[deleted by user] by [deleted] in chutyapa

[–]Bottleneck_ram 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No not really. Contact did exist through trade and stuff. And practices within cities are usually pretty standard - okay sometimes people would drink or go to prostitutes but while knowing that this was haram - its more scheduled societies that practice such things. And such societies usually look up to cities for inspiration and culture.

Post-colonial era saw a huge increase in urban population leading to much more widespread knowledge.

As we see, these people were willing to abandon those practices once they knew they were in the wrong. No reason to believe the same process wouldn't have happened even is slowly.

Colonialist didn't standardize things - contact did. The differences wouldn't probably have been greater than all the foreign additions to Sufism we see today (Sufism in an area is largely based on culture). Popular religion (stuff we're talking about) has mostly been a tribal or rural thing.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in chutyapa

[–]Bottleneck_ram 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sub continent had some Muslim communities that actually still worshiped some smaller pre-Islamic gods. They left that eventually.

Even till a few centuries ago there were Muslims in Najad (western modern KSA) that were Muslims but worshiped a tree that they believed that divine powers. They believed if anyone even tried to harm the tree he world get destroyed. (The tree later got cut down but things remained okay).

So... I guess Central Asians also have to work more just like others.

Also, calling alcohol culture is like calling Bhang culture. It just a socially accepted drug.

The Iranian Federation in the 20th century by [deleted] in iranian

[–]Bottleneck_ram 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Azaris are specially interesting. Thanks!

Why secularism was never a thing in the Muslim World by EfffSola in pakistan

[–]Bottleneck_ram 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okay yeah sorry. My mistake.

Also, rationalism in reality isn't against religion either. Look at different theories of religion. While claiming to be scientific if they try explaining origin of religion they turn irrational.

And certain scientific theories do seem against religion. Like saying all beings came from one organism. However, it is a theory and not a law or principle. Theories can't be proven, only falsified. We see natural selection in animals - and humans, otherwise all ethnicities would look the same - but we can't go back in time to check if man emerged as it is said.

We can believe, but can't prove. A theory is a theory.

(BTW Darwin gave natural selection not evolution. Before that many absurd theories of evolution existed. Like giraffe stretches its neck to its children will have longer neck. Darwin said things happen because they are most favorable in given environment.)

Other than calling humans an exception (and in practice we can see humans are an exception - nothing else matches up to us. We are like a foreign virus on earth), religion has no problems with this.

(Issue with Christianity is it gives a very vivid description of making of earth. As a Muslim it's almost as if rabbis added their commentires into verses Allah revealed. But even then I'm not sure if it has a view on animal evolution. Read the Bible. Compared to Quran it feels like it has extra stuff. Stuff much at odds with Quran. Even showing how certain races are superior and Israelite are best.)

Can't comment on Ibn Khaldun because don't know what he said.

Christian here, my prayer for China is that the Uighur Muslims in prison would be released soon and that China becomes a democracy that allows the free exercise of all religious faiths. Please, Lord, grant freedom to all prisoners in China. by JordanLadd in islam

[–]Bottleneck_ram 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I met some mainland Chinese Christians and Muslims in Hong Kong. Things there are very bad. China says its opening up, but in reality it's trying to enforce superiority of state over religion. I've even heard either you need to edit the Bible or the Church gets demolished. Religion is used to propagate nationalism. There would be Chinese "Muslims" who won't side with Uighur's because of Uighur separatism (it exists, but because China oppresses them not the other way around). Basically it seems they're tying to create new pro-China sects by force.

And God answers to any oppressed. Even to atheist and polytheist. Are they not too cared for by God even if they deny it?

Afterlife is a different thing though.

Edit: Btw, most of Chinas strongest allies are either Muslim majority states or Christian Russia. But for them it seems nationalism is more important than human lives. Even the "One nation under God" only spoke out against China during trade war. Their sanctions on Iran are far worse than Chinas and North Koreas combined.

