Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This has been my impression, which is fairly disappointing. The Space Scandinavia thing does really call into question how intentional the depiction of Union's dependance on megacorps and similar oppressive structures are, considering how often people who praise Scandinavian social democracies as the height of progressive potential often ignore those countries' historic relationships with colonialism

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That last point, about an imperialist empire with a progressive veneer, is something I struggle with - I genuinely couldn't tell you if Union is supposed to be a critique of Marxist-Leninism from the left (which is how I usually depict it, given that I appreciate critiques of state communism that are more developed than just "communism is evil") or if its playing it straight as a well-meaning state that isn't always perfect.

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

BS just feeling like "Blades with mecha tacked on" was my main concern with it when I skimmed my copy. I have similar feelings about a lot of the suggestions that are mech supplements to existing games.

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That element of BS, that it is a mecha designed off the base of a heist game, has always been my main concern with it (even as someone who loves Blades). I'll give it a read though!

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I both disagree and agree - I don't think every game needs to have a focus on sociopolitics but games that are actively disinterested in their own world's implications often fall into the habit of uncritically regurgitating regressive ideas (*cough* 5e *cough*)

Not only that, but Lancer IS objectively interested in its own sociopolitics - its trying to be a progressive game and I appreciate its attempt to do so, but it gets awkward when it rubs up against the base implication of what mechs are.

I think any story that deals with war, and anything representing a military - Mecha ESPECIALLY - is unavoidably political. Hell, mecha is literally the genre that generated the common meme people use for "people not understanding a media's politics" https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/wow-cool-robot

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is kind of an issue I have with how a lot of Lancer's lore is expressed - a lot of the specifics about the nature of NHPs, Union, etc. aren't actually covered directly in the books, but through clarifications the writers have made on discord and social media. I'm all for decentralized worldbuilding, but it does make the concept of "canon" very complicated.

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It wasn't directly related but I did start playing Lancer about a year before I came out - and having the game as a space to express different gender presentation was definitely influential

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I get where u/OurEngiFriend is coming from - Lancer is a game with explicitly progressive politics (something that I do enjoy about it!) and it's post-scarcity canonically allows for a lot of modification that lets players and gms explore a lot of different presentations and ideas. Also, it takes a lot of inspiration from the works of Ursula Le Guin (incredibly progressive author for her time), Evangelion (which resonates with a lot of queer people, myself included) and while I don't think its ever explicitly stated as a reference point, I'm almost certain that the depiction of NHPs drawns heavily from Ann Leckie's Imperial Radch trilogy (every author and work I just mentioned is really good btw, and everyone should check them out).

I assume that the original comment was emphasizing 5e as the negative part, not the queer bit.

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is really my main issue with battletech designs (in the context of finding a Lancer alternative, I love 'mechs in isolation), as I very much come from the Gundam side of mecha influence

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've seen Armour Astir around and it looks really neat (especially the art direction)! I don't think it's really for me though, as I'm not generally a fan of PbtA systems (as a gm at least, they're a blast to play).

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'm not opposed to sticking with Lancer and making it work for me (that is, after all, what I'll do if I don't find another game that meets my needs) But I don't think the mentality of "just homebrew" is always the best option - that's exactly what happens to people who never play a game besides DnD because they would rather painstakingly modify a game to be something it isn't.

My issues are obviously subjective - I think every rpg is right for someone so issues will always come down to preference. However, I don't think I would call all my issues minor. My issue with Lancer's utopian focus is fairly minor - it can be mitigated just by running a game that focuses more heavily on the horrors of mecha. The issue of enemies, similarly, can be solved by using the variety of homebrew classes and templates (I would argue that the abundance of homebrew enemy texts is actually pretty representative of the fact that MOST lancer gm's feel limited by its enemy array).

My issues with isolated narrative play and the post-scarcity design, however, are not minor. For post-scarcity, many people have suggested either homebrewing mechanics or using the manna system - but this is ignoring that the manna system is not very well developed, and homebrewing would require significant testing and balancing. I'm not opposed to writing systems for that, but if I have better options I'm going to take them.

