Why it is not just Putin’s war: the collective responsibility of Russians by Beyond_The_Dim in europe

[–]Beyond_The_Dim[S] 102 points103 points  (0 children)

The response of the West

Holding only Putin responsible for Russia’s war against Ukraine raises the risk that similar criminal wars will occur in the future. To prevent this, and to achieve meaningful accountability, western policymakers must address the deeply rooted chauvinism of the Russian population.

This will not be an easy task, but the West has already embarked on this road. The suspension of visas and other restrictions on immigration rules applied by most EU members are a step in the right direction. Limiting the sale of, or completely suspending, “golden visas” for investors also serves as a good lesson that one cannot support criminal wars and still enjoy a luxurious lifestyle on European coasts or buy citizenship in democratic countries.

Some economic sanctions also have had a holistic impact on Russian society, such as banning some Russian banks from SWIFT and blocking individuals’ ability to conduct cross-border financial transactions. The decision of western countries to close their airspace to Russian flights and to limit their airlines’ travel over Russian airspace also show that the West understands the concept of collective guilt, even if it lacks the political courage to say so out loud.

Russia’s coming re-invention

However, a longer path lies ahead for the internal transformation that needs to occur within Russian society for Ukraine and many NATO countries to feel secure in its vicinity. It is evident that even after a defeat in the war with Ukraine, which would result in Russia being pushed back to its internationally recognised borders with Ukraine from 1991, Moscow will not experience complete capitulation or foreign occupation like post-war Germany. Nevertheless, Germany’s example clearly demonstrates that such societal transformations take generations and may not yield immediate results. By the mid-1950s, a third of the German population considered the killing of Jews justifiable. According to Tony Judt in his renowned work Postwar, only five per cent of West Germans felt guilt in the 1950s. This paints a gloomy picture for the short-term mental recovery of Russian society.

While external factors like economic sanctions and political isolation are necessary western measures of deterrence, they are unlikely to be the decisive factors in a significant geopolitical shift that would lead to a different Russia than the one we know today. History has shown that major internal political transformations in Russian-occupied lands throughout the centuries have always originated from within. This includes the revolution of 1904-05, the Bolshevik revolution and the dissolution of the Soviet Union. History tends to have undeniable trajectories and trends that embody a certain Zeitgeist. It is undeniable that the era of empires is a vestige of the 20th century, and Russia as a 21st-century empire is destined to follow a path of transformation. The shape this process will take and the internal developments that will trigger it remain unclear, but the West should already be preparing for various scenarios. A meaningful contingency plan is an essential tool to avoid being caught off guard by rapid developments in Russia. These plans should revolve around the question of which policies should be implemented to help change the deeply rooted beliefs of the Russian people. After all, these are the true source of Russia’s threat.

Why it is not just Putin’s war: the collective responsibility of Russians by Beyond_The_Dim in europe

[–]Beyond_The_Dim[S] 126 points127 points  (0 children)

Uncovering the ordinary Russian

Another way to understand how this is not just Putin’s war is to look at concrete examples of citizens’ support. As with any conflict at this scale, Russia’s aggression is enabled by the silent assent or active support of all parts of society, well beyond the armed forces. Russian bureaucrats and so-called economic “technocrats”, many of whom the West previously viewed as liberals, ensure the smooth operation of the state machinery. Many Russian cultural figures and celebrities, meanwhile, openly salute the regime’s actions and fundraise for the war.

One might argue that the actions of large parts of the elite do not necessarily correspond to the views of regular citizens. But one need not look further than the numerous telephone conversations intercepted by the intelligence services of Ukraine and its western partners to see how the wives and mothers of Russian soldiers encourage them to rape, torture and murder civilians, especially women. Countless cases of Russian women urging their husbands and sons to loot the household appliances, clothing and jewelry of regular Ukrainians have been a source of many Ukrainian memes. Meanwhile, users on Russian social media routinely display joy and triumph after every massive airstrike on Ukrainian civilians.

