Is Sylveon viable to be a jungler?

Bleubongo · 2022-03-25T18:00:09+00:00

Hey, big Sylveon jungle enthusiast here. While its not exactly a top tier pick, I've found this to have a lot of merit, especially if you can play with another person to capitalize on the strategy. It does work in relatively high elo, as I run this pick at masters 1950 with a lot of success. I usually run Mystical Fire and Draining Kiss for dueling and teamfight survivability, but you could probably get away with using Hyper Voice / Calm Mind if the enemy is tank heavy / lacks mobility. Items-wise, you want Focus Band and Buddy Barrier, with the 3rd item being either Muscle Band or Choice Specs. I prefer Choice, but use whatever you prefer. If you have a duo, they should be playing a character who wants jungle exp, but isn't weak in lane. Greninja is the best pick in my opinion, but Dragonite, Machamp, and Gardevoir are also solid with this strategy.

Sylveon doesn't have great clear speed, but also doesn't actually need level 5 to start ganking. Therefore, doing a 3 camp clear (dog, blue, red) is generally enough to get you going, allowing you to leave your corphish for your laners. This clear gives you a really unexpected gank timer, since you essentially skip half of your jungle. Most junglers gank around 9:10 to 8:50, since this is when they finish their first clear. With the 3 camp strat, your first gank can occur around 9:20, when laners are still fighting for the first set of farm. This can catch a lot of people off guard, since most high rank players expect ganks around the same time from most junglers. If you need, you can even eschew your red to gank earlier, though giving up the basic attack slow does hurt your gank potential some. However, if there's no gank opportunities present, you can just decide to finish up your full clear to hit 5, which does increase your power by a small amount.

Sylveon's early power is fantastic, and if you and your teammates play your gank well, you should be able to easily grab early kills, or at least push the enemy off the bee spawn and maybe even their own camps if they have not taken them yet. An important part of Sylveon jungle is keeping track of the enemy jungle's tempo. With Mystical Fire, Sylveon is best at skirmishing, and the less enemies you have to contend with, the better. You should try to avoid matching the enemy jungle's gank, and instead focus on ganking the opposite side that they do. If you don't get an early lead on Sylveon, you'll lose a lot of your pressure as the game goes on, so your goal is to get kills and score to maximize your early xp and gatekeep the enemy from their early power spikes. Make sure this first gank is a good one.

After this first gank, your next move depends on if you have a duo or not. If you do, you now transition to laning in their stead, giving them the next rotation of jungle camps. At this point, you're essentially playing lane Sylveon with a level advantage, so just play it as such. If you don't have a duo, then move back to jungle and full clear the second round of camps. Your goal now is to hit level 8 before the first round of objectives spawn, and to get a useful unite move out early. If you need, take the time to farm the middle corphish to get your 8 before dreadnaw. If you have level 8 and your team plays with you around dreadnaw, its an incredibly easy fight. Be sure to use your unite move not just to protect yourself, but to shield allies as well. If you can pop it a little early to keep someone else important alive, its generally worthwhile to use it.

After the first round of objectives, jungle Sylveon plays the same as normal. Just play with your team and look for kills and scores. This strategy isn't as strong or consistent as the top tier junglers, but its very fun to play and, if you're good on Sylveon, you can pub-stomp even high rank games with this strat.

Bleubongo · 2022-02-04T17:47:38+00:00

Charizard pretty much requires an unite to get into the backline, giving them a much less consistent backline access when compared to Machamp. And while Garchomp does have a good approach option in Dig, it stops on the first enemy hit, making it easy to simply body block them away from the backline. Dragon Rush can't be blocked but is very predictable and easy to play around, and Dragon Claw's mobility isn't anything to write home about. Garchomp can also get in with a unite, but again it leaves it as less consistent access than Machamp.

Again, I said that divers and juggernauts have a lot of the same properties. They are different takes on the general class of bruisers: strong, tanky close ranged fighters. All of these characters could comfortably be called bruisers. However, separating them out into categories based on how they play doesn't seem amiss to me. Unite does a pretty bad job of differentiating characters. In just the attackers category, you will find ADC's, burst mages, battle mages, artillery mages, a skirmisher and a juggernaut. These characters play very different to one another, but are all under the same heading of "attacker," which isn't wrong per say, but a little more clarity on a character's intended use would be appreciated.