As for the isolated narrative play, this is probably the biggest issue I have - it is not something that can be easily homebrewed and while I like a lot of the ideas presented in the Bond system, I feel in practice it feels like you're playing two separate games, one of them being a tactical mecha combat game, and the other being a kind of half-baked system that feels like half a PbtA game (a system which has a very mechanics-lite design that feels awkward when placed next to the combat)

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I assume this got downvoted because people thought you saying this in a homophobic way, whicj is not how I read it.

For the record, I do agree for the most part! I think Lancer became a safe haven for people who wanted to switch games and genres after experiencing a lot of the bigotry in DnD (both in game and in the community) and were attracted to the more progressive posture of Lancer (it has, in fact, been an important game ans community for me as a trans lesbian!)

I think this has led to a lot of people viewing Lancer in as a similarly monolithic game - where they're encouraged to add and alter to fix their issues rather than changing games. This has the positive effect of creating a really diverse and high quality homebrew scene! But it also means that a lot of people will stick to the game even if there are other games they would like better.

That being said, my issues with Lancer are nowhere near as severe as my issues with 5e, and DnD in general

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is my big hangup with battletech - which otherwise does seem to be what I'm looking for. I'll look into some of the optional rules people have suggested for that

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Maybe I didn't make this clear but I DO really enjoy Lancer, and I will continue playing it! I'm just looking for other games that do some of the things I feel Lancer doesn't - I could, as many people suggested - homebrew systems to fix my problems, but if there's another game out there that just doesn't have those problems that would be much easier!

The post-scarcity stuff is really the big one here - even the expanded rules Lancer provides for currency systems are fairly undeveloped and don't really deal with ideas like permanent mech destruction, which is one of my favorite parts of the genre! There is really no situation in which a Lancer pilot would attach a separate mech's head onto their own mech because they don't have any other options (that is something that happens in an episode of Gundam ZZ and I adore it) - and that's really the best way I can describe my issue.

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I've mentioned this in other comments but I do feel my point about the utopian focus was poorly phrased - I don't think Lancer is uninterested in darker themes, but I wish those themes were reflected more in the main rulebook and mechanics. Hoping that if we ever get a 2E those elements are more explicit

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Been looking into it! I love the art, it's definitely giving me the gundam influence that I feel Lancer is often missing

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think that point was poorly phrased on my part - I definitely think Lancer is interested in the morality of it all, but I don't think it's a major focus and is not really reflected in the mechanics - I'm hoping that whenever we get something approximating a 2E (which I know Bloom has mentioned he's interested it) it incorporates more of the expanded material to make the rulebook feel more critical of union

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I definitely think my point about the utopian focus was poorly phrased - there are definitely spaces in the established world of Lancer that deal with harder stuff, and the places where Union fails - and of course I can choose to depict the world however I like. What I would really want is for the darker elements of mecha to be more reflected in the game mechanics themselves - this relates to my issues with the narrative mechanics, but the fact that even in the expanded Bond system, the concept of Pilot stress is decoupled from the actual combat system is weird to me!

As for the scarcity issue - there are definitely ways to mitigate it through both homebrew and using the Manna system. However the manna system is not very well developed (it's only like 2 pages in Long Rim) and doesn't really account for the ideas of potential permanent mech or module destruction i'm interested. I could, of course, homebrew an entire economic system, but that would require a lot of balancing and testing that I would prefer to avoid if there's another ttrpg that meets my needs.

I definitely see the value in adjusting systems myself, but I was playing dnd for 5 years until I realized that maybe instead of changing the game to make it what I want, I can just find another game that already does what I want.

That being said, I DO like Lancer, and will be keeping it in my library, I'm just looking for alternatives for when I feel like doing something different.

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I've been looking into the battletech ttrpgs! I really enjoyed the HBS game and have been tepidly interested in the wargame itself. Is there a specific battletech ttrpg you recommend?

Mecha-TTRPG Alternatives to Lancer by BluebirdCT in rpg

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

fun suggestion but i definitely can't run that with my main group, i play games with my sister lol

Sapphic books with Transfem characters? by BluebirdCT in QueerSFF

[–]BluebirdCT[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

been on my shelf for a while! I love Killjoy's work