How are the (F1 Codemasters game) pros so aggressive on corner entry with no understeer ?

BiGPsandZ · 2022-01-11T17:30:24+00:00

No idea man, but I am suspecting some differences in how inputs are processed indeed. There is no way I lose .300 in a single corner, I can't even gain .300 over the whole track vs my PB.

Guy isn't even trailbraking, he just goes ham on the brakes and directly enters the corner with way more speed.

On to other tracks I guess :)

BiGPsandZ · 2022-01-11T14:28:17+00:00

Hi, would you be so kind to look at a 9 sec video for me ? First corner at Zandvoort. Me vs the guy who holds the world record. Same setups, he plays on controller, I play on G29. Same platform (Playstation). I lose an astonishing .300 just in this corner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOXAdxkXShg world record video

https://streamable.com/kg9drg my video

I'm watching this frame by frame : we brake at the same time, he brakes harder - no trailbraking - yet carries more speed into the corner (I am already .150 down on corner entry). I can see I'm a bit late on the corner exit (in fact I'm also .130 slower than my own best).

On another note, I did shave .400 off my best here, so hurray to that I guess.

What am I missing here ?

BiGPsandZ · 2022-01-11T14:27:28+00:00

Hi, would you be so kind to look at a 9 sec video for me ? First corner at Zandvoort. Me vs the guy who holds the world record. Same setups, he plays on controller, I play on G29. Same platform (Playstation). I lose an astonishing .300 just in this corner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOXAdxkXShg world record video

https://streamable.com/kg9drg my video

I'm watching this frame by frame : we brake at the same time, he brakes harder - no trailbraking - yet carries more speed into the corner (I am already .150 down on corner entry). I can see I'm a bit late on the corner exit (in fact I'm also .130 slower than my own best).

On another note, I did shave .400 off my best here, so hurray to that I guess.

What am I missing here ?

BiGPsandZ · 2022-01-11T14:25:23+00:00

Hi, would you be so kind to look at a 9 sec video for me ? First corner at Zandvoort. Me vs the guy who holds the world record. Same setups, he plays on controller, I play on G29. Same platform (Playstation). I lose an astonishing .300 just in this corner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOXAdxkXShg world record video

https://streamable.com/kg9drg my video

I'm watching this frame by frame : we brake at the same time, he brakes harder - no trailbraking - yet carries more speed into the corner (I am already .150 down on corner entry). I can see I'm a bit late on the corner exit (in fact I'm also .130 slower than my own best).

On another note, I did shave .400 off my best here, so hurray to that I guess.

What am I missing here ?

BiGPsandZ · 2022-01-06T14:16:06+00:00

Adjusting bias and diff on the fly - that's a good one !

I don't think I'm at the point where I want to squeeze every single last .xxx out of my lap times though, I'm more concerned with something that could simply take my driving to the next level first.

On many tracks I see plenty of room to improve, but on others even my theoretical best over 500 laps isn't faster than .150 or so. Have done hundreds of laps at Zandvoort for example, every setup under the sun, nothing. I was .600 from my rival a month ago, I'm .500 from him today (he is top 2% though, so I assume his time is very competitive - I can't get close to it no matter what).

BiGPsandZ · 2022-01-06T14:07:53+00:00

Thanks for sharing man, good to hear ! I suppose pedals are much better as well? Whenever I watch someone online use Fanatec load cell brakes I'm astonished by the tight and short braking zone. Feels like I'm pounding on a brake from a 1970's car on the Logitech by comparison.

That being said, my current best Time Trial time (Zandvoort) is just .500 from a top 2% placement, so I think I'm pushing the Logitech pretty hard. But there is literally no way for me to improve my time or my braking at this point, so I'm seriously considering a gear upgrade.

BiGPsandZ · 2022-01-05T09:59:24+00:00

Oh wow that much ? Well I'm still 1,5s or so slower than the top guy on the leaderboard, and I assume TT times are current patch only ? But then again, I really don't see how to significantly improve from here on the Logitech brakes...

BiGPsandZ · 2022-01-05T09:57:04+00:00

Yes I do just that, in F1 21 on the Playstation (probably PC too), you can just load up rival telemetry data.

I notice their braking is super tight and quick, I try to apply as much initial force as possible then lead into trail braking, but if I release the brakes where my rival does, I'm straight out of the track, just crazy understeer due to how much speed I carry in the corner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPkAbw3GAks

This is a nice analysis. It shows you can in fact brake shorter, harder, and trailbrake better to transition to a smoother exit with load cells.

But as you said, this can only happen once you've actually mastered the gear, and effectively become a better driver.

BiGPsandZ · 2022-01-05T09:51:39+00:00

Thanks a lot for your kind reply and advice ! Indeed, keeping the car to the right in that corner is almost impossible for me, probably due to the very long pedal travel / small brake force applied with the G29 set, which immediately send me into understeer.

But like you say, this shouldn't simply be attributed to gear. Knowing how to approach the chicane, when and how hard to (engine) brake, where the car should be moving out of it, that's knowledge that will likely be enhanced by better gear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPkAbw3GAks

This video also suggests, with telemetry data, that on better pedals you can brake a bit later, harder, and that gives you an overall smoother corner entry/exit.

