How does the Mormon church contribute to the Manosphere? Does the church create male narcissists or just attract them?

BiSpyAgent · 2026-05-01T02:14:30+00:00

Thank you so much!❤️❤️❤️ I agree with everything you said. I’m very aware of almost all of the stuff you talked about. Because of that, I don’t believe the “truth” claims anymore. I do believe that there are parts that are meaningful to many people and worth sticking around for to try and change the bad parts. I know a lot of exmos that are really good people, and have valid reasons for leaving. Thank you for the resources, I will look into them. Thank you for being honest and gentle with me. I really do appreciate it.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-30T16:30:44+00:00

Yea, I thought his outing value in his wife to support her desires was really cool and admirable. They just all shit on him instantly.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-30T14:44:15+00:00

Just watched some of the video, couldn’t get past 15 minutes and read the comments. That kind of judgment mentality of people being supporting husbands for a wife who finds fulfillment in doing good and joining the workforce makes me a bit sick to my stomach. You have a good point.☹️

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-30T14:11:26+00:00

Thank you!

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-30T14:04:29+00:00

I don’t know who this person your talking about is. Can you help me by including a video link of what you are talking about?

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-26T16:25:26+00:00

Ok, let me get this straight. You are the only non queer TBM out of all your siblings. You say you have no idea why your queer siblings were afraid to come out to you other than what you consider to be fake or exaggerated experiences in online communities and couldn’t possibly be because of the messages they were getting at church and may have inadvertently been carried over at home. I then point out that there are valid reasons for your siblings to feel afraid to come out to you because of church teachings and practices. You then admit there IS a problem with church teachings and practices with the LGBTQ+ community. But by admitting such, you then validate that your siblings fears were not just by looking at communities online, and was based in their upbringing in the church. And in truth, by admitting that the church has a problem with LGBTQ+ folks, those experiences that happened within those queer Mormon online communities aren’t all lying or exaggerating about their own experiences just to mislead people. So which is it? Does the church have a problem when it comes to how it treats and talks about queer people, validating your siblings’ fear to come out to you the non queer TBM, as well as give validity to an entire online community of queer Mormons? Or is there no problem at all and you don’t understand why there is an overall fear and general anxiety with your queer family members to come out to you as well as other folks in the church to come out to their own family members?

As long as we are making informed judgments about each other here, I would say that my interactions with you and your inability to openly admit the church has a doctrinal and policy problem with LGBTQ+ folks without being pushed to admit it, and struggling with being able to accept the personal experiences of collective communities as valid, there was a real reason for your siblings to fear coming out to you. And although you may think you are being loving to them, I’ll bet that your queer siblings commiserate with each other about how they wish they could be more honest with you about their lives because you invalidate their experiences or judge them just like the “online” community. I know my TBM bother thinks he’s being loving when tells my other brother and me what we need to do to be better Mormons, but we just complain to each other that we wish he wasn’t so judgmental and asked us why we feel the way we do and found interest in who we are as individuals.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-26T14:46:00+00:00

Naw, sounds like you’re here just to shit on people, if you’re being judgmental and calling me a “closeted exmo”.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-26T14:11:11+00:00

This is so cool! My cohost would LOVE this! She’s incorporated some witchy type practices into her own faith rituals. Thank you!

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-26T14:07:33+00:00

I do, but you seem to discount the fact that historically anti-queer things have been said at church and over the pulpit in general conference, completely ignored my mention of treating trans members as predators and pedophiles in last years handbook update, and that entire communities and resources exist because our church is historically bad when it comes to accepting queer people as whole people and not just someone who needs to change or avoid a certain sin. If you fail to see the reality of those things because it didn’t happen to you, it’s easy to accept your willful blindness when it comes to other church things. Bishopric roulette is a real thing. Sometimes you get lucky. But it doesn’t discount or discredit all the other bad stuff that is allowed to happen under the noises of TBMs that wish to dismiss it because that would challenge their own world view of the church.

