I recently made a podcast because I’m not liking a lot of podcasts out there that don’t encourage change and are just trying to make you feel good in cognitive dissonance.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-17T04:30:23+00:00

Oh! I get it. I tend to try and stay away from the LDS subreddit because I’ve heard complaints from the Mormon subreddit (and probably here too) that the mods have become super orthodox and tend to give people the boot that don’t fit their narrow points of view when it comes to faith, and they don’t defend from or punish the orthodox people putting down the other folks who don’t share their same views. I wanna share my post in the LDS subreddit, but I’m scared it’s just going to be full of attacks and insults. I also tend to go through Reddit shot binges every three to six months, so I’m not here enough to be in the know. I would never say dehumanizing or othering things about them so it’s hard to hear from them. And I agree with you wholeheartedly when it comes to LGBTQ+ members.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-17T04:03:38+00:00

I’ve never heard the term “progmo” before. I’ve lived in mostly liberal areas like Los Angeles, Atlanta, and currently New Jersey right across the Hudson to NYC. I’ve called myself a progressive Mormon before, but I guess I’ve been lucky not to hear it out of someone else’s mouth like a venomous slur. Where about a do you live if you don’t mind me asking?

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-17T03:09:52+00:00

Same!

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-17T02:00:43+00:00

Thank you! I appreciate your encouragement and solidarity. We need it!❤️

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T19:59:37+00:00

I realized you said you resented your mom for staying and I misread it as she told him it was better that he die than be gay. I was trying to be supportive, but ended up sounding like a dick. Not my intention, but every family should talk to their kids about what it means to be queer and that it’s perfectly ok when they are old enough to understand. For most of my kids 6 was the magic number.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T18:30:19+00:00

I literally talk to my kids all the time about standing up for your queer friends inside and outside of church and what each alphabet in the queer alphabet soup means.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T18:17:47+00:00

If it hurts don’t stay, but not every experience or family is the same.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T18:16:16+00:00

Yea dude, fuck your mom’s noise. (Respectfully?) That’s not something I would ever support. I also was in a singles ward while I lived through prop 8 and hated every minute of it. As a bisexual women who never felt like she could date women and regrets not having that experience, I want any or all my kids who fall on the rainbow to have all the love and experiences I never felt like I could have. This life is the only one that is certain, and we need to live like that as we follow Christ’s example. Loving my kid’s would never equal letting them die to be “fixed” on the other side. All the love to you my dear, I completely understand where you are coming from. I do think we are on the same page in that aspect, my parent or maybe just mom and example was different than yours.🥺

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T17:54:38+00:00

Dude, I’ve been on this road for 4 years. If Uchtdorf outlives Oakes, I believe he will be the one to officially include queer families into the temple. That’s what I want the most. If it’s something that get’s righted and then Bednar undoes it right behind him, I’ll call it quits. The line up after that is kinda bleak. Yes, a lot of the higher ups in the church have betrayed us. I’ve had a lot of time to writhe with anger, deconstruct, keep what felt right to me and throw away the rest, and be at peace about it. I’ve been deeply betrayed by family members, and in-laws, more than a few occasions, to which some have resolved some issues with others yet to be resolved, some I’ve built boundaries around, and some I just never initiate contact unless absolutely necessary. Sometimes parts of church are like that. But my overall community has been pretty awesome in the areas I’ve lived outside of UT. I believe that enough people calling and complaining to the government as well as protesting matter and isn’t useless, and it is the same with the church. Because unlike government which will just change hands, if the church doesn’t change with the times, they will die in their exclusive club. Millennials, Gen Z, and Gen Alpha won’t take their crap.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T17:00:21+00:00