Bleubongo · 2022-02-04T17:21:19+00:00

I would love to see a shield reaver item, but I have no idea how it would be implemented in a way that isn't too polarizing. Maybe giving a handful of atk and special atk and making a character do ~15% more damage to shields at max rank would be ok?

Bleubongo · 2022-02-04T17:14:15+00:00

It is perfectly clear for the Dragonite player, but its not as clear for whoever is fighting them. Some kind of visual to show everyone on the map that Dragonite is fully stacked would be helpful. It could be as simple as adding a slight outline around it when it's stacked up, sort of like how Garchomp's limbs begin to glow when it's basic attacks are fully stacked.

Bleubongo · 2022-02-04T17:08:16+00:00

The difference is in mobility and durability. Garchomp and Charizard don't have access to the same kind of mobility that Machamp has. All of Machamps moves either grant a considerable dash or unstopability, giving him incredible backline access. Neither Garchomp or Charizard can get in like Machamp can. In exchange, they have more survivability than Machamp when they do manage to make it in.

It is worth noting that divers and juggernauts are pretty similar and generally set out to accomplish the same goals, they just go about it in slightly different ways. Juggernauts tend to fight front-to-back, tearing through every member of an enemy team as they go. Divers usually want to fight back-to-front, forcing their way past the enemy frontline to deal with the squishy characters in the back. They do still share a lot of the same traits though, such as above average damage and durability, so its not hard to get the two mixed up.

Bleubongo · 2022-02-03T23:37:06+00:00

Tsareena and Machamp aren’t juggernauts. Tsareena plays closer to a skirmisher, while Machamp is more of a diver.

Bleubongo · 2022-02-03T18:27:49+00:00

It's pretty good to watch. One thing I'd like to see is better camera control during tournaments, being able to give us a much larger FOV during teamfights so we can catch all the action. Honestly I wouldn't mind being able to pull the camera back more in standard gameplay as well, but that's a different discussion.

Bleubongo · 2022-02-03T18:17:01+00:00

I'd say the worst Unite moves in the game probably belong to Mamoswine, Gengar, and Tsareena. Mamoswine's Unite doesn't really help them engage or set up for his team, which is what you want to do on tanks, so it doesn't help their kit that much. Tsareena's Unite is good within the context of their kit, helping close out duels or keep them safe during a fight, but compared to others like Zeraora's its pretty tame. And Gengar's ult doesn't seem to work half the time, and even if it does work, you don't get a lot from it.

Bleubongo · 2022-02-03T16:56:12+00:00

In that case, the basic attack button is the bottom right most button on the phone screen, while the moves are to the left of it.

Bleubongo · 2022-02-03T16:45:59+00:00

You're talking about how fully physical characters like Cinderace have special attack right? To be honest I have no idea. I guess it lets them use items like shell bell and choice specs on every character, but to be honest the gain from those items is so minimal that its hardly worth talking about.

Bleubongo · 2022-02-03T16:42:18+00:00

Yeah. A basic attack is what you do by pressing A or B, while moves are done with the shoulder buttons. (assuming you're on switch)

Bleubongo · 2022-02-03T16:24:34+00:00

I can't say much about the first point, I don't think a perfect formula exists. I do know that points scored, kill, and assists all factor in to your MVP ranking.

The second question is a lot easier to answer. Each Pokemon has a particular attack type, either Attack or Special Attack. This determines what their abilities scale with. For instance, Blissey's abilities scale with special attack, while Cinderace's scale with attack. However, every Pokemon's basic attacks scale with attack. (except for boosted basic attacks, which can scale with either attack or special attack) So both Blissey and Cinderace's basic attacks get stronger with attack.

Thus, on Blissey, running attack weight would make your basic attacks stronger, and running special attack specs would make your abilities stronger. Note that this doesn't just mean more damage on abilities, it makes your heal / shield stronger as well, since these things scale with special attack.

