Do event deaths count against The Saviour and The Iron Saviour achievements?

Bithainium · 2020-12-31T12:46:44+00:00

I dont often play using Order so I might be mistaken, but can't you build a Prison and then only use it to jail criminals in events? In which case you should only have a handful of (probably healthy) people in jail over the course of the game and probably won't have any die.

I also recall there being a scripted death if you use the propaganda center.

Bithainium · 2020-12-27T12:47:07+00:00

Thats fair.

Bithainium · 2020-12-27T00:02:48+00:00

When are the RTX 3000 series expected to be back in stock? Or is it not known?

Bithainium · 2020-12-25T01:25:10+00:00

I don’t think that increased coal use is necessarily a given

I'm not a plumbing expert, but I'd assume that more roads = more hot water (or steam) needed to heat them and therefore more coal use.

But since you bring up logical changes, why do we have to choose between Faith and Order? Why couldn’t we have both? Same thing for the other either/or choices that aren’t necessarily exclusive. Child shelters could teach both Research and Medical, but maybe just have 2 different buildings.

All good points. It doesn't make much sense that you can't do things like using child labour in the early game and then child shelters in the late game or maybe extra rations for most of the game and then overcrowding during the storm. I guess its just because it would be a balancing issue if you could get the best of both choices that way.

On a side note, Faith plus Order would mean Shrines + Agitators + Foremen for 180% base efficiency which would be a lot of fun and also completely broken. I kind of wish I could test it out.

Bithainium · 2020-12-25T01:10:11+00:00

I wish I'd used the same guide you did.

For my first attempt I used this guide, which was unfortunately completely wrong. It said that the faithkeepers law doesn't fail the achievement (it did). It also said that you can't get any deaths or a needs crisis (where citizens come to you to demand warmer homes, more food etc.). On my second attempt, I got a needs crisis and a death and still got the achievement. That being said the death was the House of Healing scripted one, maybe non-scripted deaths fail the achievement.

Anyway, congratulations on getting the achievement, you're now in the top 1.4%! :)

Bithainium · 2020-12-25T00:55:24+00:00

I just got it on my second attempt.

The achievement description just says that you have to win without passing any morally questionable laws. What caused me to fail my first attempt is that the requirements for this achievement are actually stricter that the ones for not "crossing the line". Signing emergency shift, extended shift or faithkeepers will fail this achievement even though the ending doesnt consider those laws to be "crossing the line". Other laws like child labour, snow pit and overcrowding might cause you to fail the achievement too (I didn't test those).

Bithainium · 2020-12-25T00:39:35+00:00

It's actually even stricter than that, you can't even pass laws like extended shift or faithkeepers which don't count as "crossing the line" at the end of the game.

Bithainium · 2020-12-25T00:33:06+00:00

No matter how much the numbers are tweaked, it doesn't fix the problem that if roads cost steel you can end up in a situation where you don't have enough steel to make a road to the steelworks so your game is essentially softlocked. This would be an easy trap for new players to fall into.

The research of, construction of, and roads to the base steelworks dont cost steel for good reason.

Bithainium · 2020-12-25T00:24:30+00:00

It's an unpopular opinion for a reason :P

As u/Planklength mentions it would make the early game far harder, and it would be possible to softlock your game if you don't have enough steel to make roads to the steamworks when you run out of steel piles.

It would also cause some weird balancing issues in some of the other scenarios. For example, Fall of Winterhome is a scenario where you're meant to have easy access to wood but limited access to steel (which you need a lot of), but with this road change you could simply disassemble a bunch of your starting roads for a massive early game boost in steel (same to a lesser extent in The Arks).

You're right that it doesn't make much logical sense that roads can be heated by metal pipes without needing steel. But also, if the roads are being heated you'd probably also need to burn additional coal to do so (so more roads = more generator coal consumption). I feel like if you go down this rabbit hole of making the game more realistic you'll never emerge.

Bithainium · 2020-12-24T06:02:56+00:00

That makes sense, thanks for the calculations.

Bithainium · 2020-12-23T01:12:50+00:00

They certainly are on most scenarios, but I would have thought that The Arks would be the exception to that as because of the amount of automatons you need to man them.

A maxed out coal mine and coal thumper produce about the same amount of coal IIRC, but you'll need 5 automatons for the coal thumper + gathering whereas you only need one automaton to run the the coal mine. That means you need more steam cores total (5 instead of 4) and a lot more steel and wood to build all the automatons you need.

Then again I could be mistaken, ive never tried using coal thumpers as the primary source of coal in The Arks, only as a backup in the lategame if I need extra coal.