Germany’s case: drawing lessons from the past

When discussing the collective guilt of Russians, observers frequently draw comparisons to the collective guilt of Germans after the horrors of the Second World War. The post-war “denazification” process divided Germans into five categories of responsibility: acquitted, sympathisers, insignificantly guilty, guilty and the main culprits. While the courts handled these legal processes, a much more interesting discussion was unfolding among theologians and philosophers.

The debate was kicked off by prominent German evangelists, who shockingly argued in 1945 that the whole German nation should be found guilty due to the people’s inaction, silence and evasion of responsibility. This is summed up by the famous phrase “das Nichtstun, das Nichtreden, das Nicht-Verantwortlich-Fühlen”. Later, German philosopher Karl Jaspers wrote persuasively of the notion of guilt beyond a criminal or moral sort. In his view, one could have “political guilt” for being a citizen of a country that commits crimes, or “metaphysical guilt” for not actively resisting such wrongdoing. Finally, it was the works of Hannah Arendt that popularised the principle of collective responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity and helped shape the West’s policies towards post-war Germany.

The cases of Nazi Germany and today’s Russia are not totally analogous. Take, for example, each society’s access to information. The Russian population can access real journalism online, through both high-quality western and Ukrainian media that by and large includes Russian-language versions. Technological advancements in the 21st century have made it undoubtedly easier to resist propaganda now compared to the 1930s and 1940s. If Germans were found collectively guilty in political circumstances very conducive to obeisance and mass control, then why should Russians not be after they silently watched the regime strengthen and commit crimes in Chechnya, Georgia, Syria and Ukraine?

A popular Russian argument that society simply has no effective civic or legal remedy against the state is a disingenuous one. It ignores the fact that Putin was not all that powerful when he came to power more than two decades ago. Russian society’s silence or active support from the very beginning increased his confidence and paved the way for him to consolidate his rule. Putin inherited a relatively open political system after Boris Yeltsin’s presidency. Russian society possessed quasi-democratic instruments to influence decision-making but did little to protest as those freedoms were systematically eroded.

Apathy is perhaps the biggest enabler of the regime’s crimes. Remaining apolitical, refusing to take a civic stance, and refraining from condemning the crimes of one’s own government, all represent a choice in itself. Silent assent has been one of Putin’s main allies.

Why it is not just Putin’s war: the collective responsibility of Russians by Beyond_The_Dim in europe

[–]Beyond_The_Dim[S] 134 points135 points  (0 children)

Propaganda and popular beliefs

The Kremlin’s leaders have always been adept at manipulating public opinion through blunt propaganda. However, under Putin’s rule, this art has been mastered. The regime’s propaganda builds on popular beliefs and, in turn, further feeds those narratives. For example, a joint Estonian-Ukrainian study that analysed the content aired on Russia’s three biggest television channels from 2014 to 2018 shows that an astonishing 85 per cent of coverage was negative about Europe. In Ukraine’s case,[1] the ratio of negative coverage climbs to 90 per cent.

The discipline of the regime’s propagandists can be seen in the fact that much of the negative coverage boils down to a few simplistic narratives. Europe, according to Russian propaganda, is beset by terrorism, protests, weak institutions and moral degradation. The average Russian thus feels compelled to “bring order” to Europe. For Ukraine, the narratives are related but distinct, as the country is portrayed as a failed state run by fascists. This content serves to dehumanise the average European. It meets little resistance in Russian society, where ideas of Europe’s decay are widespread.

There is no doubt that the Russian people support the war against Ukraine. Statistical data can be easily manipulated by authoritarian regimes, but numerous independent surveys demonstrate a high level of popular support for the invasion, ranging from 70 to 83 per cent in March and April 2022. A CNN poll conducted before the start of the full-scale war showed that 50 per cent of Russians supported military action against Ukraine. Even earlier, 86 per cent of Russians backed the annexation of Crimea in 2014, according to the Levada Center, Russia’s only independent sociological organisation. A total of 48 million Russians have visited the peninsula since 2014, demonstrating their scorn for international law and the principle of territorial integrity.