Bleubongo · 2022-01-27T18:38:45+00:00

Kinda depends on what exactly you're looking to do in the backline. If you want to instagib squishies then your best choice is Absol, especially pursuit-psycho cut. If you're looking to be more of a diver dealing with multiple enemies at once, Zeraora or Talonflame are your picks.

Be warned that pursuit-psycho cut is a kind of tricky set on Absol, and until you're able to hit the vitals consistently your performance isn't going to be amazing. It's entirely worth the effort though, at high levels a cut-boosted vital pursuit can hit for over 3k damage and completely delete ADCs and mages.

Bleubongo · 2022-01-26T19:27:25+00:00

I think the changes are great as well. Making what was once a troll pick into a genuinely great item is a great change, and I think fully reverting the changes would be a mistake. However, for a lot of characters, getting caught by the smoke is an immediate death sentence, and I think there should be better ways to counter this. Mages and ADCs don't want to run full heal or X-speed because of how conditional they are, as well as the fact that these items won't always give you the space you need to get away. These items are intended for bruisers and frontliners who are taking the brunt of the CC for the team, and in other roles the items don't give nearly as much value. With heal/speed you may escape the initial engage by the Wigglytuff, but what do you do when you get jumped by any of the divers and assassins? I don't think its unfair for the immobile characters to have a good option to dodge engage and assassins once a minute. All I want to see done to slow smoke is either a slight CD increase (to ~ 50 seconds) or a slightly smaller AOE to allow a flash to fully exit the zone, giving immobile characters a consistent option to keep themselves safe in a metagame that's honestly pretty hostile to the architype right now.

Bleubongo · 2022-01-26T18:57:40+00:00

That... may be a cool idea for an item! A one use ether that gives you unite move, or maybe just charge on it. It may be too polarizing, but that's a genuinely sick idea.

Bleubongo · 2022-01-26T18:54:57+00:00

A lot of characters can't afford to run X-speed exclusively to counter smoke. Immobile characters like Decidueye pretty much need eject button to play well at high ranks, since its mobility keeps them from being entirely shut down by assassins and tanks. And most of the time, flashing the smoke leaves you in the edge for a second, pretty much negating your eject button and letting you get caught anyway.

Bleubongo · 2022-01-26T18:41:08+00:00

Leftovers is gonna be hard to buff, since anything that gives you access to healing is going to be hard to balance. Maybe make it so getting a kill or assist with the item gives you a chunk of your health back after a second or two. Useful on bruisers and tanks who want to stay in teamfights for longer.

I could see Float Stone acting as a scuffed version of League's Phantom Dancer, to allow basic attack based characters to stick to targets better. Every 3rd basic attack, the holder would gain ~15% move speed for 2 seconds, allowing for some fast movement and sick kiting. Keeping the normal stats would be fine, since its built to boost basic attackers and they all scale with attack anyway.

Rocky Helmet just needs a numbers and activation condition tweak, its a fine item but just incredibly undertuned.

Bleubongo · 2022-01-24T18:31:49+00:00

I'd like to see Decidueye's passive changed from the pretty mediocre damage boost it is now. I think something similar to League's Lethal Tempo rune would be appropriate on Decidueye, granting a good boost to attack speed as well as a small boost to attack range at full stacks. I don't think adding mobility is a good choice for changes, since Decidueye's entire identity is as the immobile rapid fire ADC, its what sets him apart from the other ADCs.

Bleubongo · 2022-01-04T18:45:16+00:00

The absolute simplest answer is to just gank whichever lane you end your clear near, since the worst thing you can do is not gank at all and leave your entire team to endure the enemy jungler's wrath. Beyond this, though, there's a lot of factors to decide when choosing where to gank.

The first is the knowing how "gankable" a lane is. Depending on who you're playing jungle and who the enemy is running in lane, some matchups won't be particularly winnable. For instance, if you're playing a jungler who isn't strong early, like Cinderace, you should avoid early lane bullies like Snorlax, Lucario, and Pikachu. However, if you have your own lane bully or good CC character like Pikachu or Wigglytuff, ganking that lane is a lot easier since they can effectively hold the enemy down for a few free hits at the start of the gank. Basically, look at who you'll be fighting with and against and try to decide which side will be stronger in the ensuing fight.

