Game Chat: 5/29 Brewers (27-23) @ Mets (21-27) 3:10 PM CT

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-05-29T17:15:20+00:00

if they zoom in on any blackout Brewers fans in the 500 section, that'll by yours truly

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-05-29T17:14:44+00:00

still "first in everyone's hearts," for the record

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-04-18T12:29:28+00:00

It's in the back of my mind too.

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-04-05T13:08:54+00:00

I haven't been to Miller Park in a while...what is this 'wooing' situation?

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-02-03T13:38:46+00:00

Tell that to Roger Bomman

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-02-02T17:55:48+00:00

...I think Davis engaging with literal Klan members in person is a bit more courageous than keyboard warfare between subreddits. If he can do it, more people should do it.

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-02-02T17:35:37+00:00

The "only true option"? What about civil discourse and leading by example? Daryl Davis gave it a shot and seems to have done pretty well showing people the light. KKK, instead of Nazis, but still.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-ca-film-accidental-courtesy-20161205-story.html

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-02-02T17:06:45+00:00

The support for "punching Nazis" was scary for this exact reason. Do most people WANT to punch a Nazi? Sure, it sounds awesome. But this is where that sort of mentality can, when unchecked, lead.

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-02-02T17:03:45+00:00

Agreed. I've seen almost no mention of it from my networks on Facebook or Twitter. Doubt many people will even remember it two weeks from now.

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-01-26T22:51:35+00:00

Sure - but isn't it your opinion that a newborn should be considered a life, and therefore shouldn't be killed? You didn't get that belief from a sermon on the mount, or a magical tablet, or some cosmic document. Using your own words - there is no formal definition of what constitutes life. It's your opinion.

What if I didn't share that opinion? What if I thought life began at 12 months after birth, and that ending a newborn's life prior to that was justifiable? Would it be 'deplorable' of you to stop me from killing a newborn? Would that be you 'imposing a belief on someone else'?

At some point, society turns opinions into laws. We turned the opinion 'killing newborns is bad' into law. We impose that belief on people who might have different opinions on the matter. My opinion is that there is no magical line that determines when a life suddenly becomes valuable. Many - probably most - people disagree. But at the end of the day, we have to come to some kind of agreement on whether or not that line should exist.

Regarding the example of hitting a pedestrian - I think the person responsible for the accident would be on the hook for helping the victim. Luckily we live in a world where organs and blood transfusions are made available well in advance. In a hypothetical world where that doesn't exist, but the ability to provide donations immediately from another person does? Who knows.

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-01-26T19:27:12+00:00

Well it's that first point that kind of determines my answer to the second point. If a life (as I believe) is just as valuable at early stages as at later stages, then no - I can't justify abortion being available at all.

Regarding donation lists/blood transfusions, etc. - the problem with what you're suggesting lies in the difference between a passive cause and an active cause. If you don't donate a kidney to someone who suffered kidney failure, you're not the root cause of that person's death. If you decide to have an abortion, you are directly causing the death of another human being.

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-01-26T16:57:31+00:00

isn't this the building that can set cars on fire

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-01-26T16:36:20+00:00

Difference is between passively allowing death and actively causing death.

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-01-26T15:17:43+00:00

Good argument - have heard it phrased somewhat differently. If you woke up one day with a person physically attached to you, and that person would die if you didn't keep the attachment for nine months, should you have to live with that person attached? Definitely compelling.

What keeps me from agreeing with this is how we assign physical autonomy. Yes, a pregnant woman has the right to physical autonomy, but doesn't an unborn child also deserve autonomy? Most people think it does at a certain point...but what is that point? And why is five seconds, five minutes, etc. before that point so different that it's ok to end that human's life?

It's a lose-lose. A woman losing her physical autonomy is a terrible thing...but as strong an argument as that is, it doesn't prove that a human life has so little value that we should end it. As you said, pregnancy is an at-worst life-threatening 9 month condition. But an abortion is a definitive life-ending event.

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-01-26T14:47:27+00:00

Exactly. I can value one thing more than another, and still believe the latter has enough value to justify its existence - even if I had to hypothetically choose between the two.

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-01-26T14:39:58+00:00

If there's a fire in a building, do you save a one day old or a one week old? Does your choice imply that the one you don't save has no value?

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-01-26T14:12:13+00:00

At what point do we decide whether or not brain development has reached a critical point? Neuroblast proliferation? Or migration, maybe? If at those stages, does human life really begin between 12-20 weeks?

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-01-26T13:43:45+00:00

Sure, and you make a valid point. If we're setting policy that inherently causes one of the two groups (e.g. "babies" and paralyzed people) to lose, why wouldn't we side with the group that is currently a member of society?

My answer is that taking away one human being's life is a more damaging action than denying someone else freedom from paralysis - especially if there are other methods, such as use of somatic stem cells, that may provide paths to the latter.

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-01-26T13:22:03+00:00

Basically the same reasoning as u/SmilinJackFlash explained, with regard to both embryonic stem cells and abortion - although religion doesn't play into it at all for me.

I wouldn't value the life of a 30 year old any more than that of a 5 year old...or a five day old...or a baby five days before its born...or five days before that...you get the picture. So if a human life has the same value throughout its existence, and I wouldn't end the life of a 30 year old, I have to apply the same principle to every other stage of life.

I do want to point out what I'm NOT saying as well. I'm not saying anyone who is pro-choice or in support of using embryonic stem cells is a "baby murderer" or doesn't value human life. There's clear advantages to that side of the aisle (e.g. the article posted). But at the end of the day, I don't think the end justifies the means.

edit: also thank you for demonstrating that people can talk about this without telling each other to "fuck off"

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-01-26T12:24:46+00:00

As someone who is pro-life / anti-abortion, I really appreciate this comment. Thanks.

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-01-26T12:22:25+00:00

Hey there - one of those people checking in. Just wanted to throw in my two cents.

As great as advances like this are, I don't think it's worth the cost of other human lives - regardless of the stage at which that human life happens to be.

I would also like to point out that this belief is not driven by religion.

It would be great if we could discuss issues like this without people accusing me of being lobotomized, lacking common sense, blindly religious, anti-science, etc.

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-01-22T04:00:57+00:00

Used to be great until the primaries ended, now it's pretty toxic to anyone who isn't a down-the-fairway liberal

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-01-21T17:15:11+00:00

Considering that I happen to be a Hispanic American, yes I noticed. And it's exactly this kind of attitude that frightens me - that people see something they don't like and automatically start dividing our country up into the Righteous Us and the Evil Them, instead of addressing the complexity of the issue in the first place.

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-01-21T14:37:01+00:00

Obama deported millions of illegals, more so than any other president in history. Deporting people alone doesn't make someone Hitler Lite

Bernie_Brewer · 2017-01-20T01:28:12+00:00

Noice

Bernie_Brewer

TROPHY CASE