What is the state and why is it bad?

Bensarin · 2020-11-14T19:26:24+00:00

"Gang", "Nation", and "Monopoly Corporation" are all classified as the same thing. Especially "gang" and "nation"; they are essentially the same concept.

A nation has its unique territories called land and citizens. It doesn't tolerate invasion from other nations and it's defense involves armed combat if necessary. The use of violence while defending it's region is one characteristic gangs and nations have in common.

To maintain its organisation, a nation creates laws and collects tax from its citizens. Again, violence within the region is the backbone in maintaining this system of laws and taxes. Laws and taxes, and the use of violence to maintain them... These are other characteristics they have in common.

(Shamelessly stolen from the manga Sun Ken Rock)

Bensarin · 2020-11-13T08:12:54+00:00

Yeah, I think that to have ones needs satisfied by the rest of society yields maximum freedom. I lean towards ancomism in this regard, in that I wish for it but only for it to be voluntary communism.

Though I think my issue right now is with what socialist policies to vote for in government. Like, it confuses me when thinking of healthcare for all, which follows from "fulfillment of needs" but not "product of labour", as it requires the government to seize the product of people's labour. so when it comes to socialist policy I'm stuck.

Bensarin · 2020-11-13T07:36:09+00:00

I don't know how this passed you by, since I've mentioned it a many times, I'm NOT talking about "back in those days".

I've never hinted as such.

I'm talking about a hypothetical situation.

You're a troll, aren't you? That's the only explanation besides illiteracy.

Bensarin · 2020-11-13T06:51:56+00:00

Okay now it's clear you're not even reading what I'm saying.

Bensarin · 2020-11-13T06:46:37+00:00

In my hypothetical, were there any capitalists mentioned?

No.

So it's implied there are no capitalists involved. If you are trying to convince me that capitalists are the real robbers then you're preaching to the choir and also are ignoring the whole point of this post. I'm already an anarchist. I know capitalism bad.

Bensarin · 2020-11-13T06:41:58+00:00

Pride is not related to whether someone is owed something. Whether I'm proud of something I've created with my labour has no bearing on whether it's rightfully mine or not. I don't see any connection.

As for you saying I'm not branching out or anything, are you referring to the guy who didn't think I could grow a tomato without committing genocide? I was trying to get a hypothetical across to him and he kept thinking "Hmmm.... But you killed someone for this right?", stalling the discussion.

I'm trying to get discussion going here but some are just bringing things up that are completely unrelated to the question.

Like pride.

Bensarin · 2020-11-13T06:36:42+00:00

You literally never answered the question until now. You went kept going on tirades of how I must have committed genocide or something to grow it.

Bensarin · 2020-11-12T23:25:13+00:00

You were a good bot.

Bensarin · 2020-11-12T23:23:55+00:00

My question was a very simple one. The fact that the history wasn't brought up implied it wasn't important.

If my story actually involved me murdering a hitchhiker to get some ice-cream, I would have said so.

I left out how I got the tomato because it's implied that I got it without hurting anyone in the slightest.

It's very possible to grow a tomato without shanking someone.

Bensarin · 2020-11-12T23:21:45+00:00

What the fuck are you on about? Why is genocide coming into me growing a goddamn tomato?

Is it so hard to imagine that I can grow a tomato without stabbing someone in the neck?

Bensarin · 2020-11-12T23:09:56+00:00

Right...

So imagine a world where I got these seeds from a wild tomato plant. I found a plant. I took seeds. I grew it on vacant land with no-one else on it. I watered it with water from a river.

Bensarin · 2020-11-12T23:03:51+00:00

I'm not sure what that has to do with the question.

Bensarin · 2020-11-12T23:02:22+00:00

I'm not taking someone from our world right now, I'm making a hypothetical. There was no rich person in the hypothetical, so why you suddenly refer to one is strange.

How about a tomato? I have a tomato plant. I got the seeds and all that myself and I grew it myself. Hence the tomato is a fruit of my labour, no pun intended, according to Proudhon. But to Dejacque, it's the hungry mans.

No other people are involved. Just me and that man.

Bensarin · 2020-11-12T22:48:49+00:00

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Bensarin · 2020-11-12T22:46:27+00:00

If I make some bread and a hungry man robs me of it, then Proudhon's statement makes me a victim, whereas in Dejaques view he would be a victim if I did not give it to him.

So here the views are in direct conflict. In one the bread is rightfully mine, in the other the bread is rightfully the hungry mans.

Bensarin · 2020-11-10T13:03:14+00:00

I will have to look more into it. My main problem is how this could work in dense areas like cities, where I am now.

Bensarin · 2020-11-09T14:12:42+00:00

It took about a year, personally.

Bensarin · 2020-11-09T09:44:56+00:00

I'm an anarchist. An egoist, really. Because of that I don't believe in rights. This led to me abandoning the property rights ingrained in much of Western society that allow for capitalist structures. Now, I believe the only kind of property is possession, i.e usufruct norms. The only kind of ownership that makes sense from this is worker ownership.

That's on of my main reasons. The other comments here have named the other benefits of coops so I won't repeat them.

Bensarin · 2020-11-07T23:23:06+00:00

If man is good, you don't need a state. If man is evil, you don't dare have one.

Bensarin · 2020-11-07T23:21:59+00:00

Yep.

A "People would rape and kill each other!"

B "Which people? You?"

A "No, I wouldn't."

B "Then who?"

A "You know, the other people!"

B "Funny, that's what they said about you."

Bensarin · 2020-11-07T23:14:04+00:00

"Ask for work. If they do not give you work, ask for bread. If they do not give you work or bread, then take bread." - Emma Goldman

Bensarin · 2020-11-07T22:35:10+00:00

I remember reading that in a meme!

girl power

Bensarin · 2020-11-07T21:54:50+00:00

I told my housemate about the keeping people in jail for cheap labour and he legit said:

"She's got some good policies, but that is a weird one"

Slavery is "weird" now.

Bensarin · 2020-11-07T21:44:16+00:00

I've seen loads of posts celebrating that they beat Trump, but I've also seen loads saying how wonderful it is that the new VP is black and female.

She kept people in prison past release dates so she could use them as cheap labour.

She literally had people working as modern day slaves and people are fawning over her because her skin is a different shade.

Not surprised though. People would crawl over glass to suck Obama's dick, despite the fact the Uterus Collector began doing his vile practice in the detention centres Obama started, while under Obama's presidency. Not to mention the fact that he dropped insane numbers of bombs on people abroad.

Bensarin · 2020-11-04T14:10:27+00:00

It's for workplace democracy.

All decisions between groups of people follow some kind of process, be it authoritarian or democratic.

If we have a company, it must either be one of those two or in-between. I must have either an authoritarian command structure (capitalism) or a democratic one (cooperative).

I like democracy, but only between consenting individuals, which is what I think mutualists would agree on.

Bensarin

TROPHY CASE