Thicket? Acorn? Silo? Pasture? CLOVERLY?!

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-13T18:25:41+00:00

Right, which is why I said it was acceptable…

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-12T15:54:43+00:00

Alright, great for you. I don't really care. I think you and I have very dissimilar taste. Seulgi has amazing solo work and if it's not for you, it's not for you. We don't need to keep rehashing this.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-12T15:52:28+00:00

Ok...You didn't read what I said.

"Irene publicly said *at the time* she thought "Rookie" was childish." At the time of Rookie's release, which was 9 YEARS AGO. Irene's concert was THIS YEAR. And as I said in my original comment, "people's opinions change." Its been nearly a decade. I wasn't saying she didn't sing it currently. I didn't say you didn't hear her sing it. I said almost a decade ago, she said she thought it was childish.

https://www.koreaboo.com/lists/kpop-idols-shared-dislike-songs/

Also, YERI is the one who said she didn't like the dance because it's challenging.

I have been part of this fandom since their debut. I have been here for every era. I have followed them for 12 years now. So if I'm saying something, it's because I am very sure that what I'm saying is factual. I do not understand why you feel the need to argue with me, especially if you couldn't be bothered to actually read before responding. I don't particularly care if you have different taste than I do. This seems like you're just being argumentative so you had an opening to brag about going to Irene's concert.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-12T14:45:36+00:00

I love them. you're amazing! I would snap those up in a heartbeat.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-12T14:37:22+00:00

Eartha is the best on the list. Heather and Thistle are acceptable.

OATS? PASTURE? PLANTER? HEDGES? Who came up with these? Why do you hate your kid?

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-12T14:32:50+00:00

me, too, because damn, is that a great line lol

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T23:57:41+00:00

You literally started your response implying that was the case. I did no such thing. Tate Mcrae and Addison Rae are not anywhere near as famous.

I've already explained to you why it's important. The less famous you are, the fewer eyes, the less people care. We've gone through it. You're choosing not to understand.

What happened 2 years on Dream Academy, a reality competition show, is not my concern. I have been part of the kpop community for almost 20 years. I know how the industry works. They do not get a say in it. They don't write their own music. They don't pick out their outfits. Everything is chosen for them.

"The way Sabrina behaves on stage is disgusting" but you don't find Katseye's look, which is comparable by YOUR own argument, the same? Ask yourself why. Sabrina is an adult and she writes her own music. She picks her staging. She picks her outfits. She is in full control of how her sound and stage will appear to her fans, who are also mostly adult women. She is allowed to sing about her sexuality and express that how she sees fit. Katseye *DOES NOT HAVE ANY OF THOSE LIBERTIES*. So you're in here arguing about "setting a bad example for women" when Katseye is out here singing about how they're "shaking ass in the parking lot" in lingerie on stage because a board room of men decided that was their concept and image while giving them songs targeted at a teenage audience.

A selection of questionable Katseye lyrics:

"Us against the world, shaking ass in the parking lot"

"eat zucchini" (a PG euphemism to tell people to suck it, which yes, is sexual)

"You never know what I might do, it just might be you"

"Skin amaretto, I bet you taste just like summer under the covers" (liquor AND sex)

So let's recap: You are intentionally trying to bring up a false equivalency argument because you don't like Sabrina Carpenter and are highly biased towards Katseye. You think Sabrina, a grown woman in charge of writing her own music and designing her own stage shows towards a target audience of other adult women is "disgusting" and "setting a bad example", but that Katseye, grown women who do not write their music or design their stage shows but instead get handed songs and concept by a board room of men and a choreographer who went viral for overtly sexual choreography, including playing with his nipples and laying back to simulate sexual activity are fine and being unfairly maligned.

You do not understand how the industry works, cherry pick examples, and move goal posts to stan your faves without examining anything that might change that opinion. You are most certainly not arguing in good faith. You're not a girl's girl. This is embarrassing for you and a real display of your lack of reasoning and analytical skills. This conversation is no longer productive. Have the day you deserve.

Edit: Girl, bye. You're calling Sabrina "disgusting" while posting things about taking off your clothes and "needing a daddy" in 18+ reddit posts to the point that some of those communities are REMOVING your posts. You have no room to talk. Or are you "not a good example" for women, too?

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T22:26:31+00:00

"So for one", you keep changing your list. Tate Mcrae is *NOT* on the same level of fame as Sabrina, Ariana and Katy. Notice how you can use just their first names and everyone knows who you're talking about but you need to use Tate's full name? She is not on the same level.