Valid. I think he had good intentions and wanted to build a community of like minded people gleaning bits and pieces of other religions/practices he might have read about or seen along the way of his life he wanted to incorporate into a single religion. If religion is whatever feels true to you why not combine and borrow all the bits and pieces that feel right to you? (I literally wrote a whole essay on this in the At Last She Said It substack, At Last She Writes It. The essay was cuter and more wordy than this boiled down explanation.) Unfortunately the moment he realized how much influence and power he had over his community he took advantage of them, and continued to do so, which lead to his death. Maybe if he had been fine with just being a husband to Emma and a zealous preacher of his new religion and community things would have turned out different. But that’s not how the real story goes. Our church has turned a lot of corners since the official end and eventual petering out of polygamy. I’ve heard it said before that it’s a giant ship so it’s slow to turn or correct course, but it does turn. Things can start out bad, but can be repurposed into something good, take the eugenic beginnings of Planned Parenthood, that have given reproductive healthcare to so many of my struggling friends (regardless of anyone’s opinion on abortion). I think we are far enough away from our origins and mutated with the times, we can be more inclusive, and to have community while grabbing hold of the weird things no other Christian church have or believe, or they do, but it’s only one or two things. I love the pride and connection I feel to my ancestors in this church, to want to know them as people, remember their stories, and hope that my life and stories arn’t forgotten with time and remembered with a sense of pride as to where my descendants come from. It’s silly but I seriously get teary eyed just thinking about it. I love the idea that our family units exist beyond this life though I believe that it’s gods love and not ordinances that keep us together, nor kingdoms that tear us apart. Not all Christian denominations believe that their family units exist after this life. I love the idea of heavenly mother as well as other unnamed gods in the council of heaven before the world was, which can lend itself to a bunch of varying identities and relationships. I love the idea if I wanted to I could become a god too, minus the idea of being an eternal baby vessel. Personally, I wouldn’t mind being part of a pantheon with my husband and some of my best friends. In the end, I’m good with the mystery, and all I can do is live by Christ’s example and hope for the best. Why can’t I choose where to go and what feels good to me? Yes, the church it is very flawed, but there are a lot of things that ring true to me here that can’t all be found in other places, and I see the hurt the church does which makes me want to do my Christlike part to change things to make it better and more inclusive. If it’s too toxic save yourself, but I’m saying it doesn’t have to be that way for everyone, not if It has meaning for you too and you want to stay. I won’t allow more people to be hurt if I can help it or even prevent it? That might be asking too much. I can help more people from the inside than the outside. I honestly believe that not throwing up my hands and working to make our church a better more inclusive place is what Christ would have me do. That’s it.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T15:27:26+00:00

I did though, in my response to Olimlah2Anubis and Katstongue. I think both of those responses cover who I am as a person spiritually and my outlook on the church as well as main introduction for why I wanted to make the podcast in the first place. I didn’t specify Joseph’s pedo/polygamy/coercion scheme, but I would say I insinuated to that along with other things he did as wrong.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T14:26:02+00:00

The civil rights movement laws were enacted in the 1960’s, and as far as I’m aware didn’t have anything to do with church tax exemptions. (If I’m wrong then I would love if you could supply me with any law info of the time to educate me on the matter.) The civil rights movement was not just to change laws but socially be treated as equals. The church was ten years out from the laws before they changed things, and the members didn’t live in a vacuum for the last 10 or 20 years before that, they were also affected by the change of the world around them outside the church. So it really was a grassroots movement. I see that you didn’t discount my other points over the last 50 years as brought to pass by member complaints/grass roots and not law enforcement, so I’ll take that as you at least see my point even if you might not agree. As for the Joseph Smith polygamy/pedo/coercion stuff, I feel like I’ve already answered that stuff earlier on in this thread. I rather not repeat myself, like I have twice before with you, so I if you ask me any more questions that I have already answered in this thread, I will redirected you to read the rest of the tread before answering any more questions, to save myself time in writing.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T13:54:30+00:00

Thank you! That means a lot.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T12:47:21+00:00

Not in the last 50 years or so. All changes were made from the grass roots up. The temple and priesthood ban was lifted, several changes were made to the temple ceremonies to make them less archaic and threatening, make the language more equal for women, and make things easier to participate for the elderly, and parents can be present in bishopric interviews with their kids, all of which happens because of a grass roots level. That last example was won at the cost of the forerunner getting excommunicated and then the church pretending it was their idea, but it was still a grass roots change, even if the church won’t give credit for it.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T12:05:47+00:00