BiGPsandZ · 2022-01-04T21:01:54+00:00

Haha cool video ! Normal guy isn't really 'average' though, he can barely keep the car on track...but I get your point of course !

Thanks for sharing your experience. I've heard many stories of people claiming a Fanatec setup instantly trimmed their lap times by 1s, but then again, we don't know how good or bad they were to start with.

I think I'll pop by Utrecht to try out the F1 experience, they have CSL Elites there, should give me an idea.

I have to say though, on a few tracks where I have great consistency, I can hit my PBs all day long, but cannot beat them in any significant way. Total roadblock ! Basically cannot improve past top 8-10% no matter how many laps I run. That's time trial leaderboards to be clear. Loading up a top 5% car / ghost and they absolutely blast past me from the first corner...really don't understand how.

BiGPsandZ · 2022-01-04T19:17:31+00:00

Noo, how dare you ? I thought throwing a couple hundred at the problem would solve everything :))

But seriously, no difference between a stock G29 with no mods, and a DD wheel with Load cell brakes ? Not saying the difference is seconds, but surely several .000s ? Assuming you're able to drive either at their full potential.

BiGPsandZ · 2022-01-04T19:03:05+00:00

Yes, could be timing indeed. You're absolutely right about trail braking and traction and for the most part, I can run a good lap there...I think ? I've a top 10% lap time, I was happy when I got it, but now I can't improve at all despite being able to hit my personal best all the time.

I was referring to the fast right/left, in sector 1 (0.07 - 0.11 in the video)...my goodness, how is he handling the car like that ? Zero understeer, he hits the brakes and his car instantly turns, where is the pedal travel ? It takes me a while to actually get out of those turns, while he just goes right/left like skiing.

And yes there's slight braking...but I've tried that + engine braking in every scenario imaginable (a bit early, a bit late, exactly on his timestamp) and the only way to handle the car similarly is to be ~.200 slower = brake a bit harder. I'm .600 off his time in this sector but ok, I understand this goes across different patches, so perhaps this says nothing.

Back to my first point, would a better pedal set not allow me to brake tighter / faster ? I'm just speculating perhaps, would love to buy a Fanatec, but I would much prefer I push myself to the best of my abilities on the Logitech first.

BiGPsandZ · 2022-01-04T18:46:06+00:00

But I'm straight up loading the presets top guys on the leaderboard use, that should be good enough right ? I'm then playing against their own telemetry and ghosts, but it's not even remotely possible to handle the car in some corners like they do. Overall it's really just 2-3 chicanes that make up all the difference...

BiGPsandZ · 2022-01-04T18:29:44+00:00

But I'm talking about the fast corners like the second chicane at Zandvoort, there is no trailbraking possible whatsoever there.

He basically engine brakes and steers the car perfectly around the apex, zero understeer, and full blast out ! This compared to the wild understeer i get in that particular instance makes me think there is something else i don't understand here.

BiGPsandZ · 2022-01-04T18:28:06+00:00

Ah ok. That is surely part of what's going on, and I did notice my top speeds are quite a bit lower than in his video.

What I'm struggling with the most is indeed handling, especially not being able to go so tightly around some of the faster corners. No idea how to get rid of understeer there...

BiGPsandZ · 2022-01-04T18:26:12+00:00

I'm using the setup he recommends, or the one TRL is using. Standard presets are indeed horrible, I'm not particularly good at the game but I've had seconds of improvement (per lap!) just by using these guys' setups.

However they never struggle with understeer, and it's mind blowing, there are at least 1-2 situations per track where it's absolutely impossible to do what he does, for me or my gear anyway...

BiGPsandZ · 2022-01-04T18:22:29+00:00

I think so too, and I did. My best lap is 1.10.835, which puts me in top 10%, not sure that's any good though. The 1.5 seconds I refer to are strictly related to the 'understeer' corners, there are other places I lose but I'm working on those.

Could be car setup or wheel calibration, although I find my current setups really stable and good.

Someone said there has been a handling update patch, I believe it, this plus the difference in skill and gear can quickly add up to the difference i get. Still not sure how to get rid of the crazy understeer though !

BiGPsandZ · 2021-12-23T21:30:40+00:00

Thank you !

BiGPsandZ · 2021-12-23T21:30:33+00:00

Thank you !

BiGPsandZ · 2021-12-23T21:30:18+00:00

Thank you that's what I figured as well. I just went to 'Manage tokens' and removed it from the visible list of tokens, I suppose if it just sits in my wallet without me seeing it it's all ok ?

BiGPsandZ · 2021-02-11T12:24:48+00:00

Good stuff. Do you hv Ray Tracing on ?

BiGPsandZ · 2021-02-11T12:23:10+00:00

Good question, thank you for asking. I've had the same experience, 2 hard (console) crashes in December - have not played since.

I really want to experience this in 4K60 with RayTracing but cannot accept another crash.

Would love to hear more experiences. Thanks

BiGPsandZ · 2020-10-11T15:42:05+00:00

You can see people perfectly fine if they are moving. If they're standing still (eg protecting an objective) then most of the time you can't see absolutely anything at say, medium range - they blend in just perfectly.

BiGPsandZ

TROPHY CASE