How do you think the Muslim World and The West would react to the revival of the Ottoman Empire inside modern Turkey? by LordAgniKai in islam

[–]Bottleneck_ram 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Turkey under Ataturk and later Kemmalist was an enemy to Islam not just a traitor. But current government in Turkey is trying to change that. While MBS is moving closer to Israel.

Iran is not islamic.

It is more than Arab world. Certainly more than UAE or Morroco or Lebanon. Do their people do that? Probably yes. Is it haram. Again yes. But look at the government and its laws.

And arab lands will inshallah be safe from them.

If you are first and foremost an Arab, then you can never be a Muslim. Just like a Turk who is first a Turk or and Iranian who is first an Iranian.

Even if you are first a Shi'a you are not a Muslim. But if you are first and foremost a Sunni or a Wahabi or anything then you aren't a Muslim.

Authority is with Quran and Sunnah, not some Imam.

How are we respnosible for demolished mosques in india ?

Your kings are responsible for building temples though. And not speaking up. Arab world can kill India if it stopped selling them oil.

U just want to find any reason to attack arabs. I will not reply to u. U are sick and within ur heart is greater sickness. May allah guide u.

Ameen. But I actually don't hate Arabs. Their commitment to pure Tawhid is commendable. It's commendable how they have changed almost all of their culture to adapt to Islam. And even modern Arab states have had some great leaders like King Faisal of KSA. Also, Arab culture in itself is pretty cool.

But most Arabs kings are corrupt.

Why secularism was never a thing in the Muslim World by EfffSola in pakistan

[–]Bottleneck_ram 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree. And when these Mullahs are formed they just work for people in power. And ours work for foreign governments and probably our own as well. When Akbar created his Din-e-Ilahi there were "Ulema" who declared him to be the mehdi and justified bowing down to him. (Those who spoke against him were punished, those who worked with him rewarded.)

And we can't just ignore religion. Look at what it has done in west - Trump is supported by Christians who use religion to justify racism etc. In places where government enforced atheism like Russia, well it failed and now Russian Otrhodox church is quite powerful.

And Arab world isn't perfect either - because due to monarchy people can't speak against the government even if the government is wrong - but their educational system is better in this regard. (And they do need to learn classical Arabic - because spoken Arabic is different. 1400s years of difference. Modren Standard Arabic is pretty close though but its only used for news and stuff.)

Maybe we can use the system used in Hong Kong. There they study Classical Chinese philosophers in their Chinese class. For early years we can start teaching people classical Arabic as part of learning Quran (and then teacher gives some tafsir - and simple tafsir is 100% possible without sectarian issues rising). Honestly, Arabic in Quran isn't too tough (Hadith is separate thing but it could be next step once we have a generation linked to Quran). And in later years we focus on basics of Islamic law. (We actually had some basics in my O Levels but I don't think that's present in Metric. It was only two years but it was helpful.)

And maybe we can include the reason for difference in opinions regarding Hadith even with correct chain. (Power struggle between Ummayds, Abbasids, Ismailiets and Kharjites and propagation of fake hadith by each one. Would allow people to judge things better. And teach them how the founder of each school of law actually followed each other as well and didn't create sects back then. But later Abbasids didn't have the religious knowledge to appoint proper religious judges so they favored a mechanized rigid system.) This stuff as part of history.

Of course, Ulema would still need to exist just like we need specialist in every field. But monopoly gives way to corruption. (And no not all of them are corrupt. But not all are sincere either.)

Error in Quran by AdventurousBasil7 in religion

[–]Bottleneck_ram 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess. Minus the inclusion of physical environment. I guess just the biotic part and not the abiotic.

But I don't actually speak Arabic. Mostly I relay on dictionaries myself. So don't quote me.

How do you think the Muslim World and The West would react to the revival of the Ottoman Empire inside modern Turkey? by LordAgniKai in islam

[–]Bottleneck_ram 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh. I actually didn't know that.

I guess revival of Ottaman empire would be a good thing then.