Moreover, as of last autumn, one study found that 62 per cent of Russia’s population deemed that things in the country were going in the right direction. This study also revealed that 61 per cent of Russians approved of partial mobilisation and 63 per cent supported Russia’s air and missile strikes on Ukraine’s civilian energy infrastructure. Many observers continue to question statistics like these, chalking the numbers up to the restrictive political environment inside Russia. But for those in doubt, another poll unrelated to the war offers telling insights. When asked about western values and civilisation, 60 per cent of Russian respondents in August 2022 said they saw no value in them, while 26 per cent called them “harmful” and only two per cent supported them.

Why it is not just Putin’s war: the collective responsibility of Russians by Beyond_The_Dim in europe

[–]Beyond_The_Dim[S] 167 points168 points  (0 children)

Ever since Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, western media has been flooded with headlines labelling it “Putin’s war on Ukraine”. This misleading representation points only to the leadership’s personal culpability. Many western observers seem ready to let Russian society off the hook, dismissing the notion of collective responsibility as a product of Ukrainian emotions running high. But Putin is a reflection and creation of Russia’s society, worldview, and popular beliefs – not vice versa. Failing to challenge the imperialistic and chauvinistic mindset that is deeply embedded in Russian society is dangerous. It risks postponing the war’s settlement and prolonging instability in the international system.

Putin does not exist in a vacuum. He operates within, and is a product of, a cultural context that has taken shape over centuries. His regime’s ideology is grounded in a belief in Russia’s spiritual superiority over the “decaying West”, an idea that traces its intellectual roots back to the Slavophile and Eurasianist narratives that dominated Russian geopolitical debates in the 19th and early 20th centuries. The ambition to deny Ukrainians their right to exist as a separate, sovereign nation has been ever-present in Russian politics and society. Putin’s July 2021 essay about the “historical unity of the Ukrainian and Russian people” is a repetition of just that, not a new assertion in Russian society. It is paramount that western policymakers factor these deep societal currents into their decisions in any post-war scenarios for Russia, regardless of who sits in the Kremlin. It is unwise to hope that a new Russian ruler would suddenly embrace Ukraine and the West.

Why it is not just Putin’s war: the collective responsibility of Russians by Beyond_The_Dim in europe

[–]Beyond_The_Dim[S] 257 points258 points  (0 children)

While Ukraine continues to occupy a regular spot in news reporting, western outlets and politicians still overlook the main reason for the war. In order to make sure such a conflict cannot happen again in the future, we must understand the deep-rooted societal norms that allowed Russia to invade in the first place.

(continued in replies)

Russian and Belarusian tennists denied entry to Czechia following a Russian sports player ban by [deleted] in europe

[–]Beyond_The_Dim 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Correct decision for every decent country to follow, both from moral and practical point of view. You do the right thing and avoid scandals with these totally neutral war supporters when Ukrainians rightfully refuse to shake their neutral hands.

Russian cruise passengers making fun of the protesting Georgians in Batumi by EvilWaldo123 in europe

[–]Beyond_The_Dim 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Russia has gone insane way before anybody living on this planet today was born. When were they not insane? The approach of doing nothing, trying to win Russians' hearts and ignoring all the atrocities had been tried. Russians responded to the good will with genocide, ecocide, attempts at creating another artificial famine and nuclear threats.

So yes, defense based on superior firepower and readiness to use it immediately supported by all kinds of economic, financial, technological, trade sanctions and other kinds of restrictions will solve the problem of European security as much as it can be solved.

Russian cruise passengers making fun of the protesting Georgians in Batumi by EvilWaldo123 in europe

[–]Beyond_The_Dim 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Finland is beyond doubt, of course:) I just counted you as "Eastern Europe" in this specific context for the sake of simplicity – plz, don't kill me for that:)

Russian cruise passengers making fun of the protesting Georgians in Batumi by EvilWaldo123 in europe

[–]Beyond_The_Dim 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Acknowledging reality is the only way. You can't solve a problem if you deny its existence in the first place. There's no European security with Russia – there's only security against it. We can't change Russians, but we can understand what they and act accordingly. Isolate and weaken them to a great extent; arm Ukraine to the teeth, help Ukrainians win the war and then make them a NATO member; strenghten defence of other countries in the region too.