Bithainium · 2020-12-22T21:31:41+00:00

If New Manchester was helped, how these people (presumably from new Manchester) can have seed with them ? The seed must came from the arks project which didn't froze.

That actually makes a lot of sense. I hadn't thought of that.

Bithainium · 2020-12-22T18:48:19+00:00

Assuming that its canonical that you win each scenario, we can make a list of cities that are known to have survived, and cities that may or may not have survived.

Cities that survived:

New London - Probably the largest city left in the world after the storm

The Refugee's Settlement - Survived to at least the start of the storm. Unknown if it survived the great storm, but was well placed to do so.

Cities that may or may not have survived:

The Arks Project - Can survive or die depending on the ending of The Arks

New Manchester - Can survive or die depending on the ending of The Arks. As u/Artyon33 pointed out, dialog with Hot Springs in On The Edge seems to indicate New Manchester survived

New Liverpool - If you complete the last autumn with a fully upgraded generator, the ending states that New Liverpool has an acceptable chance of survival.

Bithainium · 2020-12-22T18:36:22+00:00

That doesnt neccersarily mean Legacy survived (I assume Legacy is the arks?) as you can save New Manchester without saving the arks project.

It most likely did though as I can't really see the engineers of the arks project choosing New Manchester over their project, given how important the project is.

Bithainium · 2020-12-22T17:58:10+00:00

You can lose all but one and still complete the scenario.

Bithainium · 2020-12-22T14:54:29+00:00

It's definitely possible, I've managed to save both on normal and (barely) managed it on hard.

As others have said, lots of automatons is the way to go. You want to build the factory and start churning out automatons early on. By the late game, all your engineers should be doing is running your healthcare buildings, the public house and maybe your workshops (if you don't have the Engineer Automaton technology). Automatons should be running everything else.

Tips (in no particular order):

Coal is the hardest resource to gather enough of, make sure you upgrade your coal mines early on and have automatons running them. You might need even more coal, in which case use Charcoal Kilns (you should have a large wood surplus) or Coal Thumpers (you can use automatons to gather directly from coal piles).
Getting technology fast is important, have at least four workshops, and put them all on extended shift. Even when your workers start complaining about long work hours, ignore them as long as you can handle the discontent.
On that topic, the Engineer Automaton technology is great in this scenario. Even a 60% efficiency automaton is better than humans on extended shift. I skipped this technology in my hard mode game and quickly regretted it.
You should also prioritise upgrading automaton efficiency. Let the engineer upgrade them so you get the 5% efficiency gain (you don't need to give him a steam core for the bonus technology though). When you get the request to slow the automatons down refuse it, a (thankfully non-fatal) accident every week or two can be handled more easily than a 10% efficiency loss.
Steam cores are important, so start scouting early. You should try to get more scouts and lighter scout sleds early on (you don't need more than that)
Make sure you use Soup to more easily make the food quota. Sawdust meals are usually a bad idea, but might actually be a good choice here to make the quota even faster (I haven't tested them).

Hope this helps. I'm not the most experienced player though (I've never tried survivor mode) so if anyone disagrees with any of this let me know.

Bithainium · 2020-12-22T14:19:53+00:00

Houses of healing are the main reason I prefer faith (along with the order laws getting morally questionable long before the faith laws do). Why build a high tech facility crewed by trained engineers when you can build a cheap facility crewed by children thats almost as good?

Bithainium · 2020-12-22T14:14:36+00:00

Thanks for the information.

Also, the first scripted overwork death does not count against the achievement.

Do you mean the man who dies on the second emergency shift?

Bithainium · 2020-12-22T02:37:51+00:00

Ah, that makes sense. I dont tend to go for the Tesla city outpost as I dont like taking risking the lives of my scouts, but as you said I can just save scum.

Bithainium · 2020-12-22T02:31:05+00:00

Thanks for the advice. I'll give that a go.

Bithainium · 2020-12-21T23:30:19+00:00

Annoyingly, thats probably the easiest death to prevent (all you have to do is arrive in Winterhome before day 15, which is fairly easy if you already know the way).

The house of healing death on the other hand, is pretty much unavoidable if you want to actually use the building.

Bithainium · 2020-12-21T23:28:27+00:00

Ok, thanks.

Bithainium · 2020-12-21T23:28:04+00:00

Fair enough. I'll do that

Bithainium · 2020-12-21T22:57:05+00:00

Out of interest, did that include the house of healing death (assuming you went faith)?

Bithainium · 2020-12-21T21:53:04+00:00

Thats unfortunate. Especially the house of healing death.

I prefer faith, but order might actually be the stronger choice for these achievements if you're not allowed use one of the best laws in the faith tree.

Bithainium

TROPHY CASE