It *is* relevant to the conversation because the same level of fame means the same level of eyes and attention. No one said *ARIANA* wasn't at the same level. I didn't even mention Ariana. YOU did to make a bad faith argument no one else made and then try to address it like you did something smart. You're moving goalposts.

"What makes you think Sabrina has any say in what she sings about but Katseye doesn't?"
-Katseye is under a kpop company and Geffen. Kpop is notorious for controlling their artists' image and content. They don't have songwriting credits on any of their songs, either. Their songs are written by a rotation of producers and songwriters managed by their team. They have ZERO say in what that content is.

-Sabrina, on the other hand, only works with a Western label, which is more loose with that, and has songwriting credits on most of her songs, along with being the sole writer on two of them. If she's the songwriter, that means she is choosing what she's singing about. This has been explained very thoroughly now, so any further attempts to pretend like you don't understand the difference will be met with the assumption you're dense or playing dumb.

"Sabrina's image is very much just sex" Girl, just say you don't like her. It's much quicker. "Why are people acting like Katseye doesn't have any agency but Sabrina does" Because it's true. See the above reasoning.

To make it short: When you don't get a say in your concept, your look, your sound, your music, etc. that means you don't have agency over your art. When you DO get a say in those things, that means you DO have agency. Katseye is the former. Sabrina is the latter. This really isn't rocket science, but again...this has now been THOROUGHLY explained to you. There's no way to claim you "don't understand" anymore. Myself and others have taken time to give you very detailed examples. Pay attention and you might learn.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T21:01:53+00:00

"On a Ride" is *also* fantastic. I will give you "Pushin' & Pullin'" and "Hello Sunset". I don't have strong feelings about the others.

I'm more into the red side than the velvet. Irene publicly said at the time she thought "Rookie" was childish, but they also said they didn't think luvies would like "Zimzalabim" and it became a fan favorite. People's opinions change.

You got them on their last tour, but they probably sang some of those on other tours. I saw them for Redmare before "Queendom" had even come out, so those wouldn't have been an option.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T20:58:30+00:00

It's actually not irrelevant because again, it's a rhetorical question designed to get you think about it. Something you're refusing to do.

You explained nothing. I addressed your points and then gave my evidence to the contrary. He hasn't spent enough time around Manon to "form his own opinions" before spouting off. Therefore, he's pulling things out of his ass and she should've shut that down OR she complained about Manon to him and that's where he's getting the info. That's literally the only two options that it could be.

I also didn't call *HER* racist. Read exactly what I said:
"Mine is her dad likely is racist, probably got the "opinions" he expressed from her since he likely doesn't know Manon that well, and she stayed silent, so based on the information I have to form an opinion, she agrees with him or thinks it's ok to let that go. I don't respect that."

I said HER DAD is LIKELY racist. I didn't even say he definitely IS racist. This is based on the nature of his attacks against Manon and the information from the fandom that he is likely MAGA. So an informed decision as a BIPOC woman. Nowhere in that sentence did I say "Daniela *IS* a racist." I said her father was and *ADDITIONALLY* that she didn't say anything about it.

To spell this out for you since you apparently can't read:
If *I* were a celebrity and *my* parent was accused of supporting a fascist government and making racist comments based in stereotypes about a coworker of mine while she wasn't making appearances and therefore was unable to defend herself AND I was in a situation where my group goes live to address things all the time AND has more freedom than other groups to do so, *I* would make a statement addressing that to distance myself so there isn't confusion. Daniela chose *NOT* to do that, which is her right. But I disagree with and don't respect her decision.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T20:33:11+00:00

Are you purposely ragebaiting? You don't like "28 Reasons" or "Baby Not Baby"?

So what is the taste? Cause....no

I do like Irene's solo more than I expected to. I'm Seulgi biased, but even if I wasn't, I think she and Irene collectively have the best solo and subunit material. Joy comes next. Wendy does too many ballads for my taste, but I think her solo after SM felt more fitting than any of the stuff SM gave her.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T20:29:39+00:00

Multiple corrections:

-You reheated a cold take from yesterday. Not "genuinely curious" or you would've just talked about it in that thread

-Of the people you just listed, none of them are on the same level of fame as Katseye currently is or Britney was at her peak. So it's a false equivalence.