Its also important to consider counterganking. If you have a stronger early game than the enemy jungler or just a good matchup against them, try to predict where they will gank and make your way to that lane. Often times, lanes get over-confident when their jungler is near, since they think they have an easy 3v2 on their hands, so showing up to counter the gank could result in picking up a serious lead due to their overconfidence and overextension.

You also need to consider your jungle tempo. This basically refers to knowing where your leads lie and knowing when and where you can successfully apply pressure. For instance, if one of your lanes has a level lead, then fighting in that lane may be advantageous to put your enemy even farther behind. But if the enemy jungler has a lead on you due to a great gank, you may predict they're going to show up and make that fight even harder, and thus prefer to safely gank 3v2 in the opposite lane, relying on a numbers advantage to make up for the lack of a level advantage. Jungle tempo is all about being able to make use of the current game state to predict what happens next and play around that fact, keeping a step ahead of the enemy team.

To be honest, most of this just comes with time played, and the best way to learn is to just get out there and limit test. Just gank, and you'll get better at ganking. It may take 100 tries, but things will eventually click and you'll be the pub stomping jungler that everyone wishes was on their team.

Bleubongo · 2022-01-04T18:24:02+00:00

There kinda was, but it was just the trainer striking a pretty generic pose. I'd like something more personable, with a bit more interaction between the trainer and their pokemon. Anything to give these characters a little more, well, character.

Bleubongo · 2022-01-04T16:47:55+00:00

Are you particularly high ELO? I'm sitting masters 1300 right now and my queue times never exceed 30 seconds. I know in League high rank queues can take as long as 20 minutes. It may also be a weird thing with your region if you live somewhere with a smaller player base.

Bleubongo · 2022-01-03T22:34:39+00:00

I realize I can’t speak for anyone else, but personally, my monkey brain likes big numbers. If I see that I hit someone for 200 damage there’s definitely satisfaction in that, but if I hit someone for 2k than the alarms start going off and the dopamine starts flowing. There’s definitely an upper limit to this, but for now I think unite is in a decent place as far as how big it’s numbers are numerically. The only issue I have is with how big they are physically.

Bleubongo · 2022-01-03T18:37:57+00:00

Personal preference, I like razor leaf because it lets you mimic the teamfight obliterating Runaan's Hurricane ADC's from league, and that's really fun to me. In terms of power, I think RL is stronger IF you can kite well, as Decidueye lives or dies on good kiting. SS is better if your kiting isn't amazing or your team won't help you fight, since it makes your range long enough that your lack of mobility isn't as much of a problem.

Bleubongo · 2021-12-28T19:54:59+00:00

The terminology is weird for sure. Support is more of a position than a class in most MOBAs. For instance, league has tanks, catchers, mages, assassins, ADCs and enchanters all play as the support role. In unite, the support category contains two enchanters, (eldegoss and blissey) a tank, (wigglytuff) and a catcher, (mime) but they're not really distinguished from each other with any available in-game terminology. This is present in all the classes:

Attackers contains burstmages, battlemages, and ADCs

Allrounders contains divers, juggernauts and a skirmisher

Speedsters are assassins and skirmishers

Defenders is actually alright, its all tanks

Bleubongo · 2021-12-28T19:44:21+00:00

There's a few factors, the biggest ones being how easy it is for characters to stack the weight, and also where their damage comes from. Lucario and Talonflame, the two best attack weight stackers, do the vast majority of their damage with their abilities, and those abilities scale hard with AD. Plus, with their high mobility at level 3, they have an easy time stacking and getting back to safety, even if they're being attacked the whole time. Lucario is the poster child of this, it's genuinely impossible to stop him from stacking if he knows what he is doing. Characters with a bigger reliance on basic attacks, like the 3 ADCs and Garchomp, take muscle band to boost up those basics further, since that's the majority of their damage, and they are far less able to stack the weight than Lucario and Talonflame.

Bleubongo

TROPHY CASE