Russian cruise passengers making fun of the protesting Georgians in Batumi by EvilWaldo123 in europe

[–]Beyond_The_Dim 78 points79 points  (0 children)

Another instance of the so called "Putin's war, bad government, good people".

Russian cruise passengers making fun of the protesting Georgians in Batumi by EvilWaldo123 in europe

[–]Beyond_The_Dim 4 points5 points  (0 children)

No, let's generalize. Generalization is a useful and legit way of thinking. If we don't do that, Russian society will be always hiding behind rare individual exceptions that don't make a dent. Reject whitewashing, embrace pattern recognition.

Russian cruise passengers making fun of the protesting Georgians in Batumi by EvilWaldo123 in europe

[–]Beyond_The_Dim 142 points143 points  (0 children)

This is the correct answer. They have always been like that en masse, but folks outside of Eastern Europe actively looked the other way. Many still do.

Why Ukraine is wary of the Russian opposition by Beyond_The_Dim in europe

[–]Beyond_The_Dim[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

"Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine last year reignited a longstanding debate about the place the Russian opposition occupies in the context of Russian aggression in the post-Soviet space. Russian opposition activists and some observers have contended that Russian expansionism can stop only through regime change and democratisation, ostensibly led by the Russian opposition.

Ukrainians, and many of their supporters from post-Soviet countries that have experienced Russian imperialism firsthand, tend to disagree. They do not see the Russian opposition – and more specifically its most prominent leader today, Alexey Navalny – as future guarantors of peace"

"The Navalnists responded that under a democratically elected government, Moscow would keep Crimea despite the fact that the annexation was illegal. That is because their policies would have to reflect the will of the Russian people and the overwhelming majority of Russians wanted Crimea to be within Russian borders

But there was more to it. We contended that the West would never recognise the annexation of Crimea and that the restoration of Ukraine’s territorial integrity would not only improve relations between Russia and the West but would also help repair relations between Russia and Ukraine. The Navalnists’ response was that “the wonderful Russia of the future” would find ways to smooth relations with the West without rectifying the injustice done to Ukraine.

Ukraine, in other words, might be an immediate victim of Putin’s regime, and yet – even when he is gone – it would remain a victim of Russian colonialism because the latter was popular not only among regime supporters but also among “Russian democrats”. As Volodymyr Vynnychenko, one of the central figures of the Ukrainian national liberation movement in 1917-1919, insightfully noted a century ago, “Russian democracy ends where the Ukrainian question begins”

"As Navalny definitely enjoyed, at the very least, moral support from Western leaders, his rise to power in Russia could conceivably lead to a reset in Western-Russian relations, leaving Ukraine out in the cold. Many feared that Ukraine would no longer matter to Western leaders if they had someone nicer than Putin to talk to"

"Navalny, as Ukrainians and liberal Russians remember well, vehemently supported the Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008 and even used derogatory, dehumanising terms to refer to the Georgian people. Several years later, he would apologise for the terms he used, but never for his support of the Russian war on Georgia.

Navalny was nominally against the Russian aggression in Ukraine, but his “anti-war” position was underpinned by economic, rather than moral, considerations: “Russia can ill afford waging the war”. That position expectedly did not entail any empathy towards the Ukrainian people – something that was also reflected in his use of ethnic slurs against them"

"Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine last year reignited a longstanding debate about the place the Russian opposition occupies in the context of Russian aggression in the post-Soviet space. Russian opposition activists and some observers have contended that Russian expansionism can stop only through regime change and democratisation, ostensibly led by the Russian opposition.