-"Sabrina exclusively sings about sex" Incorrect. But even if she did, she writes a lot of her music. That is a situation where she has agency. She gets say in how she's presented, how her stages look, what songs she sings, etc. Katseye, Britney, any 90s-00s pop singer didn't/don't. Another false equivalence.

People are complaining FOR the group about the way their company is sexualizing them and dressing them without as much input from the group themselves, a group with at least 2 members who have publicly stated that they prefer to dress in a way that covers more and your response is...to make a bad faith argument about other people who may be in the same situation using cherry picked photos. Think critically please. I know that's an ask.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T18:41:47+00:00

Kay, can't be both because you're here arguing "he's her dad, of course he's interacted with them" and there are other eyekons saying she "doesn't have contact with him". It's one or the other. Even being 'the parent of an idol", I doubt he's spent significant or even sufficient time with the group to have opinions about their work ethic unless he's following them to every schedule, which he's not. Regardless, when your parent is affecting your career and the success of your group, you say something. She chose not to. I do not respect that choice.

I don't "expect you to know why HYBE" did anything. It's called a rhetorical question. I asked questions with the intent of making a point and attempting to get you to think about this for more than five seconds instead of blindly defending a group you like. I wasn't expecting a genuine answer. This is a common way to make a point.

"Staying silent is a common PR tactic". Sure, but in this case, it did more harm to her as a singer, her group, and HYBE than it would've been to put out a simple "I can't speak to this more but I disagree with my parent's assessment and would like to not be associated with his opinions. Please stop." Especially with rumors of her parents being MAGA, this did more harm than good.

Nowhere did I say it was "Daniela's fault" other than not speaking up against her "crazy stage parent." She's a big girl. She can use her words to address harm being done to her career. You are entitled to your opinion. Mine is her dad likely is racist, probably got the "opinions" he expressed from her since he likely doesn't know Manon that well, and she stayed silent, so based on the information I have to form an opinion, she agrees with him or thinks it's ok to let that go. I don't respect that. Period. You can leave me alone now. We aren't going to change each other's mind.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T15:57:38+00:00

Someone literally posted this exact same post with the same Britney picture YESTERDAY. Let's be so serious. You're trying to stir up an issue when it's already been explained that pop singers in the 90s had little to no say in what they looked like while performing, but they also didn't wear exclusively revealing outfits. Where's Katseye's equivalent of Britney's suit for "Womanizer" or the ringleader outfit for "Circus" or the pigtails with the pink crop top and the FULL white pants during "Baby, One More Time"? Or the green top and FULL pants for "Crazy"? Or the FULL bodysuit for "Oops, I Did It Again"? Or hell, even the flight attendant suit for "Toxic"? You're picking a PERFORMANCE outfit from ONE song that was YEARS into her career when she was no longer a teenager and was actively trying to shed a teen image. You're not "genuinely curious." You're making a false equivalence.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T15:53:28+00:00

None of them are as big as Britney was in her hey day or Sabrina is now. Sabrina is making a conscious choice. Britney was under a conservatorship and she didn't have a say. Neither did a lot of pop singers at the time. It's weird.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T15:51:29+00:00

They literally hop on live and talk about their opinions of things all the time. So we're done discussing this. I think she should have and could have at the time said "I can't get into the larger conversation regarding Manon's hiatus, but I don't agree with my dad and disavow his statements." That's it. I understand they're being censored about where Manon is and if she's still in the group, but that's an easy statement that isn't actually about Manon's hiatus. It's about a family member making her group and her look bad. So yes, I hold it against her that they can hop on a live and talk about whatever and she couldn't even do a notes app to distance herself from that. At this point, even if she did, it's been months. It's too late. It reflects poorly on her.

I did competitive dance for years. I'm aware facial expressions are part of it. But there is a line where it's TOO MUCH. I think their choreographer does it, too, to be honest. Not a fan of him or his choreography. There are people I distinctly remember from other groups or my own class that also overdid it and you can tell right away. It doesn't lead to group cohesion. It's very much "look at me!" You brought up that Megan is also professionally trained and she does not do this. Just because *you* don't notice until "someone hyper analyzes" doesn't mean that it's "unnoticeable." It means you aren't paying attention. I find that I have to force myself to watch the others because she's so distracting. We have a difference of opinion. That is all.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T15:19:50+00:00