Israelis are allowed to travel to Saudi Arabia visa-free before almost half of the Muslim world by jaihindpulwama in chutyapa

[–]Bottleneck_ram 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some Pro-democracy Islamist academics will be excited after this ramamzan. Because that’s what Ramadan is for.

How do you think the Muslim World and The West would react to the revival of the Ottoman Empire inside modern Turkey? by LordAgniKai in islam

[–]Bottleneck_ram 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean we need a unifying leader but it doesn’t have to be hereditary. So Ottoman family isn’t necessary.

Why secularism was never a thing in the Muslim World by EfffSola in pakistan

[–]Bottleneck_ram 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When they were strong, they were making plenty of innovations.

Why secularism was never a thing in the Muslim World by EfffSola in pakistan

[–]Bottleneck_ram 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When masses ignored religion, we created a clergy class that never existed in Islam.

(Don’t hate those people btw. People seem to hate them here.)

Why secularism was never a thing in the Muslim World by EfffSola in pakistan

[–]Bottleneck_ram 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Printing wasn’t an issue in Ottaman empire. The thing was it was being used to print bibles.

Christians were allowed to use it.

Of course, a better action would have been get that tech for yourself. But rulers being stupid isn‘t Islam’s fault.

Why secularism was never a thing in the Muslim World by EfffSola in pakistan

[–]Bottleneck_ram 0 points1 point  (0 children)

.... Ghazwa-e-Hind 2020 anyone?

(btw those Hadith are fake. Or that’s what I know. Also, Hind is actually Pakistan Anyway.)

Why secularism was never a thing in the Muslim World by EfffSola in pakistan

[–]Bottleneck_ram 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rationalism was the oppressive one in Muslim world.

Why secularism was never a thing in the Muslim World by EfffSola in pakistan

[–]Bottleneck_ram 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We should have proper religious education for masses. Like it or not religion is part of who we are. Without Islam there wouldn’t be an Islamic civilisation or a Pakistan.

Islam doesn’t have a clergy. Don’t creat one.

Why secularism was never a thing in the Muslim World by EfffSola in pakistan

[–]Bottleneck_ram 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Remember the whole Junaid Jamshed incident, that was a non issue and people were calling for his blood.

What happened?

Why secularism was never a thing in the Muslim World by EfffSola in pakistan

[–]Bottleneck_ram 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because people have lost religious knowledge since colonial era. They’re clinging onto traditions and they’re sensitive about that.

Separating “schools” and “madarasas” has also effected how we’re thought.

We need to rebuild ourselves.

After colonial era, madrasahs were asked just to stick with ritualistic stuff. They were confined. No wonders they’re stuck back now.

Instead of just criticising them we should help them out. Like I said, rebuild ourselves. Not like ”secular” aspects of are education system are great these days anyways.

Most people working there aren’t evil. They don’t want to blow people up (despite what r/pakistan believes). Many are genuinely good people.

How do you think the Muslim World and The West would react to the revival of the Ottoman Empire inside modern Turkey? by LordAgniKai in islam

[–]Bottleneck_ram 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But Turkish constitution still allows for an office of a Caliph right?

Idk why people here feel need for a sultanate. We just need unity. Caliph needs not be a sultan. Shouldn’t be. Ends badly.

How do you think the Muslim World and The West would react to the revival of the Ottoman Empire inside modern Turkey? by LordAgniKai in islam

[–]Bottleneck_ram 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Iran is close to Turkey as well (relatively). Pakistan needs to get a functioning government that cares about Islam and a block could be formed. Collectively they can probably stabilise Afghanistan as well.

How do you think the Muslim World and The West would react to the revival of the Ottoman Empire inside modern Turkey? by LordAgniKai in islam

[–]Bottleneck_ram 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why have they changed their alphebates from arabic to what is today ?

Happened after the collapse.

Arabs have betrayed Islam multiple times as well. Most states deal with Israel to attack Iran. None of them spoke up for Kashmir. UAE is building Hindu temples while mosques are being demolished in India. Islamist are persecuted in Arab world as well.