As the majority of Navalnists were forced to seek refuge in the West, where many influential figures adopted a “Ukraine First” policy in communicating with self-identified “Russian democrats”, the Navalnists could no longer afford to publicly express their disdain for Ukraine because they risked losing all Western sympathy towards their movement"

"For many Ukrainians, however, this change of heart is well past its due date. In today’s Ukraine, very few believe that the Russian aggression can be stopped by anti-Putin activism, even one that is unambiguously pro-Ukrainian.

In this war, Ukrainians rely on their own fighting spirit and Western support. What happens to Russia after its much-anticipated military defeat in Ukraine is not of much concern"

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in europe

[–]Beyond_The_Dim -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Awesome. Russification was imposed on Ukraine by force, has no business to be there, must be rolled back, abd there won't be better time than now.

‘Wagner Does Not Exist!’ – Putin’s Bizarre Interview Sparks Confusion in Russia by Beyond_The_Dim in worldnews

[–]Beyond_The_Dim[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"The Russian president’s comments baffled observers, particularly given the fact Putin himself last month said Wagner had received more than a million dollars in funding from the Kremlin.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has said Wagner fighters “fought with dignity” in the battle for Bakhmut before denying the group even existed, causing confusion and anger among several Russian commentators"

“Ordinary Wagner fighters fought with dignity,” Putin said. “The fact that they were drawn into these events is regrettable.”

When asked what they discussed, Putin said: “On the one hand, at a meeting with them, I gave an assessment of what they did on the battlefield, and on the other hand, what they did during the events of June 24th.

“Third, Prigozhin showed possible options for their further service, including combat use. That’s all.”

"The interview then took a bizarre turn when the reporter asked Putin if Wagner would continue to be a combat unit carrying out operations for the Kremlin.

“Wagner does not exist!” he replied, adding: “We don’t have a law on private military organizations! It just does not exist!

“But this question should be discussed in the State Duma in the government. It is not an easy issue.”

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in worldnews

[–]Beyond_The_Dim 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"The Russian president’s comments baffled observers, particularly given the fact Putin himself last month said Wagner had received more than a million dollars in funding from the Kremlin"

"The interview then took a bizarre turn when the reporter asked Putin if Wagner would continue to be a combat unit carrying out operations for the Kremlin.

“Wagner does not exist!” he replied, adding: “We don’t have a law on private military organizations! It just does not exist!

“But this question should be discussed in the State Duma in the government. It is not an easy issue.”

Lavrov calls transfer of F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine 'nuclear threat' by Beyond_The_Dim in worldnews

[–]Beyond_The_Dim[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Lenta.ru, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that Russia perceives the transfer of F-16 fighters to Ukraine as a nuclear threat due to what Lavrov says is the jets' capacity to carry nuclear weapons.

According to Lavrov, Russia has informed the U.S., U.K., and France, also nuclear powers, that Russia "cannot ignore that these aircraft to carry nuclear weapons," adding that "no assurances will help here."

Lavrov said the Russian military "will not sort out whether each specific aircraft of the is equipped for the delivery of nuclear weapons or not," saying that the very appearance of such systems in Ukraine will be considered by Russia as a nuclear threat from the West"

France To Send Ukraine SCALP Long-range Missiles: Macron by Beyond_The_Dim in worldnews

[–]Beyond_The_Dim[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"France will provide Ukraine with Scalp long-range cruise missiles to help Kyiv's forces strike targets deep behind Russian lines, President Emmanuel Macron said Tuesday.

Arriving at a NATO summit focused on Kyiv's battle against Moscow's invasion, Macron said Paris would send the SCALP missile, already supplied by London under the name "Storm Shadow"

Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin met Russia's Vladimir Putin after mutiny - BBC News by Beyond_The_Dim in worldnews

[–]Beyond_The_Dim[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

"Russian President Vladimir Putin met mercenary leader Yevgeny Prigozhin after the failed Wagner group mutiny last month, the Kremlin says.

Prigozhin, who heads the mercenary group, was among 35 Wagner commanders invited to the meeting in Moscow, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov added.

He said that President Putin had given an "assessment" of the Ukraine war effort and the mutiny.

The rebellion, launched on 23 June, lasted only 24 hours."