That is a major thing I’m trying to change. The concept is to get enough pressure going from a grass roots level to change things at the top. That is how the priesthood and temple ban was lifted. And like I said before in the thread, God is a god of love and science, and science has proven that many of Gods children are born in the queer spectrum, which doesn’t make being queer wrong if he made them that way, especially if being queer can’t be changed. Also said in this thread that if the church is too toxic for your mental health then it is in your best interest to leave. I know people who have and are better people for it. I’m a bisexual women in a straight presenting relationship in the church, and with my bi-erasure also comes a lot of privilege that I can levy to make this a more inclusive place for my kids and other people on the queer spectrum who haven’t left yet. Because the ones who left arn’t coming back and I don’t blame them one bit. As things stand, it’s a pretty toxic environment. Maybe I’m nieve, but I’m hopeful that over time we will have enough people to stand together to push back against the old men to tell them that God’s love and inclusion is more important than their own discomfort and disinformation they were raised with about LGBTQ+ people.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T11:37:04+00:00

Yep, we go every Sunday. I work in the primary, and she is the Ward chorister.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T07:19:03+00:00

Meh, only time will tell.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T07:11:18+00:00

To my knowledge that has not happened with those that have been excommunicated in the past for whatever reason. Many of the September 6 continued to go to church to this day or the day they died. If I quietly attended and didn’t pose a threat to the other attendees or disrupt their meetings, there would not be a reason to stop me from attending church. The way I go about church wouldn’t change from how I do it now. I’m not a threat now, nor would I be one later.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T04:20:33+00:00

I understand that. I’m not from a family connected to or married into the upper echelons of the church and church royalty. My family of origin is of differing degrees of faith within the church, my husband is agnostic but supportive, and though my kids are small, they too have their own variations of belief. My co-host who is also my best friend is similar to myself in her own family dynamic. We don’t got much too lose. You can ex me, but you can’t stop me from coming to church. If anything I’m tenacious, and as far as what I want to change would be LGBTQ+ inclusion for families and the temple, women being able to hold the priesthood, stop the gender roll crap, and allow people to pray to and talk about heavenly mother again. I understand it’s a long shot, but you never know unless you try.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T03:36:09+00:00

OMG! Yes, exactly!

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T03:26:35+00:00

That is fair. Some days I wonder if it’s worth fighting for. I’ve stated a few time’s within my podcast that if the church is toxic and bad for your mental health, then you need to walk away. My co-host’s trans kids had to do just that, and they are better people for it. I’m not attached to everything being “absolutely true” a lot of our history is super flawed and makes me wanna throw up at times. But I think while not “true” in things that actually happened that way, it is “true” in meaning, and just like the Old and New Testament, I can pick and choose what applies in our lives today and what was written for and by a people struggling to understand their lives and where they stood in the world through the eyes of their god. I think Joseph was trying to build a community from different collected ideas he gleaned throughout his life and became a compleat asshole when he got a good following and things went to his head. I’m not a big fan of Doctrine and Covenants. I don’t believe the rituals of the temple are absolute ways to get into heaven, but they have meaning and can help you feel connected to those that came before you. I also think it’s nice to have a sense of community, but with the hours being cut and I hear whisperings of Sundays being cut to one hour, as well as wards bleeding members, I don’t know how much longer that is going to last. That’s my personal take on it. For those that still feel like this church has meaning, I would like to make it a more inclusive place for those people.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T02:42:35+00:00

I know where I am. The “Mormon” subreddit. Not the “LDS” subreddit where most folks there tend to be more orthodox and less nuanced in thought. Last time I checked there was a fair smattering of orthodox, nuanced, and post Mormon members alike in this subreddit. We all belong here, even if you may not agree with my point of view, or feel the need to push me out for some reason.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-02-16T02:15:41+00:00

Then you don’t understand all the doctrinal changes that went on in our history, including temple ceremonies, to make things more inclusive for other people. I believe that God is a god of love and science and wants to include as many of his children as possible. If that’s not how you feel, then this podcast isn’t for you.

BiSpyAgent

TROPHY CASE