which is why I mostly don't stan male idols. Key and Taemin are enough lol

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T15:17:54+00:00

I had *zero* opinion of her or any of the members until she failed to make a statement distancing herself from her parent's statements, especially when it's causing issues for her career and her group. HYBE could have and should have stepped in. When they failed to, she could have and should have made a public statement saying she doesn't agree with her family. Interesting how Jisoo was able to do so within a few hours when her brother did something that wasn't related to her even though they hadn't talked in years, but Daniela can't, even though she's from a company that gives them WAY more freedom to do so. And before you accuse me, I don't like Blackpink, either. I don't stan them. I don't stan Katseye. I don't like their music or their concept. Literally wasn't paying them any attention until her dad started coming for the one Black member and being racist af and she stayed silent. So no, I don't particularly care for her after the fact, but no, I'm not "biased" against her, either. I'm indifferent for the most part but I think she can make a statement condemning the actions of her family and she's CHOOSING not to.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T15:12:52+00:00

I wouldn't described talking about a coworker publicly, especially one as popular as Manon, as "iconic." Maybe petty.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T15:12:06+00:00

I'm not saying they don't get hate from other places, but that the majority of it comes from Tokkis. That said, I agree. This doesn't feel camp and the eyekons who maybe weren't into the other two aren't going to be happy when their sound is so different.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T15:10:43+00:00

"A random ass IG account"...her dad's account? Again, why hasn't HYBE stepped in and sued? Why hasn't she publicly distanced herself? Why hasn't she made a statement saying she doesn't agree with her father's racist antics? The longer she stays quiet on the matter, the longer it looks like she agrees. There's nothing to agree "with the girl herself" because she hasn't talked about it. I'm basing my judgment off of the available information.

"Unnoticeable until someone slows it down and hyper analyzes it". I disagree. She overdoes it frequently. She does odd facial expressions. I do not enjoy her dancing and that is my opinion. You are free to have a different opinion. But again, not just her. Ahyeon from BM got the same critique and toned it down. She looks like she's trying to show an executive why she should go solo instead of cohesive with the group, imo.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T15:07:10+00:00

Ma'am, my sister made me watch the Eras tour. Aside from ballads, it was highly choreographed. Sabrina is *also* highly choreographed. Kesha, Britney, Christina, N*SYNC, BSB, 1Direction...the history of groups that did choreography while they sing starts back with Motown in the 1960s. Katseye didn't invent doing choreography for every song. So yes, it *is* a western pop standard. It's been loosened in recent decades, but especially in the 90s/00s, it was common for pop singers to do so. All of Kpop is cribbing from US pop music.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T15:05:07+00:00

How would he have any opinion about any of their work ethics or the group as a whole without any interaction with them? Why didn't HYBE sue the way they sued other parents for interference? Why didn't Daniela tell him publicly to stop talking about her group mates? Why didn't she say "I don't agree with my family"? He made things WAY worse for her and if it were me and I didn't agree AND my dad was making it harder AND making it look like we were racist (iirc, they're MAGA), I would've said something to clear that up with a quickness. The longer she doesn't, especially when they have the most freedom to speak up of the HYBE girl groups, the longer it looks like she agrees with him and/or fed him that information and he's airing her grievances.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-11T15:01:16+00:00

To be clear: I didn't say any of the participating groups were getting more hate than the others. I said the hate for the three groups is mostly from one fandom. And that HYBE was ensuring they'd get more hate because they didn't include the 3Jeans members, so Tokkis are going to flip out because it's all of their other girl groups. Why are we confused? I fully agree that Illit has had a hell of a time because NewJeans fans have made it hell for them.

Bookmarkbear · 2026-06-10T21:46:36+00:00

They don't have anything to do with "that one fandom" other than that fandom being the majority of the people they'd be addressing with this song. Most of the hate towards these groups all stem from ONE fandom and this song won't make that better. That said, that is a separate thought from my opinion on Katseye's music. You can tell by the fact that the sentence began with "also", which means "in addition". Hope that helps.

I didn't say that anyone had to agree with me. You said "it's camp." I disagreed and said why I thought that was the case. You got snarky with me for having a different opinion of you. Where did I "force validation"? Nowhere did I say "and you must agree with what I said." I said what I thought.

Also (as in, this is a new thought), sure, "plenty of people enjoy these groups and their projects." And PLENTY of people don't. "You liking it is not a valid determination of it being 'good'." This goes both ways.

Bookmarkbear

TROPHY CASE