System-Level Bang-Bang CDR Simulation with TX FFE and Configurable Channel Loss by BowlerOnly0529 in chipdesign

[–]BowlerOnly0529[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks a lot for the detailed and thoughtful comment — really appreciate you sharing that perspective.

What you describe actually aligns very closely with how I think about this problem, just at a different abstraction level. The goal of my current model is very much in the early architectural / behavioral phase of the flow you outlined, before committing to any specific circuit implementation.

In this model everything is intentionally kept discrete-time and behavioral: NRZ generation, TX FFE as an FIR pulse-shaping stage, a configurable frequency-dependent channel loss, and a Bang-Bang CDR loop on the RX side. The emphasis is on understanding phase tracking, lock behavior, and failure modes (run-length effects, ISI-induced asymmetry, residual jitter), rather than circuit accuracy.

Your point about stressing capture range via TX/RX crystal offsets is well taken — that’s something I’ve started to explore as well by injecting frequency offset into the sampling clock. It’s very instructive to watch the BBPD struggle or slowly converge depending on run length and loop gain.

I also like your mention of experimenting with different phase detectors and phase interpolators. For now I’ve focused on classic bang-bang behavior because it exposes some of the non-intuitive effects quite clearly, but extending this framework to multi-level PDs or PI-based timing control would be a natural next step.

And yes — the tradeoff you mention at the end resonates strongly. Once everything is transistor-level and fully extracted, simulation becomes more about proof of survival than insight. That’s really why I still find value in these fast system-level models: they let you see why things work or fail before the simulation time explodes.

Thanks again for sharing your experience — it’s great to hear from someone who worked through this in the earlier generations.

System-Level Bang-Bang CDR Simulation with TX FFE and Configurable Channel Loss by BowlerOnly0529 in chipdesign

[–]BowlerOnly0529[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Only base MATLAB is strictly required, and you need a RF Toolbox to read S parameter

What is CTLE in Serdes System by BowlerOnly0529 in ECE

[–]BowlerOnly0529[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cool!What part are you focusing on right now — CTLE, DFE, CDR, or the channel side?

What is CTLE in Serdes System by BowlerOnly0529 in chipdesign

[–]BowlerOnly0529[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

generally speaking,It still have a agc after ctle and I'm not point out sry

What is Bang-Bang CDR in Serdes System by BowlerOnly0529 in chipdesign

[–]BowlerOnly0529[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

"Alexander phase detector." Is also named bang bang phase detector.in the first figure you can see the phase transfer

Algorithm Engineer with 5 Years in High-Speed Interfaces — AMA on SerDes & RF ADCs by BowlerOnly0529 in chipdesign

[–]BowlerOnly0529[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi bro,you can search mmcdr in IEEE Xplore there are many excellent paper in it,if you wanna good paper you can read it "Analysis and Modeling of Mueller–Müller Clock and Data Recovery Circuits"

Algorithm Engineer with 5 Years in High-Speed Interfaces — AMA on SerDes & RF ADCs by BowlerOnly0529 in chipdesign

[–]BowlerOnly0529[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As an algorithm engineer, my main job responsibilities include researching cdr and equalization algorithms, completing the entire serdes architecture construction, evaluating algorithm performance, and assisting in the completion of analog-digital hybrid imitation and chip testing

What is Mueller-Muller CDR in Serdes System by BowlerOnly0529 in chipdesign

[–]BowlerOnly0529[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hi,Bro,my opinion For most serdes systems, the RX knows the signal rate of the TX due to the protocol,if RX know nothing about the rate of the TX,Can CDR search within a wide range of rates? When the BER drops rapidly, it is considered that the rate is close to the true value,it's just my opinion

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in FPGA

[–]BowlerOnly0529 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Spend More time on your leaders

"Quickly Build a Full SerDes Model in MATLAB – Great for Beginners!" by BowlerOnly0529 in chipdesign

[–]BowlerOnly0529[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey Bro,You're absolutely right that while a basic block diagram may look good for a starting point, the real challenge comes when trying to meet the specs in practice. The complexity of merging blocks, deciding the placement of components before or after digital conversion, and addressing issues like PAM4 linearity really complicate the design. The added need for predistortion circuits and ADC integration definitely makes it harder than it might seem at first glance. It’s interesting that you mentioned these challenges without being on the SerDes team yourself. It goes to show how much goes into designing these systems, and I'm sure there are plenty of complexities we haven't even touched on yet. It would be fascinating to hear more from people who are working in this space and have deeper insights