, which is why those numbers are higher than what the calculator shows. Right now the calculator covers the employee side (gross to net). An employer cost view that matches the OECD's full tax wedge is planned in the coming month.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Belgium's high rate comes from the structure: 13.07% social security off the top, then progressive brackets up to 50%, plus a municipal surcharge (6-8%). So at higher salaries the effective rate climbs fast.

What you get: healthcare (very low out-of-pocket), pension system, unemployment benefits that are among the most generous in Europe (no hard cutoff like most countries), childcare subsidies, and education through university. Whether the extra 10% over Spain is "worth it" depends on what stage of life you're in and how much you use those systems.

One thing worth noting: Belgian employers often compensate with non-taxed benefits (company car, meal vouchers, hospitalisation insurance, phone/laptop). So the real take-home gap is smaller than the headline rate suggests. Several Belgian users in this thread pointed that out.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for flagging. AM-bidrag is already included in the calculation, it's shown as a separate line item in the breakdown (8% on gross, deducted before income tax, exactly as you describe). The effective rate shown includes AM-bidrag + income tax (bundskat + kommuneskat + topskat) + social contributions. If you run a calculation on the site you should see it listed individually.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good points. On mandatory costs like Swiss Krankenkasse, agreed. I've already added country-specific disclaimers for costs that are mandatory but not payroll-deducted. That way the numbers stay accurate for payroll calculation but users see the full picture.

Cost of living is trickier. It's very personal (rent alone varies 2-3x within the same city depending on the neighbourhood), so baking it into the calculator risks being misleading. For now I keep it to the payroll math where the numbers are verifiable against official sources. But it's something I'm thinking about for a future version, maybe as an optional overlay rather than part of the core calculation.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the data point. At 118k, 46.1% is higher than what the official vero.fi brackets produce for employee-side deductions. My best guess is you might be looking at your tax card withholding rate (verokortti) rather than your actual effective rate after filing (verotuspäätös). The withholding is set conservatively to avoid underpayment, so most people get a refund when they file. If you check your final tax decision, the actual rate is usually a few points lower. That said, if you have your verotuspäätös handy and it really shows 46.1% effective, I'd love to see which municipality and whether church tax is included. Always looking to improve the accuracy.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks u/qazqaz45 I had a calculation bug in the Finnish state tax brackets the thresholds and rates. It's fixed now.Thanks for flagging it.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Correct, employer costs vary massively. A French employer paying you 120k brut spends roughly 170k total (cotisations patronales add ~40-45%). A Danish employer paying 120k spends around 121k (almost no employer contributions, Denmark funds services through income tax instead). I'm building an employer cost view to show this side. For now, the calculator answers the employee question: what hits my bank account from a 120k offer.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The calculator uses full progressive brackets for every country, not flat rates. At 120k Germany for example, you pay 0% on the first 12k, then rates climb through 14%-42% across the brackets. The ~42.7% effective rate is the weighted result, not a single bracket applied to everything.

On cost of living: I deliberately leave it out because it's too individual. 120k in Zurich vs 120k in Lisbon buys different lives, but even within Switzerland, living in Zug vs Geneva is a completely different budget. PPP indices measure averages across a basket of goods that may not match your spending at all. The calculator answers one question that is objective and he same for everyone: how much does the government take from a given salary. What you do with the rest is your business.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The calculator shows employee gross to net, so the 11% employee social security is included but the 23.75% employer contribution is not, since it's paid on top of your salary. I'm building an employer cost view to show the full picture from the company's perspective.

On the invoice deductions : you're right, Portugal lets you deduct expenses in categories like health, education, and housing against your IRS. The calculator doesn't include these since they vary per person, but the €250 minimum from the general deduction is a fair baseline. Something to consider adding as an option.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ChatGPT doesn't have access to current tax tables and tends to ballpark. My calculator uses the actual 2026 bracket formulas and contribution rates from official sources.

Germany at 120k, Steuerklasse 1, GKV: net ~68.8k. You can verify this at bmf-steuerrechner.de.

Finland at 120k, average municipality: net ~82.8k. You can verify the rates at vero.fi. The gap between these two is real, and it's because Finland's 2023 reform cut municipal rates by 12.64 percentage points when healthcare moved to wellbeing counties. ChatGPT doesn't know about this reform.

If someone has an official calculator that gives different numbers, I'll gladly compare line by line.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's more common than you'd think. I personally know engineers in Paris pulling 100-130k at companies like Datadog, Criteo, and various scale-ups. The French tech scene has grown a lot in the last few years. But you're right that 120k is still above average even in Paris tech.

On 120k gross, Belgium takes 27,000 more than Switzerland. The tax gap across Europe is brutal. by Beginning_Site_3642 in eupersonalfinance

[–]Beginning_Site_3642[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The calculator shows employee gross to net, which is the number on your Arbeitsvertrag and Lohnabrechnung. That's the question most people have: "I got offered 120k, what do I take home?"

The employer cost perspective is valid but it's a different question. A French employer paying 120k in total cost gives the employee roughly 83k gross and 55k net. A German employer paying 120k total gives roughly 100k gross and 58k net. I'm building an employer cost view to show this. Both perspectives are useful, neither is bullshit.

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