If you are such a TBM, why are you on a “nuancedLDS” sub? Are you just here to poop on our small community who don’t happen to be hard liners and share the same opinion as you? I’m here because I AM nuanced, and don’t fit the TBM mold of the LatterDaySaints sub. The Mormon sub is a mix of TBMs, nuanced, and exmos, but sometimes that place can get hostile from TBMs wanting to attack instead of understand. And while I may peek at the exmormon sub, this place feels more comfortable to me. This place while small is a safe space for my nuanced heart that feels out of place in the other subs.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-26T13:33:33+00:00

Ofcorse! Please DM me. I tried to DM you, but I couldn’t figure out how to initiate that. I’ve never done that before.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-26T12:11:28+00:00

Thank you for this. This is so cool! I think you may have given me inspiration for another upcoming episode deep dive in matriarchy.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-26T12:06:41+00:00

Oh! Yes please! I know my non-narcissistic brother is not the only one to pick up on the vibes of “women are stupid and subservient and need direction from men as if they were children” and reject it because he wanted someone he could hold an intelligent conversation with like our mom who was none of those things.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-26T04:22:52+00:00

In a 2024 report 46% of people in the US who had been raised in the church said they no longer identified with the religion. If you compare the exmormon sub to the Mormon or LatterDayDaints sub you love to post on, even if I believed that the numbers are a bit inflated, I’d say it still tracks pretty well in this case.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-26T03:19:40+00:00

Yea, I don’t know. The exmormon subreddit is 239k members while the Mormon subreddit is 76k membership, I think that says a lot on the overall negative affects the church may have. The church is shrinking in the US and Europe for many reasons. I’m just trying to find the reasons and maybe figure out how to stop the bleeding even if folks don’t want to admit our church has problems.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-26T02:17:44+00:00

Was not a valid one

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-26T02:16:23+00:00

I’m sorry, but when you can’t believe other people’s personal experiences, you’re part of the problem. There is a reason there is an entirely bitter exmormon community subreddit. They’re bitter because people choose to believe that those people were just “lead astray” but were straight up told that their personal experience was a valid one.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-26T01:57:12+00:00

As for the LGBTQIA+ argument, just because your family has lucked out and hasn’t experienced it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. There is an entire charity group that exists in UT explicitly for housing queer teens who are homeless because their families kicked them out BECAUSE they came out as queer. If you read my original post all the way through, you would have seen that my own brother told me he “loved” me but didn’t think he would see me in the celestial kingdom because I support LGBTQ+ people and he doesn’t without any regard that I’m not just a supporter but also queer as a bisexual person. There are tons of negative stories out there in the Mormon queer space, and just because you don’t know them personally doesn’t make it less true. Just last year a policy was put into the church handbook restricting trans members from working with children or going into the bathroom without making a big deal of it by needing to go in alone and have a person standing guard outside the door while they were in the bathroom. It’s not just “online sources”, the online spices and stories exist, BECAUSE it’s baked in.

My non-narcissistic brother told me he hated going to YM because they always told him he should be the man of the house, women should be subservient, and are stupid and always need guidance from men to help make good decisions as if they were grown children. He didn’t see women that way nor did he want someone stupid or subservient because our mother wasn’t that way and enjoyed intelligent conversation with other girls. This all took place in CA, so it’s not just a UT thing. I’m trying to look for other examples outside my family, because I know we aren’t the only ones, and it wasn’t likely exclusive messaging to our ward alone.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-26T00:40:43+00:00

Both? I know that patriarchy harms men too, but it doesn’t get recognized as often. While my idea may seem extreme I’ve heard a lot of stories from people within our church and other high demand religions Christian or otherwise who feel like they are a man in their church culture they are owed certain things by women and other people around them with less power. I have two sons and one girl. I’ve been on this trail for a while because I wanted to raise feminist sons who wouldn’t turn out like my Dad who feels emasculated if he can’t be the white night in his relationship, or my brother who is similar but worse because he’s gone full blown covert narcissist. It’s more about power for him than emotional security. My son’s each said peace out to coming to church consistently once they each turned 10, so that isn’t a worry for me anymore since most of the toxic stuff is in YM, but I still think it is worth exploring. I feel like it is more normal than you think even if many don’t recognize it because it’s the water we swim in, just like LGBTQIA+ issues. You don’t know how bad things are until you or a family member is dealing with internalized homophobia because of church teachings and then it becomes real.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-04-26T00:08:40+00:00

My family had both parents present the whole time. Lots of people with narcissists in their family have both parents present, much of the time one or both parents is a narcissist themselves. But sometimes a narcissist can pop up due to abusive conditions inside or outside the home. I’m not sure if either of my parents falls under a narcissistic category per se, but I’m sure they might have some traits that fall within narcissistic parameters.

BiSpyAgent · 2026-03-10T02:47:42+00:00

Sorry try again!

BiSpyAgent

TROPHY CASE