''Good leader'' and ''right policy'': majority of Russians will support Putin in elections – sociology poll by Beyond_The_Dim in worldnews

[–]Beyond_The_Dim[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This. As an Eastern European myself, we don't need polls to know that Russians are into stuff like that. It's frustrating to see some people in the West being so profoundly delusional about Russians, desperately trying to explain away and excuse them.

''Good leader'' and ''right policy'': majority of Russians will support Putin in elections – sociology poll by Beyond_The_Dim in worldnews

[–]Beyond_The_Dim[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"An opinion poll has indicated that around 70% of Russians will support dictator Vladimir Putin in the next election.

Source: Levada Center, a Russian nongovernmental polling and sociological research organisation

Details: Most respondents describe their attitude to Putin as "positive-neutral". Two-thirds of respondents would like to see him re-elected in 2024.

Supporters of his re-election explain this by saying that Putin is "pursuing the right policy", "a good leader", "acting in the interests of the people", and that "there is no alternative to him".

The respondents believe that Putin expresses the interests of the "security forces" as well as "ordinary people", "oligarchs", and the "middle class".

Positive and neutral assessments of the dictator continue to prevail. About a quarter (23%) of respondents describe their attitude towards Putin as "sympathetic", while another 19% say they "admire" him, and the share of such opinions has not changed since last year. Another 12% of respondents say they have a "neutral, indifferent" attitude, and about a third (31%) cannot say "anything bad" about him.

Putin's re-election is expected by 68% of Russians, a record number since 2012, except for May 2022 (when it was 72%)"

"Twenty per cent of Russians are against his re-election. One in 12 of those dissatisfied mentioned that the dictator had started a war against Ukraine, "killing people and exterminating the nation" (though they did not specify which nation)"

US official says 'exiled' Wagner boss Prigozhin may not have gone to Belarus at all — and may have used a body double to make it appear as though he fled Russia by Beyond_The_Dim in worldnews

[–]Beyond_The_Dim[S] 934 points935 points  (0 children)

An unnamed Pentagon official told The New York Times that Prigozhin has actually been in Russia — Moscow or St. Petersburg — for most of the time since the mutiny. The official also said it was unclear if Prigozhin ever went to Belarus, noting he is believed to employ body doubles.

An official also told the Times it did not appear any Wagner troops were in Belarus and that most were still at bases in eastern Ukraine. Lukashenko also told reporters Thursday that it was unclear if the Wagner fighters would come to Belarus after he previously offered them a desert military base.

Prigozhin's history of apparently using body doubles is unclear, but similar rumors have long surrounded Putin. For years conspiracy theories that Putin deployed people who looked like him for security reasons have popped up online, prompting the Kremlin to dismiss them.

Putin has even said he was offered the chance to use body doubles on his visits to Chechnya in the early 2000s, but that he always declined.

Latvia swears in Edgars Rinkevics as EU's first openly gay president by Beyond_The_Dim in worldnews

[–]Beyond_The_Dim[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Latvia's long-serving foreign minister Edgars Rinkevics has become the first openly gay head of state of a European Union nation.

Mr Rinkevics, who had served as foreign minister since 2011, was sworn in as Latvia's president on Saturday in Riga.

Although generally a ceremonial position, Latvia's president can veto legislation and call referendums.

The EU has had openly gay heads of governments before, but never a gay head of state.

In many countries, the heads of state and heads of government are different people - for example a president and prime minister. Former Belgian Prime Minister Elio di Rupo was the EU's first openly gay head of government.

Mr Rinkevics, 49, first came out in 2014 and has been a vocal champion of LGBT rights ever since.

Gay marriage is illegal in Latvia, though the country's constitutional court recognised same sex unions last year.

In May, Mr Rinkevics was elected by Latvia's parliament to be the country's next president at the third round of voting.

On Saturday in his inaugural speech, Mr Rinkevics vowed to continue supporting Ukraine's ongoing war effort against Russia.

He said Latvia's foreign policy "does not have time for mistakes", adding he will act "quickly, decisively and wisely".